Nevada Estate Planning, Trusts and Out-of-State Property, with Robert Tzall

0:00 Hey good afternoon it's Bill Gross, The LA Probate Expert and this is our thursday ProbateWeekly.com we get together for thursday 4 p.m pacific 7 pm eastern and all the times in between and on either side to talk about all things probate real estate i'm a probate real estate focused real estate agent in los angeles california and i have a national team of experts we just opened this last month oh there's our guest we just opened in florida we've been in georgia we're in nine counties in california and adding more all the time and so we interview attorneys from around the country vendors from the country to try to help us i think on one hand it's great to learn about specifics in other venues it's also i think there's certain what i've learned interviewing now attorneys in about i think 10 states so far that there's certain common principles in all of them related to the business how attorneys and realtors work together or don't work together effectively and how we should work better and so i'm really excited to have today i see i just i muted him i think rob hey how you doing good how are you good so you know i look for i got i've been getting as a real estate agent and running this particular program regularly i get requests regularly for las vegas attorneys because people move from california to las vegas maybe they still own property here or their own property there or their parents own property one or the other and i started reaching out to friends and family for attorneys in las vegas and it turns out that one of i would say close friends before they left us but moved from los angeles to las vegas and his wife and Rob Tzall have been friends of ours for a while moved las vegas he's been a practicing attorney in family law and probate and estate law for a while so i'm invited to join us today rob say hi everybody great to be here so just a little quick background where did you grow up where are you from originally and how did you get into law school and become an attorney so i'm still not sure how i got into law school exactly but i did get into law

2:02 School now i'm just joking so i grew up in southern california san fernando valley you grad ucla law school whoa ho where i was i was told we weren't gonna have i was told we were just gonna okay i'll let go okay i'll let it go i'll be i'm not judgmental i'm not judgmental go ahead and i went to law school university of miami where i graduated in 2006 and since 2014 since excuse me i've been i've been admitted attorneys since 2007 and in 2014 i started entering into my area [unclear] which is assisted reproduction and as a result i saw that when people are building families and even with any of the different ways they do it they have they start having questions about their legacy whether it be money legacy whether it be their wishes etc and so in 2006 i branched out into estate planning and i've been helping clients in nevada utah new york and jersey since then with their state planning needs fantastic so again in the in the states of nevada and whereas nevada utah new york and new jersey utah because utah borders the southern part of utah borders nevada and then new york new jersey because you're from there or because it's common people of states in las vegas and new jersey new york what's the connection so i before we moved here to nevada i kind of gave you the condensed version we lived for six years back east in new jersey and so it was very found to be new york new jersey but opportunity brought me here to nevada and we've been here since 2013 and i've been very happy ever since very nice very nice and just a quick shout out to his wife who runs a business very successfully all over social media and how many kids do you have five kids wow we knew heather his wife and before she was married next thing you know she's married we met rob and then the five kids so guys have been real busy here while you're practicing your law so you're more i think in the estate planning or the avoiding the problems by preventative prevention and planning that you are

4:04 On the probate litigation side is that a fair assessment correct my the way my practice ethos is the best of attorney is one that keeps you out of court me personally i don't like court i think it's much better when people have control over what they want to do it's better for everybody it's not only faster but certainly cheaper and i want to say because some i get from real estate agents sometimes well then why is he on the call if he's preventing probate doesn't need us and it becomes a trust cell we all know how to do that why do you have him here the answer is i believe each making relationships with estate planning attorneys like rob in your marketplace make sure your clients have relationships with attorneys like rob and get good estate plans in place to avoid probate and if we all did that and probate was eliminated as if it's possible we would all not only have happier customers but we'd make more money in the long run i think everything would work out better for everybody so i'm aware that this isn't about how to not do business but it's about how to do business by establishing relations with attorneys like rob in your local marketplace so rob do you how do people come to you typically for an estate plan do they is it something that people on their own come to you and it's a referral do you market to it or how do people come to you so i my practice my practice is a referral and it's really people that the two exercises in my practice are like i said the family law as well as transactional work so a lot of clients that i have relationships with those from those practice areas tying nicely when they start thinking about as they get older or the next steps in their lives for the state planning additionally the relationships that i've made with my referral sources lend themselves to people not only from a financial point of view but from just a way of life point of view that they are planners and so you know those are the types of people i like to work with so i've kind of given my practice to be able to serve those people because i think when you have that linkage i think it works out best for both parties is it true it is true in california

6:07 Almost always that even a bad estate plan is probably as good if not better than no state plan at all meaning as a turn of being probate is that true in nevada as well i would agree i agree with that with one caveat and i see this typically you mentioned because you're actually right a lot of my clients are former california residents who now are here in nevada a lot of them have done some sort of planning in california and they'll call me and they'll say we need to change it to a nevada trust well there's no need but folks should but folks should know that when they're moving for example their trust has provisions in it governing what law or where things have to be litigated so i do so one thing is if you're moving to and if your intention is to have to as for the trust to be governed by the law of the state you're moving to or to be living in that state to kind of do a tune-up a check-in with somebody in that new place where you live in but other than that i agree with you're saying 100 and so just to recap most commonly attorneys in california or even national attorneys who do plans for californians would normally write litigation according to california law and generally in the default for you if somebody lives in nevada you would put it under nevada law and so if you move you should make sure that you have it for the right location based on where you want that to be exactly one of the most common challenges i see is that people take the plan the time to get a estate plan done and then don't move the assets into the estate in california there's a process called the Heggstad petition where oftentimes the family will say hey dad mom created this trust they maybe had the property deed in the trust at one time they took it out to refinance and they didn't put it back in and there's this famous case called Heggstad where the court allowed the intention of the decedent to override the legal paperwork and it's a fairly commonly accepted

8:11 Procedure in california is there an equivalent in nevada or are you out of luck if the property is not put into the trust you're out of luck if it wasn't if the presumption is unless they're unless there's some sort of unless there's some evidence of an error the presumption is that it wasn't put in the trust and like i said unless there's something extraordinary it cannot be put in the trust okay so unlike california where we kind of have a do-over opportunity but it can be expensive and it still can take time in california currently we're [unclear] county for example a Heggstad petition which is simpler than probate i said in quote marks because it's not just the first hearing is six months so because the court's a backlog so it's not quite such a simple process one of the other common problems i see with clients who do trusts is that they meet with attorney they write the world's greatest plan they maybe fund the trust completely perfectly and they go home and put the trust who knows where the mom and dad pass and nobody can find the trust is that a common problem and in nevada what's the law when the property let's say is deeded in the trust but nobody can find a copy of anywhere so if there is a trustee and there is a certificate either there's physical evidence of a certificate of trust or a party can come forth with evidence that they have in the trustee even without the supporting documents you can get an order you can get an order declaring that the trust does exist you'll hear some attorneys say it's not good to have multiple copies of the of the trust i would disagree i think one copy should be obviously with the trustee one should be with the successor trustee one should be with a relative and then one should be with your with your financial planner and then you're really it's belt and suspenders and then you can have a digital copy as well so it's really belt suspenders but it's a caught it's costly but it's costly but it is possible but i would certainly recommend folks like i said put multiple copies with multiple trusted advisors so that and when you say multiple copies i assume you mean multiple originals with

10:13 The original signed documents or well zero would be executed and then the rest would be certified as accurate copies got it certified copy is available to the parties what if there's there's evidence of a trust meaning properties d in the trust you know it was done at one point but there's no evidence nobody no successor trustee shows up with a copy they didn't take the proper plans it is as though it doesn't exist physically in the world what's the law in nevada regarding that and how is it different in other states so every law every state is different and if i get the scenario correct you're saying that there is there was the person during the first the grantor during their lifetime was the trustee and then they passed away and no successor trustee came forward then some an interested party like a beneficiary could petition the court and the court would appoint a the court would appoint a corporate appointed trustee or another interested party let's say there was a creditor to the trust they could do that as well but there had to be some sort of interested party enough to say hey this trust does exist it is it is legal it is it's not legally effect it's not legally affected it should go forward but the there is no guidance about who the trustee should be that said i think good practice is always to not only name a successor trustee but a sixth second successor trustee and then specifically and then specifically have a clause in there that even if they fail beneficiaries have the right to petition the court to credit someone should be depressed and then absent specific instructions i mean there's no trust document would the normal secession apply with the court just go to the default this process as far as distributing the assets you mean if you mean if the court finds that they're that there it finds that there is no trust or therefore if the court found that there was no trust or there was no evidence that there was a trust and there was no end and the pour-over will wasn't what didn't have any clause in it to say what happens if the tr if the trust

12:16 Should fail then it would go then would follow your laws of intestate inheritance yeah interesting i'm going look guys i'm going for hours of stuff this is fantastic a chance to talk to somebody who's real life attorney and i'll give you the disclaimer he's not giving you legal advice he's talking generally about the procedures and practices as we deal with as real estate agents and investors in the state and he's even not even in your local state probably if you're listening from california or other states so again don't take it as legal advice but i would say take it as ideas on how to solve problems or good questions to ask an attorney that you're working with in your marketplace that's really my goal of this maury i see your hand up besides the shout out to fellow san fernando valley resident do you have a question for rob yes my question is if you reside in california but own a property say in nevada should you have to trust or can you no that's that there's i mean unless there's some sort of need for it unique to that you need those folks to have one trust and having it own property in multiple states is not a problem okay so trust from california would be sufficient for nevada only okay yeah again as you said beginning it might be one to change it because the laws they'll be litigated with move but there's no necessarily a reason why you would have to basically saying so good thanks eddie asks how long does a probate transaction take in comparison to a regular transaction so you know in california you know theoretically to sell a property that needs a probate with full authority theoretically you file 30 days get approved theoretically sell the house normal escrow period maybe add 15 days and the house is sold but the money stays in the probate until it's completed what's it like in nevada and the other states you've experienced in rob as far as selling a property where there's a probate involved how long does it take extra to get a property sold it's a big range depending on depending

14:20 On what you know what that estate looks like but i'd say on the short end it could be distributed it would be four months you know soup to nuts super extra closing but i just folks just came to me and they were waiting a year until they got till they got the so they got the authority so they got the authority of the court to ultimately sell the property so that was it that was a unique case so i'd say usually four to six months is is is the average time that we have here in nevada i can tell you in la it's not uncommon there's no reason that should take that long but the average sale time for property in probate from the sale date if you back up to the file date is about a year and three months on average and i have all the time two and three years because of litigation objections problems getting appointed and things like that so yeah definitely a different issue king's estate i don't know if that's your name but your hands up and i'll ask you to mute and go ahead hi it's philip king with kings of state services in charlotte oh that's right it's almost like a two-part question i understand what you're saying about with the court let's say the trust is being administered in the state of wherever and the pro and there is a property in the state of north carolina can that probate process or whatever process they're using in another state handle the property transfer in north carolina or does it still have to be filed with the local clerk through the probate office in order to be able to sell the property number one number two let's start let's start there because that's a complaint i can imagine there's some complicated answers to that one let's start with that one hold on yeah so once there once there is an order from that from a from within this court in this case nevada and they're having to go to your case north carolina they would have to that would have to be what's called domesticated in the local courts of north carolina so then you would have to at least engage at a minimum a civil attorney in that other state in order to get that domesticated and then if you really wanted to go for it you would you would work the estate planning attorney just to do that matter in that state and those rules are going to vary

16:24 Imagine from state to state and how they exactly recertification and rights and admission and one-time emissions and things like that so i think the best answer is it's going to vary based on the particular of those two states yeah okay good second question is if let's say i established a trust here in north carolina i have property here in north carolina but then i moved to michigan for example and then and pass away but my trustee is in michigan can they administer it from the state of michigan or does it have to start at the point it was originated for the truth so typically there's no there's no issue with somebody out of state and it would if someone not be someone being a resident of the state where the trust wasn't created in or a different state there might be restrictions in the trust document itself but typically that's not going to be an issue from a statutory point of view but again i think that may or may not vary based on different states and exactly you might want if it's you know you have enough time and attention consult a attorney in the particular state that you're in your case michigan and or north carolina and i know we have an attorney from north carolina coming on in may so stay tuned or watch us on youtube and we'll take rob's question answer and run it by them and see how they feel about it okay all right great anybody else who has a question feel free to raise your hand in the zoom or put it in the chat box and i'll do my best to kind of keep up with everything you're welcome to shout out if you have service you want to promote yourself love to get referrals with each other love to share business that's why we do all this but if you do put either a cue or question by it to make sure i flagged that as a question robert another question does the do i handle probe administration in nevada i think you mean the guest does rob so you handle probate administration in nevada so i don't do probate myself it is a process that is very tedious as everyone here on everyone here on the call knows and it's

18:28 Something that i find that my strengths are better served in the actual drafting and working with the parties to get their needs across and i leave that to other folks now okay do you have somebody that you would refer them to if they have somebody if they have a question on probate i assume when you say sometimes people say administration can be filing the original probate it could be actually getting more involved there's litigation such so question depends on what you're looking for but robin general do you have somebody that you referred to for basic probate filing and basic administration yeah and i have several i have several folks and they can reach that and folks can reach out to me and i'm happy to pass out that information if they need them great okay good and so we'll have his contact info in our chat box i'll put it up at the end as well good question that's the goal here is to really create referrals you know i'm in different groups i'm involved with [unclear] i'm involved with chad corbett pro mastery in fact i'm a coach on his program and i host that sometimes i have my own group i see people ask questions and then you know does somebody know an attorney in san diego boom they give the name of somebody and i always you know search the attorney what i find is we all have friends who practice various things just like real estate agents i'm licensed to sell from the golden gate bridge down to mobile homes by windsor mobile home and i wouldn't sell the golden gate bridge i have my niche that do real well and i think the best attorneys have those niches really defined too so when you find somebody who that you know you want to get a referral for somebody who specializes in that field and i think rob's right to point somebody as well chip you all need to raise your hand i got you in the chat box you have a question i can unmute you though i gotta find you here first and see or you can i meet yourself there you go okay so my question is kind of related to mr king here in the state of florida we have what's called ancillary probate which means that somebody is from another state but they had property here in florida as long as they could have you know property in new

20:31 Jersey new york and that might be the where the residence was or it would have to be the residences of another state but they had property here in florida but their legal resident there so they petitioned the court here what's called ancillary probate and basically you know because it is florida property it gets handled through florida court is trust kind of similar in that if the probate i'm sorry the trust was created in new jersey they would include a property here in florida in that trust and it would be handled i'm sure differently but kind of similarly so if in the trust the trustee themselves will have the power that they won't have to go to the court at the to get any permission to do any dealings or talk about the successor trustee here so there wouldn't they wouldn't that wouldn't be that wouldn't be an issue with the trust they similarly like similarly let's say someone was sitting in california and they owned property in florida they would have no problem selling their property in florida they wouldn't have to avail themselves of any further thing other than listing it and ultimately signing the contract and you know completing the transaction you mentioned ancillary ancillary probate the states for example nevada doesn't nevada doesn't have doesn't have such proceeding so but that's as bill was saying a few minutes ago and i would agree with him you know certain states do have certain statutory or court enforced means that other states don't have so you do much so you do want to speak with an attorney in those states to make sure that you know exactly what you're doing i find that i find that the best attorneys are never intimidated when you say i'd like to speak to another attorney if intimidated by that means the wrong attorney but definitely right exactly and bill some of you mentioned in the beginning about you know developing relationships what a trust or the document that creates a trust really is is it's a set of instructions and in those

22:33 Instructions we're talking about trustees but trustees can give successor trustees limited more limited or broad authority like for example if a particular person has a relationship with a broker that they like they can tell their trustee to work with that brokerage to ultimately list the properties when it's hot when it comes time to do that so it's not just so probate which is probably the thing that you see the most they're also an ability to have relationships with folks that we can build that we can build on the trust side as well you know one of my colleagues tony english she's a professional fiduciary as well as real estate agent and she actually gets has certain clients right in the trust that she is to handle the self property because the what's the proof the person trust is written for the beneficiary you know wants a relationship with her trust her she maybe brought the attorney or the trust the estate planner to them and they want to work with him as a team and offers team services so definitely there's a strategy there that some people use effectively great and then another thing i would say about multiple states this little shortcut rob that i use is if you don't have a plan for your assets and your medical decisions where you're not capable of the state you live in has a plan and it looks a lot like getting a driver's license so here in california if that doesn't scare you in the estate plan you're not you've been to the dmv in a while in other states it's not such a big deal but in most states you don't want the dmv to determine who sells your house and how much and how money gets divided you wouldn't have the input on that yourself so that's just a shortcut to how to look at other different states king's estate again we have your hand up i remember from north carolina i don't remember your first name i'm sorry is it pat let's start this phillip philip king miller phillip yeah so if most of the clients that i deal with we're looking at when i'm engaging them we do the full we do full services state services state estate sale liquidation of contents all that stuff i am also the realtor in a lot of distractions we

24:37 Also do those services for other realtors so we're normally looking for the letters of testamentary as our engaging document that's what we need in order to that's what my company i'm with the eXp most of the time they're looking for that document in order to show that that person has the legal authority all right so are you saying that if there's a trust there that instead of the letters of testamentary we can just substitute the articles of trust that were filed and then that person we don't have to worry about a successor as long as the primary trustee is there is that what do i do how do i determine if the original trustee versus a substitute trustee is who i'm talking to yeah so i'll build those absolutely well i said california from an exp and from a real estate procedural perspective the California Association of Realtors has created a forum for us to use to give to the client to declare their authority and they're they're going to make the they're going to you know select what their authority is and provide the documents to back it up so we're relying on them telling us the truth we're not responsible to investigate but i will say the first thing and then i do is take it to a title rep either research the last document that was done by them if there's you know a chain or if not then we'll have to do some more research rob so if i if i if i understand correctly so they're either letters or in the case of a trusted certificate of trust is is a document that's that's signed under penalty perjury where you're declaring that you have the power you are the person named the document and you have and you and you have the ability to execute the powers in that document most places will only most places will accept just the certificate of trust the reason that trust the document creating the trust is important is so the successor trustee knows what their directions are but like you said california you know they have reform other places you know other places you know they might they might have they might have a forum or an

26:40 Attorney might just draft it as part of the representation but that's that's pretty easy and straightforward in california we used to have a separate form the rcsd representative capacity signature disclosure form that you have to remember to attach with a check box now it's actually built into the standard residential purchase agreement form and so there's room right there that if it's a trust or a state or it's a llc corporation they're right there you'll put the check box and what the name is and whether you're providing the documents or not at the time of sign the document so as a realtor again our job is to ask the client to present what their position is and then at some point all that gets checked out but it's different in every state obviously good chip i see your hand up again yes what mr king was talking about i had something very similar and like bill was saying you know whether you deal with a title company or a real estate attorney to do your closings that's who you really want to submit the documents to because then that takes that puts you in the clear you didn't make a decision based on what you think so i had one that the daughter wasn't originally in charge of the trust but the person that was didn't want to deal with it so he signed it over to her and i looked at it and it looked good but i'm not an attorney so i sent it to my title company and their attorney looked at it and they said yep everything's good she has the right to sell it you can move forward so we did but that's who i would go to is whoever you use for your closings there should be an attorney involved and that's what their job is is to keep it out of trouble yeah anything sometimes there are things that are legally acceptable but won't get insured you know a common example for that us is in california when we sell on probate even with full authority the title companies won't sure the case unless there's a 15-day notice of proposed action which is a filing that tells anybody the public we're selling the house here's how much we're selling it for who's who

28:42 We're selling it to and now the attorneys say well that's not required because the petitioner's only beneficiary blah and i said well you're right legally but there's no title company that will insure that that's that's they want the extra protection of the filing on the court case before they'll be comfortable to issue title insurance and basically if you can't get title insurance you really can't sell the property it doesn't matter how right you are legally nobody's going to buy the house it just doesn't work that way okay i see nikita has a great question and i don't know if you're able to mute yourself because the key thing is going to matter is what state is it i think always the first thing if you ask a legal question or scenario question you really need to identify what state it is because the laws do vary from state to state but she put she is the successor trustee of her sister's trust your sister passed away sorry for your loss and unfortunately had transferred the condo to the trust classic can i transfer it into her trust now that she's deceased without going to probate so that's what we talked about the very beginning in california we have a process called a Heggstad petition where you would go to the court and say she had a trust she did the condo she intended to put it in the trust never did that and if the court satisfied there's no objection they'll allow you to treat it as though it's in the trust and after the fact and it's kind of like a do-over rob answered the question that that's not there's no such process in nevada correct so in that case if there was a pour-over will the pour-over will could direct if the pour-over will directed that any property any and any residual property in the estate be transferred to the trust that would be pretty straightforward from a probate point of view but it would still have to go through the for the property that's not in the trust there would still have to be a probate opened right and so the pour-over will is a pretty standard piece of an estate plan right so almost anybody with a living trust i would say 95 percent of the time there's a pour-over will as part of the document package that they end up with is that would you it should be

30:47 But yes you're entirely right if you're just because there is there are other properties that people you know we talked about people forget people can't put in for different reasons and so it's really important to have a pour-over will and also pour-over will is going to be that document if you have a trust that if you have children minor children you didn't be able to name who you think the guardian should be you're gonna name your wishes about a corporal disposition and things like that so it's i would you know to what i when i do a when i do a revocable trust it automatically includes a pour-over will on the keynote i see you unmuted yourself nikki jones houston is your last name does that mean you're in texas or where are you located where's the question from i'm in california i actually put that out in california but i did it in the second statement and yes unfortunately we did not have that second document and she actually we actually went to the court to file to put the property into the trust but it didn't have the name of the trustee on the document so they rejected it and so she passed in the process and so now we're left with just that he was able to get everything else because she had designated him the beneficiary of it but we just want to transfer the property into his name so that he can have that and do whatever he want to do with it still has a mortgage on it but it's still in her name well i went to court off enough and saw this happen enough i can't say the court is very particular on the paperwork on the process for Heggstad because you can imagine you're trying to say there was a mistake made but i've seen the court when the process is filed properly over and over again allow properties like this to go back into trust so you know maybe you just need to get the right

32:49 Service i'd be glad if you want to reach out indicated to me what did you call it a Heggstad [Music] the famous court case in california yeah okay so again i'm not giving a legal advice but i've seen those petitions i've seen that process and basically you go to court saying well it was meant to be in the trust but it's not and we acknowledge it wasn't done i've seen cases where they had the wrong you know property description wrong parcel number and also they just left it out maybe they took it out for refinance or they never put it in i've seen every one of those examples and i've seen judges accept them i've also seen they're very particular they want every piece of paper done right because they're they're going on the line and as rob said other states don't allow it's it's really the judge can do whatever the judge wants i think that's the thing i try to tell people you can know the law you can be writing the law but if the judge says no it's no the judge says yes it's yes it doesn't really matter to some degree matt asked that she have children because that's a whole different question but i think at the end of the day if you're trying to out the fact put the trust i don't think that matters much okay and so actually that's you mentioned something about children trust real quick something the person that if you again if you this is if you have minor children or you have children or you have adult children they have special needs not the person who you want to be their guardian isn't necessarily the person who you want to be trusted the person that can give them the most tender loving care might be the absolute worst with finances and they might actually instead of being people think of what oh my mom or my dad or my sister my brother something like that but really people have to people have to think about you know these are role these are roles that the parties get to choose and they really sometimes it's not one person it's multiple people here's a great question christopher asks does nevada have a procedure to purchase an heirs interest in the state in califor in california it's called the assignment of interest you can there

34:53 Short answer is yes longer answer is it would be it would be a contract of the parties you'd be actually selling your inheritance for whatever you have whatever the value is but as far as that would there's no formal procedure that would have to be that would have to take care of that out you know you know only other than you know showing the assignment paperwork in the probate process yeah this is politically controversial in some states in that there are people who got property back in the post civil war period and for example freed slaves got a certain amount of land and you can imagine 160 years ago and in the first generation had more kids than we have now the second one had a bunch of kids and so you might have three generations later literally hundreds of heirs to a piece of property and then they'll be investors who'll buy up their those interests now [unclear] would say well they're getting fair value but another on the other side they say well yeah but they're also taking advantage of people who are maybe poor and educated and don't really know the value and so it is an area that's very politically charged but also the area that can be used to help people who need money and want to just sell their interest in the state don't want to go through the process of litigating or going through an entire probate process so there is such a process as rob said is that something that you that you would do in nevada is it also something that might be done in new jersey new york where you can buy the heirs' interest in the state is that something that you've been involved with i'm trying to think of a situation you know there's a there's a situation that i'm involved in that i'm involved in and it's similar to this and even in that that's not the approach we're doing like you mentioned you know there's you know i'll use the word perhaps you're going so far but there can be exploitation and really if you know to get the value out of the assets it really behooves people with to wait to sell them in a norm in a normal arm's length transaction and then provide whatever the library or the proceeds are unless

36:55 Somebody was just tote in a rare situation i might recommend it but i couldn't see that that would be though to bring you know the most value to the parties to the interested parties yeah i mean i've had cases where you know an heir to 300 000 600 000 worth of real estate there's another party and they need money to get an attorney the attorney won't do it on contingency they have the money to put up front and so you'll advance them part of their errors the beneficiary interest 10 15 000 to advantage to pay fees and litigation maybe some extra walking money to get through that time period so it is used there but again it should something should be used judiciously and use the word i think it's right word exploitation because we're not explaining people when you use that and even that i mean just from my point of view it's not [unclear] the right word but i don't even see that really which you just suggested is really contingency and that's something you know that's something that's really to pay to pay the legal fees but if it's really the matter of you know someone needs cash clear you know like you said they could do it but they would get far less they'd get far less value yeah and chuck simmons was nice enough to put a link to the Heggstad petition explanation how that works in los angeles let's see donna says do you have a chapter you are affiliated with that provides the same type of advice in florida so actually i've interviewed attorneys in florida and have another in fact just i think last week was a or two weeks ago was an attorney in florida i have another one coming up in a couple weeks so personally i used to live in florida i'd like to move to florida my wife doesn't so until i can afford to pay for a divorce he said jokingly we're not going to florida but i'm getting my license there and i'm looking to build my business there so you'll see me do more and more business but i can say on the college chup chip carmack who's one of my team members he's in palm beach gardens and services palm beach county so if you have questions there and maybe you might want to hook up with donna hodges in the chat box exchange some information there but yeah our goal is to do business and then i have a private i'm a facebook group

38:59 Probate experts if you want to exchange information is another place that we can exchange information if you have some questions there okay i shall prepare your attorneys to answer all my new questions okay so barbara owen says she has a p-p-l-s-i-f that allows you to access national proprietary attorneys to answer all your legal questions keep me informed out of trouble [web address shown in chat] okay very good so there's an app you might want to take a look at and shares her contact information interesting haven't heard of that but that sounds like an interesting thing worth checking out my goal is to create on this call a network of attorneys across the country that we can ask these questions to and refer to and help build their business and they can build our business as well so that's kind of what i'm looking to do okay i think i'm up to d in the chat box matt price has a question matt let me unmute you there you go there we go have you found that with commercial properties going through probate has been a problem or is it pretty seamless or if it snaps in with the rest of like the residential real estate i haven't seen it i haven't seen i haven't seen any you know big difference in speed as to when we can wrap things up from a transactional point of view really except from this if there's commercial if there's substantial commercial properties typically more money on the table so there might be more people fighting over things but typically the i mean typically you know commercial properties are in an llc so that might be they might then it's then it might be it's out of the it's out of the state of the individual altogether but i personally haven't seen you know a big time difference yeah i'll say i currently have a listing for a retail commercial property and i have a pending on industrial both through probate and i can say that they really are both ends the spectrum they are either done properly because a bigger property there's more

41:02 Money involved they get better realtors better attorneys paying attention things are done right or the other in the spectrum there's so much money involved that people try to shortcut and cheat this system and that's where i'm trying to catch that deal we've got to deal with her i think trying to sell it on the cheap i brought investor in who over bid and we got the property or make a lot of money by being there so i would say a little bit of both it just depends but by and large there's not as many as rob said because people more net worth tend to have estate plans but they still do sometimes fall through the cracks and i had a case where a client became incapacitated he was a real estate investor with like hundreds of small lots and about 40 pieces of property and we disposed of a lot of that that was a fantastic opportunity for me from a business point of view it was conservatorships per probate trusts it was the whole gamut but to the answer question it's the same process the same rules apply but because you have different money involved you get some of both of both ends does that help a little bit matt you're muted again it does i've had i've had in my case i've had two or three that have had who created llcs and the individual who passed away was the member manager so it was the courts didn't know how to handle it because in our particular state an llc is a separate organization a separate entity so to speak and they did not know exactly how to deal with a commercial part of that versus because the llc was never in the last one testament or there was no mention of it anywhere so even in the trust so we had to we had to basically figure out how to work around a lot of the laws that were you know hardened for this is what happens if somebody has a interest in a corporation with stocks

43:05 Bonds trades and that kind of thing and if they're a member manager of an llc we had to figure out if the authority was going to be granted to the executor of the estate to work with the llc so there was a lot of that that took two years in order to walk around that legal nightmare there you go and then you remind me of another point the two things one as we've been saying for all states all states are different also you know all there's different laws in all 50 states so you do want to check with somebody to make sure specifically you know how it works in your state additionally folks that you know sometimes they don't own a property themselves they you know you know they're you know property is their business and they aren't with other people so excuse me you might be a trustee you might be a personal representative in a probate you might be a conservator but there might be business owners there might be members of an llc that you have to deal with and then operating agreement might have things that say that are totally opposite to what the trust says so those are times where you have you know areas not only business law but estate planning coming together you're getting very close to litigation ideally it was done ideally the attorneys work together so everything speaks to each other or there was one attorney doing everything but that is something to worry about as well and i think my main goal of this call in this series is not that we provide the answers to our clients of these questions but that we maybe bring these questions to their attention and make sure and find out who does your llc and your commercial work who does your real estate or estate planning are they conversing asking those questions i think is important and that's also a way as a real estate agent i believe you can build your network of providers because now you go from just being a realtor when they want to sell a house to helping your client you know prevent getting themselves into problems so that's the goal here is again i'm not here practicing law i am here to learn how i can be more valuable to my customers and in the course of that bring business to the attorneys that

45:10 They work with joyce you've been patient is your hand up go ahead and meet yourself and how can we help you i was wondering if you could give us advice on the best way to work with attorneys to get them to give us referrals there you go rob there's a question how would how would a real estate agent in your market henderson nevada how would they position themselves so that you would do business with them responsiveness that i cannot you know i have a client who's currently doing something in an appropriate manner and it took over a week for their broker to get back to them and if i was doing probate i would for sure not recommend that for sure not recommend that broker anymore so really it's responsiveness and it's you know we all get busy and we all get you know we all get we all get slammed that that tote that totally makes sense but it's really communication you know people kid people can you know i'm personally not a real estate agent or a broker so i don't know how to make things sell for more so for less that i was not given that gift but i think it goes when someone's responsive it also is a sign that a lot of things are important that's going to make that whole transaction go a lot faster with a lot more value for people you know i'll say joyce your real estate agent where do you practice orange county and what company with keller williams very nice so and i grew up in the oc by the way so welcome so i will say that you know when i talk to people about my company and we all talk about commission splits and fees and money and the thing that i never talk about that probably is why i joined the company i'm with them with exp is because of the broker responsiveness and i'm talking to our brokers once a week in our virtual world i host a coffee with them every friday and i think it's really important to have that relationship so i would say to you if you're with keller williams you know what's really like with your broker make sure that or whoever answers those questions for your organization you

47:13 Really need to invest in the time and that relationship when you don't need it so that when you do need them they're responding to you and i think as a real estate agent those relationships are so important they don't go in your resume people don't see them but they're worth the work and i would say whoever it is sometimes companies have like multiple branches and there's really the attorneys in another branch it's worth going there it's worth taking their classes it's worth introducing yourself to them so when you have a problem you can meet them great question choice thank you so much bob dorfman i see your hand up you're next how can we help you hi bill thank you if someone sells a home that was in a trust what hap what happens if the proceeds don't get put back in that trust is there any rule or law that you're breaking if for one reason or another they just don't go back it would depend on it would depend on the instructions in the trust typically similar to if a natural person sold a property the money would go into their bank account unless you gave another instruction to escrow the money would go into the bank account of the truck of the trust and then the trustee would do with what they're supposed to unless they have an instruction that they can do and they do otherwise with it if the if the owner of the trust is is alive does the trustee still have a role so the grantor is the trustee and it's also the beneficiary at this time they're all there one person is all three correct i'm i'm afraid i'm not understanding so the owner of the trust and the owner of the property are she's still alive and the trustee who is identified within the trust do they have a role to play when that that let me help this one

49:14 Let me help a little bit definitions here so i think what rob's asking what Rob [unclear] is asking you rob is to identify the party so if the person is alive generally the grantor of the trust is still the trustee of the trust if they're alive generally speaking as well as the beneficiary of the trust when they pass then there's a successor trustee who then takes over generally people remain the trustee of their own trust when they're alive unless they're for some reason incapacitated so i think what you're asking is if they're alive generally even they have a trust they're still making the decisions on their trust or if it's husband and wife usually they both one or the other or both can make those decisions when they pass is when the successor trustee takes the steering wheel so to speak and drive the truck is that close rob thank you yeah i appreciate that thank you yeah i speak realtor by the way rob so just that's what it's worth it's a little different okay rob dorfman thank you so much your questions a great question and look for all of you this is from beginners to experience but we've got to learn the definitions and the procedures and we all start somewhere so and i think for all of us hearing it again and saying it again forces us to learn it better to be able to explain to people so great question okay i don't see any other questions we're getting up in the end of the hour so let me do this just to kind of wrap up rob i have your contact info but just verbally if somebody had a business in nevada and they're in or utah or new jersey new york and we're interested in estate planning and or family law questions how would they get a hold of you sure easiest way is to come onto my website that's contemporarylegalsolutions.com and you can fill out our contact page and we'll get in touch with you that we'll get to you within 24 hours or you can email me it's my first address is [email address shown on screen] fantastic and i'll put that in his in the chat box we'll have that in our show notes on the various

51:18 Social channels as well and then of course if you need him for if we reach out to me be glad to reach out and catch him if i can't get a hold of him i'll call his wife and she'll flag him down because she keeps him on a short leash so rob on behalf of everybody thank you so much making time to i know like you this is a our passover holiday and you're getting ready to spend time with your family we schedule here i think but i really appreciate you make a time to educate people and i think important to not just tell what the law is but how to work with somebody like you who's a professional to bring some business and to earn that trust so thank you so much for being on today i appreciate it thank you so much everyone have a great day alexa and the rest of you i want to say that we do this every week i'm Bill Gross, The LA Probate Expert we do this probate weekly call every thursday at four o'clock pacific time seven eastern time it's recorded live it's on youtube and facebook and linkedin we stream it live as well as put the recordings on there if you have questions i can help