The Reverse Mortgage Coach: Christina Harmes Hika

0:02 Hey, it's Bill Gross, your host for the Reverse Mortgage Podcast. We do this every week. I introduce I interview reverse mortgage professionals, mostly originators, sometimes management, sometimes vendors. And I always say it's very special the guest we have today, but today is very special. A because I saw her yesterday at the National Mortgage Lenders Association event, but B because she's an amazing person. She's not just one of the top originators in the business, but coaches other originators and helps them build their business and develop best practices. As you know, that's why I launched this podcast was to raise the quality of the work in the industry to help us serve our customers better. So, I'm really excited to have again, I've had her on before, but her podcast in person yesterday, Christina Harms, the reverse mortgage coach. I put the in front because that's how she looks like to me. Christina, welcome to our call today. Thank you so much for being here, Bill. And it was great to see you yesterday, too. I feel so lucky. Well, it was really special and I know that you go there but you didn't at least I didn't see you promoting yourself as a coach. You're there as an originator as well. So, talk about some of the things that you saw as originator and why you went to the event yesterday in particular. I always go to the Nurmala events. I have a finance and econ degree and the Nurmala events are not like other mortgage events where I love other mortgage events. They're a lot of fun, but they're really originator oriented and there's a lot of like sales and raw and stuff like that. And Nurmla is not that way at all.

1:24 NRMLA is a pretty dry, but for me, I kind of geek out on the content and it's a really highlevel overview of all the different areas. So, you get to hear from servicing, you get to hear from HUD, you get to hear from economists, you get to hear from originators do have a panel. There was a great panel yesterday actually with somebody who's been in my coaching program that was really cool. Surprised. Yeah. Well, that was the first for me actually to have somebody that I've coached up on stage. So, that was a pretty special event. But yeah, I really enjoy the event and it's a pretty small industry and those that are really invested usually go. So, it feels a little bit like a high school reunion. It did have that feel as outside first- time person with the organization. It had that feel to it. Maybe there were 200 people there yesterday. I don't know what the Yeah, but nationally there's only 200 something CRMPS total. So a good percentage of those who are on that program were there yesterday. Of course, there's also guests and other people as well, but in that sense was really strong. So let's talk a little bit about when people talk to me. I don't coach. I in the past have been a coach for a company. In the past, I had a coaching business that just didn't fit for me personally, my style. But whenever I seen anybody and they ask me you know what's the best program I always say you have to have three things. One is you have to have like a system or process or methodology that everybody in the program is working towards because a coach can't really sell multiple systems effectively. I guess you can sell them they just don't work. Second you have to have a personal leader coach and mentor that person in your case I'm sure it's you. And then three, I believe you have to also have like a community of people in order those people maybe slightly ahead of you to pull you along and those behind you that you're serving to practice the process. So talk a little bit about your you know how you help originators and am I on track on those three pieces? Do you offer those three pieces or am I missing something? Yeah. So the people ahead of me are Nurmma, right? I have been the benefit of being mentored by all those people for all my career. I've

3:29 I've just been very fortunate to be kind of taken under a lot of people's wings and go to the event and get a lot of perspectives and be mentored. The people behind me generally are loan officers that are not new to the business, right? I'm not like, "Hey, come do reverse mortgages from tire sales." It's generally mortgage loan officers who've been in the business a long time and they are new to reverse mortgages and they're for what usually it's an age thing, but sometimes it's other reasons. They're just saying, "I really like reverse. I want to get better at this." And so, I definitely have a blueprint. I have courses that walk them through all of your job as an originator and best practices and tips and tricks and hints and pro information that you wouldn't get anywhere else. And I designed that because a lot of our lenders in the space will design a lot of courses, offer a lot of courses. But what I found when I was learning reverse myself was that it was just topical and just too much. It was a smorggage board. It was like going to It was like going to You know when you're on a cruise and on that cruise there's just so much food. Imagine your personal trainer going along with you and saying don't eat that. You're going to have this, you're going to have this to design a healthy meal to support your goals, right? And that's kind of but I didn't take the lender courses. I created it myself based on my journey, the client's experience. And it's a lot more touchyfey than anything I've seen out there because I believe the reverse mortgage sale is you have to be very good at finance. You have to understand the numbers. You have to be good at communicating that in simple terms. And then you have to be emotionally intelligent. And that last piece is generally missed across the industry.

5:12 And you have to be emotionally intelligent at the right pace and be able to keep up with where the conversation is going and really be engaged with the client. Also there's a lot of information out there that you don't need. And so I really cut through to the chase of here's exactly what you need and cut out the what you don't to get just down to the like the phrases that you need to keep in your mind. One of which is like if interest rates are up, loan amounts are down. If interest rates are down, loan amounts are up, stuff like that. I just try to create a really simple way for people to understand things and then walk them through exactly step by step. It's a lot of information. And I have a few different courses that do that. I was talking No, so at the low end, let's say people, they're mortgage originators, they know the basics, they both want to they want to increase their business, but they also want to find a niche, I.e. Reverse mortgages to play in. So what do you think is the biggest challenge they have to overcome to go from being a caterpillar to a butterfly to struggling as a forward mortgage only agent perhaps to really flowering into building a business that includes reverse mortgage? What are the one or two key character traits that you think they need to develop or technical skills they need to work on? Well, far and wide, I have been at the tops of companies in the reverse division management and I've seen large pools of loan officers and when I bring them into the system of okay, you're going to learn reverse, most think they're relationship type people and it they're not the way they run their business is still very transactional. And so even the ones who are like, "Oh yeah, I'm all about relationship." A lot of the time they've got to take that from here to here. And so it's building the relationship. Reverse mortgage is a very high trust sale. You need a lot of integrity, a lot of transparency, and a lot of let me put myself in your shoes and your kids' shoes and see what's going to be best. And it's more of a team sport, I think, than other

7:16 Mortgages. I remember I used to do regular mortgages and when I did, you know, I would do I would run the numbers and I'd call the client, hey, we can save you 200 bucks a month. Do you want to do this? Yeah, cool. Okay, here. Reverse mortgage is not like that at all. And so what I find with loan officers is they kind of get defeated and or they think it's simple. I remember what it's like to think, oh, okay, I can do this other loan or this weird loan. I'll do a USDA or a VA. And those are not particularly easy, but they're not as extremely difficult or weird as the reverse mortgages. I mean, the whole mortgage works differently. Right. Right. So, bringing that level of competency up is so important before anything else. So, would you say that you focus first on the technical learning that or the motivation side? And what I mean by that is I know again I'm not a coach. I do coach people, but I don't formally have a business or in that sense don't collect don't get paid to do it. And I get asked all the time. There's one question people always ask me is, "What's the easiest way to build a probate business or be successful?" And I say, "I have no idea." Because there's one thing my business is not and was not is easy. Now, I enjoyed it. It was fulfilling. I, you know, made good money, but never did I go, "Wow, that was an easy day today." and I think reverse mortgage, I was talking to somebody yesterday, actually, and I was asking him, "What is it hard for you to scale your business?" this and he said, "Well, it's different than other mortgages in that, you know, a normal mortgage, they fill the paperwork, it pretty much appraisal comes out, but with a reverse, it's like an FA, everyone's an FHA or 80% or 90% of FHA loan. So, you need to meet FHA requirements for say the roof repairs or the quality of the house and the appraisal requirements are stricter than a conventional or stricter than a driveby only." And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, so you have a roof repair guy, you have inspector guy, you have this, you have that. Like to me, those are just the opportunities to prove yourself as opposed to the other loan agents that quit. And yet in a in a loan originator's mindset, oh that's

9:18 Hard work. I want to avoid that. Isn't there just some way to get paid without doing all that? Seems to me that there's a mindset. You talk about the emotional intelligence, but it seems to me it's more of a mindset like it's supposed to be hard. Roll up your sleeves and help people. That's really what we do. Or is it really just not knowing who to call in those procedures or steps? Well, yes. What I focus on first as a motivation, I actually focus on who are you at your core? Are you even well suited to do are you patient enough? Do you that one right? Don't ask. My wife's not here. So the answer is I'm not very patient and she'll confirm. But you know in business you work on it. I mean that's why we do this stuff. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry. It just hurts. That question that patients word just hurts. I'm sorry. Okay. I'll get off of it. Okay. Go ahead. But that's good to know, right? If you're coming in, I'm going to ask you this question. You're gonna say, "No, I'm not patient." I'm going to go, "Okay, you might want to reconsider what you're doing." A reverse mortgage takes a lot of patience. Are you a relationship type person? No, not really. You know, I was I was coaching a loan officer in a group and he was the only one in the group arguing with me about, well, I don't want to I don't want to ask about their grandkids. I don't care about what they do on Saturday for fun, for socialization. And I was trying to say, well, okay, is this kind of a relationshipbased sale? Couldn't hear it. That guy is struggling. And so that's one of the things is it's not a transaction. And then on top of that, you have who are you at your core?

10:45 Do you enjoy working with seniors? Are you open to working with not just the seniors themselves, but the adult children, the CPAs, the financial advisers, the attorneys? Because you're going to be working with all those people. And if that's going to be something that every time it happens, you go h well then it's probably not a fit or at least we have to reframe your perception around that and get to the heart of the matter. And then beyond that, you ask like what's the easiest way to build a business? I think it's really important that it's sustainable. I've coached a lot of loan officers and they're like, "Oh, I want to go after financial advisers or Realtors®." I'm like, "Do you like Realtors®? Do you like financial advisers?" And if their answer isn't yes, then we got to kind of look at things because you have to enjoy the process and the people that you're working with. You don't love it. You don't love working with those people. If you love working with those people, it's great. If you don't love it's you're not going to last. And that's one thing in the industry why our industry is kind of small, I think, is because there's no du, there's no aus. There's no magic button to push to say, "Does this client qualify?" You have to do it all yourself. And you also have to manage all of these other aspects. And it's just a lot. And if you are not if your heart is not in it, if you're just in it for another loan, there are much easier faster loans with easier teammates to work with, faster paced teammates. Like millennials do everything by email.

12:08 You try to handle a reverse mortgage client only by email, that's probably not going to be a very successful business model. So really, and the other thing, too, are you open to adapting? Are you willing to do snail mail when the client doesn't actually do email, when they don't even have tech? Are you willing to use faxes? Are you adaptable to the client rather than trying to force them into your system? That's really important in this space, right? Yeah. And I think, you know, there's some ways that I've helped myself develop patience and one is I try to imagine you when I'm at this desk is different when I'm not, right? So, I don't answer. I don't like getting my phone when I'm you know doing other women in my family or something. But when I'm here at the desk, yeah, I'm in work mode. So, I'm ready to kind of deal with those things emotionally. And I think sometimes it's about you know time, place, set the mechanics, what's convenient, comfortable for you to do business, but it's challenging. Now, one of the things that surprises me also, I know that there are very few reverse mortgage originators that do a lot of them, right? And I was surprised when I we did my research. There's so many that do a couple a month. There's very few that consistently do a lot on the monthly basis. I think there's one lady at the meeting yesterday that said she did 30 or 40 or 50 or something, but otherwise for the most part, it's been elusive for most people to get past a certain number of those. I'm sure probably you make money per deal, you don't work as hard. But it would seem to me what surprised me though is I didn't see anybody like focusing on one particular niche. Like there people say I want you know referrals from financial planners but I also want referrals from attorneys from this and I'm thinking each of those is challenging like I work with attorneys that's my niche in my real estate probate business could I get business from other you know verticals accountants or financial planners of course but it's tough enough to work with attorneys and there's enough of them to keep me busy I'm surprised that reverse mortgage agent originators don't focus on more narrow niche either just for purchase or senior housing

14:13 Setups. Is it just because there's not enough and they want to broaden out or is that a mistake they make or you know, how do you advise people on their focus? Is reverse big enough niche or do they need to micro niche within that? I'm so glad you brought that up because I talk about that a lot. You do need to micro niche beyond that because it starts with who do you like to work with? Excuse me. Yeah, we were on a group coaching call not too long ago. Hold on a second. Hold on. That's cool. Let's stop right there for a second. That solves the problem right there. If you just answer as that question. Okay. So, go again. What was the question you asked again? Well, I asked I asked the group, who is it you want to work with? If you could design your ideal client day, who is the referral partner that's calling you regularly? Yeah. And one of the more surprising answers, which I absolutely love, is the adult children. And that's been a big part of my business, just happen stance. That's not a niche that I go after personally. I like financial planners myself. And I work with a lot of loan officers. I coach a loan officer in Texas. He's not licensed in California. When he has a client in California, he'll ask me to help and vice versa, passing referrals that way. And so when I when it comes to that, you have to really enjoy the type of referral partner that you're working with. And then your marketing has to speak to that. The stories you tell have to speak to that. There's kind of a big gap. There's the planners and then there's the non-planners. The non-planners often end up doing a reverse mortgage in their 80s or 90s when their cognitive abilities have gone and it is the adult children that you're working with and that's a whole niche and you have to be really good with PAS. You have to be really good with trusts early in my career. I just thought that was cool to review all the POA trust language. So I got really good at that. Through my career I've decided I don't love that anymore. I really like working with the financial planners to design a holistic retirement plan. And so that's kind of where I'm directing now. But I also have a YouTube channel. So I do get the random calls from everywhere and consumer direct or just family members.

16:13 So it's so funny you say this because I am different in that I would never want to talk to the families of the reverse mortgage client. It's just I just find that process I don't know. You just said it and it kind of pushed me back. There's your YouTube channel, by the way. YouTube is Christina Harms. I just But it's that question is so powerful because I'm thinking, well, I like to work with attorneys. I mean, I really if I all day long could just work with them and answer their questions and solve their problems. I would be thrilled. Now, I don't get to just do that. There's others that, you know, you fill in the meantime. But what a powerful question. And you like working with financial planners. What is it about financial planners in particular? Is it the design of the plan that you got to be creative with it or the numbers or what is it about that you like that process? I like that we never get to with their clients. We help their clients prevent I need a reverse mortgage because we get one because they want one early and that preserves more of the whole estate rather than like I said I have two pools. I definitely help the families where this is the only asset left and they need to help pay for care and bring care into the home for mom or dad. My people. Those are my people, by the way. Yeah. I love it. It's a really heartwarming thing, but it's also a very sad type of experience of, oh my gosh, this is all we have left. And if you work with the financial planners early on and implement a reverse mortgage early in the retirement plan, then you never get to that point because you're preserving all of the assets and utilizing the growing line of credit. So you never get there. So for me, when I was a lifeguard, I was a beach lifeguard in San Diego for six years through college.

17:56 No way. Yeah. And I the feedback I always got from the main tower was, "Oh, we love when you're in the tower because you don't let anybody get anywhere near the rip current." because I didn't I didn't like having to like swim my butt off to save somebody like way bigger than me and by the end of the save I'd be exhausted and they'd be freaked out and then there'd be another one. So I would go out early and I'd go, "Okay, everybody." I would just direct traffic. Okay, there's a rip current here. Go away. So I feel like it's kind of that I like prevention rather than saving at this point in my career. I can say I was a lifeguard in high school in a pool at the pool at my high school and I think I spent most time just looking at the girls but that's a whole another discussion. So and when you say it's so interesting because when you say who you like to work with my people are the people who don't plan but the people I like to work with on those cases are the attorney and then they need me to help come in and protect the good brother from the bad brothers trying to steal from or whatever. That's kind of where I get involved and I loved that role. But it's so interesting that question is so empowering. Okay. So, you like to work with financial planners. I know there are reverse mortgage originators who work with, loan officers at a company. It doesn't seem like that transition is as tight as any company wants to be. Like every, it seems to me, I'm the outsider, that every manager is trying to figure out, well, how do we make our forward and reverse people work together effectively? And that must be harder than they understand it or they have some challenge with that they're not overcoming. What do you see as that opportunity and or challenge of a reverse originator who makes a living I would think per perhaps working with other forward originators?

19:39 So I've done that as well early in my career. I helped with my father I worked at C2 Financial. We helped build the reverse division. Now that's a company with a large pool of forward loan officers. It is a very unique skill and you again like you've been talking, you have to have a system because it can become mayhem very quickly. Also, the loan officers that you're working with, you have to make sure that your system for following up and helping them follow up is appropriate because they're not used to having to follow up for years to get a reverse mortgage with a client. They're used to client comes in, they're buying a house, everything's closed within about 60 days and they're done. That's not reverse. And so you really, again, you have to have that skill set and the system to nurture those loan officers. Generally, they're not going to learn it. And you have to really understand and be able to identify, is this person going to learn it or is they're not going to learn it and they should just work with me. And then there's different I guess you just really have to be good at reading the room. There's different situations. Certain clients are very emotionally tied to that loan officer and you need to keep them in the process. Other clients would rather that loan officer get off out of the way and just talk to you directly. And you got to be able to be flexible for both.

20:58 One of the things I've learned, I was originator for the first part of my career in the last 15 years or so been strictly real estate. One of the things I came to appreciate is the long the long tale of the business. I remember seeing a study years ago of a company that did CRM and advertising and they tracked the leads that they bought into the CRM to close on average was over two and a half years. And I don't think Realtors® play understand that and play that game that long game. I know loan officers don't understand that game and play that game. And yet I routinely get business where somebody who I talked to about selling or you know in my case most often two three four five years later in fact the one of the speakers yesterday Byron I brought him a case it was two years I talked to him and then finally they decided to file probate. They should have done it two years before they didn't whatever reason. It seems like that's where so many loan originators lose their business and burn out because now they're constantly for new business and they're ignoring kind of the seedlings they should have be developing. How do you coach or do you advise a officers to spend the time to develop those leads to nurture them to play the long game or is it just is it too long game to be effective? No, it's not too long of a game to be effective. The long I knew that answer. I knew that answer but I'm just I was just trying to be open-minded when I asked the question.

22:16 I actually my marketing for my reverse mortgage coaching business used to be bulletproof your business and the idea behind exactly what you just said right we are farmers in reverse and that's one of the challenges too taking a loan officer from the forward side who has not viewed themselves as a farmer as a nurturer as seasons happen and you have to plant in certain seasons you have to harvest in certain seasons and different crops harvest at different times and you have to nurture that and you have to have some knowhow to that the forward loan officers are very much so hunters. And I think that's one of the biggest problems I see in reverse and in any business. But early on in my career, I had a benefit of a gigantic mistake. I had pulled five to 10 loan officers together. We pulled together a bunch of marketing money. I think it was about 36,000 total. And we decided, okay, we're going to do this Facebook ad campaign. This was a long time ago before this was a really known about thing. And I realized, okay, if we're going to spend $36,000, we had better be sure that every lead that comes in is nurtured fantastically. At the same time, I was dating a guy who was building who owned a whole CRM company. And so, he was explaining to me what a CRM even was. This was I mean, we're talking like 2015 maybe somewhere in there. Before CRM was really even a popular concept. So, he's explaining to me everything. I'm kind of watching him at night sometimes code on his computer. I'm like, "What are you doing there?" And he's showing me all the inside of the CRM. And through that process, I realized, okay, if we're going to spend $36,000, which for these originators, it was it was a lot. And in my career, it was a lot of money at that time to spend on marketing. And I said, "Okay, we have to have a good farming system because we know they're not all going to close." Through that experience, we brought the leads in. We nurtured them and over time so I don't have numbers I should have tracked that but so many of them called and closed eventually it really just opened my eyes to how much more important this is on

24:20 The reverse side. The other part of it is my process leaves a very good first impression. I never ever and I coach loan officers never ever just send a quote. Don't do that. Just you're wasting your own time. You're confusing the client. You need to walk them through it in whatever fashion you're going to. My process is to do a video. That video explains everything. It's hard to forget me after that video. So then it's just on me to make sure I'm staying in touch and nurturing and just checking in because it's often a life event that will cause them to move forward. Hey Christina, we were looking at a reverse mortgage three years ago. We didn't move forward. Now this life event happened and we'd like to get our reverse mortgage. You know, I've been in this business long enough and I have to say without question, every great originator, mostly Ford, I know, even the few reverse I know they do well. With that exception, market to everybody they've ever talked to forever, like they have their list of people and they're constantly adding people in and going back to past clients, going back to their past contracts, going back referral sources. And you tell that to people who are who are either a struggling or b they're hunters and well I don't really like to do that. Well that's great but you know you will in a year or two when your business drops and you don't have that to fall back on. You don't have the annuity of your business you know because I think you're not building a business at that point. You're really just a commissioned employee who's working for a job not building a business where it has asset value. So, do you spend time at all or is that something that loan officers talk about is really building even if you work within a big company like a C2 or a fairway or these are huge major corporations that you're going to feel like an employee. Like I'm with the XP.

26:05 You can't help but feel like an employee when you're affiliated with these large corporations, but I'm a business. I make every decision based on my business. Is that something that you assist your loan officers to kind of get that mentality that they're building a business and think long term? Absolutely. To the best of their ability. Right. If the company's providing the leads, the company owns those leads generally. So my favorite model is to own my own leads, which means you got to get your own leads, which isn't easy for everybody. So it really is a step by step. Who do you want to work with? How are you going to attract them? How are you going to nurture them? How are you going to make sure that the client process is amazing so that they give their referral partner good feedback? And it really is just a whole ecosystem. And the beauty of that is I have friends online who are in other types of businesses completely outside of mortgage. And I'll see them talk about how they will know how much ad spend to spend to get how many leads. And the beautiful thing in my business is I don't have to spend on ad spend. I know out of every five calls, one of those is a closed loan. In a decent market, in a really good market, it's four to one because I've tracked that and I know the phone's going to ring simply because of this farming method. And it just it can't be beat. The other part is what you said earlier is that seniors generally think of us as banking hours. And one of the draws to this, right? I early in my career I had to take 900 pm calls on Saturdays with first-time buyers freaking out and I decided I didn't want to do that with reverse they're pretty much respectful of 9 to5 Monday through Friday. That's a beautiful part of my business probate with attorneys is they basically only work Monday through Friday me even half a day on Friday even which is works for me and I often get you know buyers agents calling me yelling at me hey I called you I left you eight messages on Saturday and Sunday well I don't work on se Sunday sorry how do you sell real estate now work Saturday well see I have a listing you're calling me for information do you notice how this is working I'm calling you back it's Monday

28:07 Do you have a question I can help you with and I think that's the same true that if you But even more so, it's not just the type of business, but also the volume. If you have enough business, you can be more selective. When you're desperate, you have to chase it wherever it is. And that's why you find the Realtor® who's calling you Saturday at 3:00 in the afternoon panic. It's because they work part-time and they're desperate and they need a check. One of the things I know that you do as part of your farming or your marketing effort is your YouTube channel. We talked about that. I'll bring it back up. Obviously, you have, you know, nice number of subscribers. I can see right away where you have 160 videos, so you're creating content. What do you advise people as far as video? Because I talk to so many that I tell them you have to have a YouTube channel. How do you communicate with people if you don't? To me, it's kind of a at this point for me a no-brainer, but obviously you're dealing with people who may not yet have one and need to get started. So, what's your advice to help agents get started on building their brand and in particular video? Well, I'll give it to you this way. It's a little bit selfish because I reverse mortgage is such a complex concept and there's so many different aspects to it that somebody was asking me hey I have this information I have this question how do I answer it and I said well for me I usually just grab my own YouTube link for a specific video and send it to them so that is really the originating part of the YouTube channel I've had it for I don't even know I think it's like seven 10 years somewhere in there since 2011 I checked before our Oh. Yeah. Okay. See, that's not that many videos o for what is that over 10 year? 14 years. It's one a month for 14 years on average. And I haven't always been consistent with it, which is my own. You know, the coach is not following your own advice.

29:50 Consistency is so important. I haven't been consistent with the YouTube channel, but what I will say is I have really good content and videos that's educational and I end up just using it myself. Here's a link. Watch this, then call me. Because reverse mortgage you can find yourself repeating yourself a lot in this space and I just got very tired of doing that and so I said okay I need to capture this information once so that I can send it to them because the information is great it's the same conversation they don't need to have me live saying it to understand the concepts you I do the same thing as a listing agent I work in probate I'll get calls about particular technical questions particularly court confirmed sales And yes, I can answer the question while standing on one foot while playing with my grandkid, but better that I do it with full attention at my desktop, maybe with a screen pointing out things. I can pull up the form, show them what to fill out, and send them a seven or 10 minute video on what to do. And you know, I not only does it help communicate, but I think it people come back and say, "Wow, you're really professional." like that person went from being a competitor to being somebody who is you know appreciate my business. Maybe they come work for me or they become a recruit or they refer me business. But I think it's like it's beyond it has a whole different level. I think it does and it's pretty simple to do it. I think it comes off as much more professional and techsavvy than it really takes to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

31:21 Well, look, I know you and I have talked all regularly and quite a bit and I've got a little long here in this episode, but I've really enjoyed our time and I think more importantly, you've really helped explain things to originally want to build their business as a reverse mortgage. If somebody wanted to talk to you about coaching them, helping them build their business, what's the best next step to get started with you? The best next step, check out my YouTube channel and there's a lot of links on there and then also learningreverse.com. You can just contact me through that and there's a lot of offering on there. I'm also partnering sometimes with other companies. One of the companies I'm partnering with right now is Equity Wealth Academy and these are financial advisors. Now we've paired okay, how do you do a reverse mortgage? How do you become an expert? How do you take care of the client? And that's what I do with okay, how do you get more leads? And how do you nurture relationships and speak financial advisor? And so that's one of the missions I'm on right now is financial advisers need to look at us as professionals of their equal level and I think that there's a gap there right now. So this partnership is going to help bring that gap closed. Well, I'd love to help you close that gap. Christine, it's always a pleasure to chat with you. Look forward to more. I know we've done some other business together and been your podcast. Thank you for your support and thank you for helping raise the standards in the industry. Thank you so much, Bill. It's been a pleasure and I always enjoy speaking with you. Fantastic. Thanks so much. And for the rest of you, this is the Diverse Mortgage Podcast. I'm Bill Gross. We do this every new episode every week where we interview top professionals in the business, usually originators, loaded coach, sometimes vendors, sometimes management. You can continue the conversation on our Facebook group, the reversemortgageodcast.com.

32:58 I'm at Bill Gross Probate on social media. As always, make today your best day ever. Thanks so much.