Ethical vs. Compliant Reverse Mortgage, with Todd Walcott

0:02 So with reverse mortgages, there's the ethical best option and there's the compliant option that might be best for the company, not the customer. Which one's the right one for the customer? Which one's the right one for an originator building a business? Really excited to have here today Todd Walcott, who is a certified reverse mortgage professional, as well as another designation. I'm not even sure what it means, but what I do know about him is he's not only qualified, competent, but focused on making sure customers understand really what's best for them. Todd, thank you for joining us today. What is the difference between an ethical compliance and being in compliance? You know, so when first thing is like to talk about ethics itself, you know, and the whole thing about certified reverse mortgage professional is we agree to a higher set of standards of ethics, you know, and one of them, for example, is, you know, they're really against churning. They're all about educating the client. And there are actually only 208 of us in the country. So that's a number. But for me part of ethics is fully disclosing and being transparent. And so if you wanted to kind of pull up that first one th this is a typical you know this is a typical disclosure that I'll see that's part of the disclosure package that we do when we quote a loan. And this is what you're going to get from big box lender. You know where they're quoting the required 30-year fix. They're recording the required one-year annual and then they're quoting a one-year or a one-mon adjustable rate and since your principal limit or your loan amount is simply a function of the age of the youngest borrower and the interest rate, we always end up going with the one-year monthly adjustable. That's going to get you the biggest loan amount. It's going to be a line of credit that's going to grow. That's the one you're going to go to. However, like you know, with big box lenders, they're trying to make a number, you know, and every company has whatever they need to make for however many bodies they need to support. And so, they're going to show you a Okay, hold on. Now, this is where you have to be political and I don't because they're your colleagues and your competitors and you have to be

2:04 Friendly and you're in the industry. But I can say it as it is, which is big companies are focused on profits to their shareholders, not building a business based on their personal professional reputation. Like those of us who have customers, I.e., I'm a real estate broker. Todd is a mortgage originator. And so he's not going to just make, you know, what's the saying? Sheep get skinned but pig get slaughtered. You make a living by shearing a sheep once a year. Which is healthy for it. But if you're killing pigs as the big box lender, that's the term he's using. Yeah. And I don't want to name names, you know, like Rocket Mortgage. I don't want to name names of big companies that do that to their customers. But what happens is they don't care because their marketing is going to drive enough loans to replace their bad reputation. Whereas an originator like Todd has to not just do what's right for the customer because it's right, but he has to do it because that's his reputation going forward in the long run. Okay. So, I'm off my soap box. Now you can be I can be polite about it, Todd. Sorry. Go ahead. Yep. I just use big box to be to be polite. U but like the first thing that I always educate buyers on is the one number that is the most important number in a reverse mortgage transaction is the margin. And so like a big box lender is going to just show you a margin. They're going to show you one which is going to be highly profitable to them. And in this case the margin is like two and 38.

3:21 And that would actually be a really friendly margin for what I've seen big box lenders charge. Typically, I'll see a margin of 2.75 2.5. And to give you an idea on that deal, if it's a 100% funded, you're making seven points on the back, you know, a lender, an investor. Whoa. Seven points on 300,000 is $21,000 commission. And that's on the back, you know, that and that's not talking about the front, you know, and the front is, you know, set by FHA or the ceiling is set by FHA, which is 2% of the first 200,000 of appraised value, 1% of the excess up to a maximum of $6,000. And a lot of big box will charge the higher, they'll charge the higher margin, make the big back end, and they're going to charge you that $6,000 origination fee as well. And that is one way of doing business. You know, you're supporting a lot of bodies, you're supporting, you know, TV advertising. That does not come without a cost. So you've got a different way of doing business than when you work with, you know, a smaller, you know, set of originators, brokers, you know, where I don't have to feed them my mouths and I'm not doing, you know, the TV advertising more, you know, most of my business and our business is CRMPs is referral. That's that. So instead of paying Tom Celich, you have me. That's my favorite one is Tom Celich Mortgage, but I don't want to be sued. So, and I love Tom Celich. He's a fellow Trojan discovered at the gym where I used to play basketball. Great guy. But you know, he's advertising for the dark side of the forest. So, you can pay him and then get this loan or what's alternative a customer might face?

4:59 Alternative is page two of our disclosures. You know, which is and to me this is ethics. This is part of like being fully transparent and showing clients that there isn't just one margin. There isn't just the one margin that big box lender showed you, which is very high. And so like as part of an ethical disclosure, I'll still show you the required. I'll still show you the 30-year fixed, the one-year annual, and then I'm going to show you some options that are all going to be lower. So, in this case, I did a margin of 2.125, 1.875, and then 1.625. And then I kind of included the bottom where if you go all the way to that bottom line, you'll kind of see that the lower the margin, and the margin is what we're adding to the one-year Treasury bill to determine your interest rate. The lower that margin, I'm not going to get as much on the back, you know, because the investor is getting a lower interest rate. They're getting a lower yield. So, you're going to you're going to probably pay the origination fee. But then as I increase that margin, I'm going to decrease that origination fee because again, I'm going to be making more money on the back. So, I don't need to charge you six grand on the front if I'm originating a loan at two and an eighth. At two and an eighth margin, I'll make I'll be fine, you know, and you'll get a great deal. 2 and 1 eighth. You know, I don't know that I've ever done one at two and an eighth, you know, because, you know, one thing is that when you kind of disclose and educate a buyer on how the margin affects their cost of borrowing, you know, in this case, you know, the principal limits $327,000 in the first column, but you're saving, you know, a half a percent in rate over the 2.125 margin, you know, all right, so that's 1,600 bucks a year.

6:38 So, if you keep this loan for four years, you know, then all of a sudden you're at 60, you know, 6,800 bucks in extra interest you would pay at that higher rate. And so, the lower margin is the one that makes sense. The lower margin also makes sense because again, your loan amount is a function of the interest rate or the expected rate in this case, which is the 10-year plus your margin. So, the lower that interest rate, the higher your principal limit's going to be. So you'll kind of see that in that middle column where the margin is 2.125% a borrower is only getting 308,000. I'm making a ton of money. And imagine if I making that at 2 and 38 or 2 and 58 on the margin, which is big box. That's going to really curtail your principal limit. You're going to be need to bring more money to the table on a purchase. Or you're just not going to have as much money as a credit line if you're doing a refinance or for or if we're just setting up a credit line for you to use as a hedge against retirement assets decline. So the lower the margin, the greater the limit. So, in this case, you're looking at a principal limit of 327 with a margin of 1.65, you know, which is going to be $20,000 more loan than if you didn't pay the origination fee and took the higher interest rate. And so, like in this case, you know, you're probably going to go with the lower one.

7:59 You're probably going to pay the fee because it makes sense. But in this case, like I've educated you on why that's the option rather than just saying here's your option, here's the only interest rate. And margin are typically between 1.5 is about the lowest I've seen and at 1.5 you're paying points. And I've seen margins as high as three. Since we're at the high end of the yield curve where the 10-year Treasury is in the mid4s, you know, we're seeing principal limits that are really low. So, it's harder to make deals work when you have a high margin. If it started at a low margin, you can get more deals to work. And so that's kind of why I like the lower end. But again, I don't I don't have five mouths above me to feed. I don't have to pay Tom Salic. I don't need to charge, you know, and make 40 grand on a on a reverse mortgage, you know, and I do this for free, by the way, for anybody's asking. But I think the there's a couple points here. This gets complicated and we're talking in theory. If you're a borrower, Todd's going to work through your particular case, and you may or may not have a longer or shorter horizon, in which case, one of the other options makes sense, but by disclosing it, you make the best choice. The second thing I know based on my background as a mortgage lender and I was a mortgage banker and I as an executive for a company for a while for those who don't know the reason why the fees are different is the investors on Wall Street the people whose job it is to take their customers money invest and get a return. They're saying well if you pay me a higher margin I'm going to make more money but that loans likely pay off sooner because you know buyers will self- select. Those people who plan to be there forever want a lower margin.

9:32 Those who want a higher margin are going to be are refinanced in a couple years. So I have to be careful with my money. And so there's a price structure that lenders get. But then loan lenders know the actual mortgage companies know that there are certain lender certain loan officers are more greedy. And so they even charge a higher premium for the higher margins because while Wall Street gives them higher amount they may have a limited population that have those loans available. And so as the borrower you're really paying a premium on a premium when you go that route. And I think the there's no right or wrong loan. There's the right or wrong loan for you. Todd's job is to help you make that decision. Or if you're professional advisor working with one of Todd's clients, his job is to help arm you with the right decisions that you can advise your client. How's that for a summary? That's a very good summary. And I think the key here is wherever you end up, educate yourself. You know, like talk to more than one person to make sure that you're getting different viewpoints, different point of view because again, what I may think is the right one for you. Maybe someone else may try and sell a higher product or a different product. You know, for example, if it's a short if this is a two-year, three-year loan, I'm probably not putting you into the FHA product. You know, maybe one of the conventional ones at a higher rate may actually be better because that upfront cost of that 2% mortgage insurance, that's a number. That's a number we have to advertise. So, well, and if the case is, let's say you plan to sell in two years, maybe you want to move and retire in another state with no taxes or health issues or family issues, but you can't move yet. Yeah, the higher margin might make sense because it lowers your cost. And again, it gets down to weighing those options out and being willing to look at those versus just making a phone call based on a handsome is Tom Stock more handsome than me? I just want to know. I guess he literally is a TV star, movie star, so I should be accepting that he is. Is it worth a customer paying $20,000 more over a fiveyear period of their loan? Probably not, I don't think.

11:22 I don't know. Most people wouldn't go for that. Yeah. Yeah. So, to give you an idea, the conventional the proprietary products typically have a margin of 6%, you know, rather than my margin of under two. So, you're paying four points more per year on that loan to offset a 2% FHA mortgage insurance premium. There's the math. And again, a two-year loan, I would find another way to do it, you know. Yeah. Okay. Well, and I think the other part is the thing about Todd that comes across is I see you are CRMP, a CPM, CMPS, which to me the most important thing is that you've been educated and that you put yourself really on the line to educate people. So, talk about what's the typical process meaning if I'm if I am foolish enough to I'm at home watching Oprah Winfrey and I get an advertisement in between the 15 pharmaceutical ads, I get Tom Celich telling me I need a reverse mortgage and I call that number. I'm going to talk to somebody on the phone. Maybe they're in America, maybe they're not. And I imagine at some point though, I'll see a human being or maybe I won't. Maybe it's all online or maybe it's all Zoom. If I talk to you though, if I call you, if I call Todd toodwalk.com or your phone number, what's that look like? What's that what's the process of consultation look like as a professional for you? You know, especially with you know, the population for this product is older. You know, I tell my typical client is late 60s, 70s, some into their 80s. And so, you know, on the phone, you can do some, you know, so for me on the phone, we're getting kind of the basics so I can structure, you know, is the goal to pay off debt so that you can get by on your social security? Is the goal to set up an income stream so that you can, you know, get by on your social security? But then from there, I would say 90% of the time we're doing an in-home consultation or at the office. A lot of these people don't like to drive or can't drive. I meet your kids, you know, I'll talk to your financial planner. And so it's a lot more personal you know than just on the phone you know and I will come to your house and pick up documents and you

13:26 Know some you know in my neighborhood or in my area sometimes they want to go to a bar and I'm like I am all about talking about a boring topic you know but really it's kind of the pro the first conversation is just overcoming all of the myths around the product where I'm going to take Nana's house And you know we're going to kick someone out when one of you dies. We have to just get through that. That's one conversation, right? Then you know then it's like I have to educate you on why you know the opportunity cost of pulling money out of stocks to make your forward mortgage payment. I have to you know kind of educate you that 3% note rate that sounds really good isn't once you figure out that you're paying 30% taxes on that IRA distribution that you need to take out to make that payment. All of a sudden that 3% note rate is closer to five, you know. So, I'm educating you on different things that you aren't going to get from most of these call center originators that they're not going to go that deep. And some of my clients don't have don't want to go that deep and I'll keep a shower for you know, and I'm like, if this is what we want to do, here's why this works. Here's why a tenor payment works for you. Here's why we just need to get you know, out of that first mortgage with that's a forward mortgage payment so your kids don't have to support you. You know, it's kind of figuring out why you're here in the first place and then kind of building from there. You know, for example, signing the application package, which all my clients appreciate. It that's two hours because like we're going to go over disclosures and we're going to explain some things to you and oh wow you're going to know this product you know it's like no one's going to come back later and say you know you didn't tell me this you know how did I not know that because I will over educate you to the point where you're saying quiet but that's this pro this process it's a slower process you know you do your home buyer education we have the you know the cooling off period in California you know so a week later we're actually signing the application During that week, we're like putting everything together so we're ready to push play on day one of cooling off period. But it's a different

15:30 Process. It's a different animal. And I kind of prefer it because it's not so high pace where I'm in an escrow and I need to close in 21 days and in this sense in this group of clients, you know, that's just not the way they operate. So these lines take longer. You have to have more patience. You're answering the same questions. You're getting to know them more as people than you do in a forward mortgage. And so it's just a lot I like because it's just a lot more personal than what's your rate what you know I need to close you know that which we have that but well I think there's two parts to your education. One is to get the customer comfortable to really even evaluating reverse mortgage as a tool. Meaning even when they even when they initially call there is such a reputation that goes this product before the product that you're selling what I call reverse mortgage 1.0 before it's all performed and I think that you know out of habit and I was one of those where people say I'm going to get a reverse mortgage. Wow that's very expensive. Are you sure? Or you're gonna lose the house or this or that from somebody who's not educated. Somebody who was educated 20 years ago is really not educated because this is a different product today. So there's that education which is what we're doing here today. Yep. And then there's really holding their hand through the process where they can make the right choice which we talked about and then through that through the process of getting the loan and getting at a at a pace they do. And that's why I think it's so important to have professionals rather than just a call center because this is a very complicated process. It's educators versus salespeople, you know, it's kind of the thing. I agree. You know, you call the wrong person, you're getting sold the product rather than educated on the product, you know, and then we kind of do everything it takes to put that loan together. 100%. One of my passions is that and I have another podcast on estate planning is that as a real estate salesperson, we should be much more involved in the discussion of do you have an estate plan as evidenced by how you hold title to the property.

17:26 Mortgage originators, you kind of overlap that same thing. The you know the hard part for a traditional l mortgage lender or forward to use that term is that oftentimes by time they're calling you they're trying to get an escrow and you risk holding up the sale and there's a lot to do in an estate plan with a reverse mortgage there's a little more time but of course at the same time people can be overwhelmed I can see why you may not want to reduce that because u it's enough to get them from zero to the reverse mortgage done yet we all understand the inherent advantages so how do you offset the opportunity of sharing with people what will create value for them as well as maybe introduce yourself or support a referral source versus just overwhelming your customer. They have so much paper going on. Why would you want to add a whole another notebook of papers? So that is a very you measure but that is you have to have a trust in California. You know the probate fees in my county in the state I think are set by statute. You know so you got a million dollar house. I think you have a $22,000 probate by statute or you can spend, you know, three grand, four grand to get a trust put together. So, we have that conversation 100% of the time even if it's going to overwhelm them. I'll not talk about like, you know, the counseling process. I will talk about like, you know, getting the estate planned properly because, you know, they're all talking about like, well, we want to pass this on to our kids or we want to preserve value. And I'm like, well, that's the number one place you got to start. There's 20 grand off the top, you know. So, that isation we always have. Sometimes we'll do it in the escrow. Sometimes it has to be done after. With the HUD changes, you can't change beneficiaries. You know, we have to re kind of re restate the trust basically. So, that little technical there, but like that would be a time where we maybe push that, you know, push post. 100% of the time though, a trust or how they're vested is in this conversation. You have parents that are in title with their child. Well, you change how this ends when parents die. On a reverse mortgage, the heirs can purchase the property for

19:31 95% of the appraised value or they could pay full price and keep the equity, but you lose that 95% option if the house is upside down when that other person is already in title. So we have title conversations because that's going to affect what happens when there's you a mature a maturity event as we call them. So right so having on title can affect their qualifying or not qualifying and or the rate. Not having them on can affect the transfer of the property afterwards. So these are things again that are complicated. They're not simple. There's no right answer for everybody. There's a right answer for you. And the job is to sit is to talk to your reverse war professional, maybe your attorney, maybe your accountant to get the right answer for you individually. Always I always refer to like an estate planning attorney 100% of the time. I'm not an attorney. I can't give you advice. I can tell you need one. That's and I would do it, you know. So that is one of the conversations for sure. Yeah. So when I started this, I think you and I talked about this previously, Todd, but for the sake of anybody who's watching this, when I started this podcast, I had a thesis, which is as an industry, we should be doing 10 times the number of reverse mortgages than we are. We should be doing more people instead of paying cash should get a reverse mortgage on their purchase, if nothing else, just to have the money available. That people who have homes free and clear like those people whose homes burned down at the Palisades, if they had a reverse mortgage, they could access that equity.

20:52 Now they got to wait for the insurance company to pay off and even that's a whole another question mark and so I feel like we should do a and I my estimate is about 10 times as many as we do in an industry that's really struggling. When you talk to particularly forward mortgage originators, real estate agents and even reverse mortgage originators, they'll talk about how tough the market is because of the rising interest rates. Yet there seems to be such an untapped ocean of business. What do we do to make those opportunities available both for our customers getting the service? I think they need as well as you and me to get more business. What do we have to do in order to reach out and effect that because we know that demand is there really not being served? The demand is there and like you're kind of part of that process, you know, by doing a podcast to kind of educate people. That's the biggest one. Welcome to the internet. Thank you internet. That's a big one, you know. Number two is you know, just as a as an originator, when I meet a new when I meet a new agent, like I'll educate them on the reverse mortgage process. That's, you know, reverse is most of my business. I've got 40 years of experience in lending, which means that I get a lot of tough deals that get turned down. We have a lot of leasehold in our market, which is unique. So, I still get forward mortgage calls, but I'll just like kind of take that conversation to reverse because in Palm Springs, you know, this is kind of our client of 62 year old plus, so this is an option for them. And I always say like, let me educate buyer on this.

22:16 We'll still probably do a forward, but they need to know about this product. The other one is for, you know, as a as a company, Contempo, you know, we're big locally in leasehold and pretty much reverse. And so, like we do a lot with the board of Realtors® to kind of get them educated. But I think you're kind of it's kind of a multi-pronged approach, you know, it's direct mail to existing clients. It's, you know, it's educating every new client, every new Realtor® that I come up against and, you know, and they're just doing kind of education opportunities through our Realtor® associations here in the Coachell Valley. So, okay. Now, I'm just a curious guy. Forgive me if it's too personal. I saw your background. It look very clean, neat, and I assumed it was virtual, but I see a cat in the background. So, either you have a great background with a with a distracting video or this is a live picture and you actually have a cat. Which is it? This is a live. This is my house. So, this is, you know, okay. You know, it's like we have brick and mortar downtown, but like it's a dark office and, you know, so I work, you know, most of the time I'm working from home. Because I'm like driving someone's house. What wasn't that? I know. I assume you're a house and I'm in my house in the bedroom of my home. It was more of the is it virtual or is that is that a fake cat in the background or is that a real cat? Cuz your house looks too nice and neat and clean and freshly painted to be real.

23:36 And 10 times out of 10 that cat is here when he she sees me on video. It's like, "Oh, I'm gonna come up and like visit." And so that she's over there and not here because 100% of the time. Well, I don't get along. So I'm allergic to cats. So for me, maybe she kind of knows and we'll stay away. My nose appreciates that. So thank you so much. Okay. So yeah, education. So education I think is the key. And then also what percentage of your business again if it's personal, I'm just a curious guy. So don't take it personal and you tell me no. What percent of your business is a direct to consumer where it's a past client or friend of a friend versus professional referrals I.e. Accountants, attorneys, estate planners and those types or fellow richers. And what's the mix of professionals that you get your business from? It's like 5050 like I'm part of a networking group. You know, oddly just like, at the gym I go to, we are all 60some in that age. And so, like, people just get to know me as, oh, you do that. Like, they know I'm an originator because there everybody down here in Palm Springs is a Realtor®, a massage therapist, or a mortgage broker, you know? So, they know me as different. Nobody thinks you're a weightlifter, I guess. Huh. I was. Oh, okay. Okay. There you go. I used to bench 310. That's, you know. Oh, wow. That's legit. That's legit. But at 60, you know, you have to kind of like stop hurting yourself. Stop your body tells you no. Okay. So, but I would say it's 50-50 and you know the some of the originators that we had talked to at the latest conference like you know personal referrals are most of your business you know and in Palm Springs and I think that has kind of become is going to be where this goes as I'm entering the age you know I'll be 60 in a couple of months so my sphere is all you know 62 plus so it's going to be more and more it'll be more referrals so it seemed to me then if your business is mostly referrals mostly consumer referrals I.e. Friends, family, cy friends that keeping in touch with them both

25:38 Explaining what you do because like nobody knows what you do. I don't know if this is your case but in my case like I was a lender early in my career, and for many years now I've been a full-time real estate broker. Nobody in my life knows I'm no longer a lender. I don't know what it is. I It's like, are you kidding me? I send out a million emails, Facebooks, LinkedIn videos, YouTube. I've got 7,000 followers on YouTube. I do videos every day. Nobody knows what I do. It's the most amazing thing. So, what do you do? Obviously, you've been successful at it. What do you do to stay in front of the people you've met who today have no interest in any mortgage or any finance, but two, three years from now will. What do you do to stay in front of them so that when they have questions they call you rather than god forbid the guy who's advertising on television? The right for Tom Cell. Yeah. So, you know, and I love Tom C. Don't get me wrong. I love Tom C. Henry Winkler, you know. Yeah. Big fan. Big fan. Just not just don't like the service. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. So, you I just recently went through cancer treatment and you know during cancer it's like okay I'm asking myself these same questions. So, you know, right after we recorded a set of 10 videos that we're editing. You know, and then I had during cancer, I like had a professional reverse mortgage page put together, worked on search engine optimization. So that is going to be segment one. And, you know, and then we're going to start doing the, you know, videos to like, you know, basically be, you know, expert in class, you know, to kind of present yourself that way, you know, because to me it's more I'm going to be more of someone you come to because of my educationally, you know, right? Rather than you coming to me because like I'm, you know, pounding you with, you know, you need to work with me. So that's going to be the main one is just kind of education. It's like I'm more of a soft cell, you know, than a than an intro.

27:33 I'm more of an introvert. So, we, you know, we do business a little bit differently, but it's really important to you just in preparing and full disclosure, we did this interview a few months ago and due to my technical incompetence, we lost the video. So, we're reshooting this episode. And we've met before, we met in person. So, but one thing that's clear to me about you is it's really important to you that you come across as technically providing options to your customers. Like it's really important that they know the options that you really care about that everybody has something that's important to them and that is to you and that's where the education of the consumer comes in. So, you know, congratulations and I think on behalf of the industry, thank you for making that. I never once heard you talk about maximizing your revenue or your service fee or your throughput of deals. I've always heard you talk about how you make sure the customer gets the right deal. It is and it's kind of interesting. It's like it's I'm also a courtappointed special advocate and Kasus what we do is we have a great cape for kids in the foster care system in court. So kids have, you know, mom's got an attorney, dad's got an attorney, kids got an attorney, kids got a social worker. But nobody ever asks like what does that kid want? And so that's CASA is we are their voice, you know, and so when I have the elevator speech with people when I'm meeting them at a bar because like the I don't want to go out and say I'm a reverse mortgage salesperson, you know, that's like that's an instant turnoff. I'll actually lead with CASA and I'll explain that program to them and then they're actually interested in talking to you knowing that, you know, you're not all about just selling them product that, you know, I get to tell them what we do, you know, to help foster care kids. And also if you're CASA is a great program. Kids with CASAs are twice as likely to graduate high school.

29:14 They are unlikely to end up in prison. 75% of our incarcerated have experience with the, you know, with the court system and we come out with that. So, it's a great program. So, I then blend into reverse mortgage is to because if I can advocate for a kid in court, I can advocate for you know, with an underwriter. So yeah, so CASA, child advocate court appointed court appointed special advocates. Yeah. Yeah. Court appointed special advocate. Wow. And I've seen them being a probate court. I've seen on occasion. They're more common I think in family court or criminal court. Family court. Yeah. Family come to court for sure. Which I haven't spent a lot of time in but a little bit and I come across that. So well thank you for your service on that because that's one of my videos of who am I? You know and part of it is gossip endless. Talk about endless talk about markets with endless supply of customers potentially. That one unfortunately heartbreaking is true and so many of the cases are older and aging out of the business. There's, you know, nobody's very few people aspire to get into that and go into college and learn how to do it. So, you're really filling a need there that's probably never ending. It's volunteer, you know, and you're there. My sister-in-law did it and she had her kid for nine and a half years, you know. Wow. I don't think of breaking confidence, but my, you know, my kid's 12, you know, so like wow, it could be a nineyear process. So, and that's what you're there for. You're in there for the long run. It's not to if you want to feel good for a year, go walk dogs. You know, don't take on this role. You were the most stable person in this kid's life most of the time. So, you know, I used to volunteer at Special Olympics. I was single and then I was married. We had a child and we only had one. We tried to have more and I always thought maybe have a little extra room in my day to help somebody who doesn't have, you know, big brother because and you know, but I didn't want to deny my own daughter and then she ended up getting married and then has kids. Now we have grandkids. So, I kind of missed that. I waited a little too long there, but I really admire people who find ways in their heart to help children, whether their own or somebody else's or all of our children really in your case what you're doing. It's just I mean I've seen unfortunately like

31:18 You mentioned those who don't get support it's not good. Well, yeah. Well, look, I know a bummer here. Todd, I really appreciate your professionalism and standards as far as this business. If somebody wants more information, we have on the board here your name, your cell phone number, and that is your cell phone. Just by the way, I did the triple check myself. 76084500. Such a good number that you got on yourself. Great number. That's fantastic. And Todd at Toddwalcott.com. And if you want to see the website, I think we had up we had up earlier, but I my technical staff that's me a little silly. Toddwalcott.com brings you his contemp lending page. And there's a handsome guy that's Todd as well as his contact information and a lot of great content on reverse mortgages and such to give you more. So Todd, thank you again on behalf of your work for the industry and your friendship and support of the podcast. Really appreciate it. Great to be here. Great to have. And for the rest of you, this is I'm Bill Gross. This is our Reverse Mortgage Podcast. We get together every week with a new episode. We interview top producers, professionals. We really want to raise the standard, the service that the industry gets. And so tune in every week. We also have some managers, some vendors that help as well serve our customers in the field. I'm a real estate broker serving Los Angeles and California probate and trust related real estate. If I can help anyway, please reach out at Bill Gross Probate on all social media. Call, text, email.

32:36 If you have somebody that you think I should be interviewing or you are somebody who should be interviewed, feel free to reach out as well. As always, make today your best day ever. Thank