Freedom Can Be a Reality With a Reverse Mortgage, with Brian Bailey

0:01 [sighs and gasps] Freedom, well, it's not just a dream but a reality with Brian Bailey where freedom is just a another word for not having a forward mortgage payment every month if you get the right reverse mortgage strategy. Brian Bailey is really one of the top originators. He's a certified reverse mortgage professional and one of the first I met when I launched this podcast and expert in the business. We did another episode. I was just watching it a few months ago on preparing for the reverse mortgage. I think it we just he just did a great job explaining that process and capacity issues for people. Brian, thank you for coming back to Reverse Mortgage Podcast. Well, thank you, Bill. You're too kind. I really enjoy being here and I enjoy love what you're doing for everybody, whether the consumer, other LOs, or industry partners. Just really shedding the light on the product that needs a lot more publicity on it. Thanks. I think there's plenty there to talk about that's real. I think that's what for me that makes it so interesting. And talking to people like you makes it interesting because this is real for you. You don't just talk about reverse mortgages as a tool for people to experience but you use it yourself to experience freedom. Case in point, where the heck are you? What's behind you? Where are you? Okay. Yeah. I haven't necessarily used I'm not I'm only 53, so I don't have a reverse yet, but I do have the concept of freedom and that was some years back my wife and I we sold the house, sold everything we owned, and we went RVing for 3 years. And I actually I think I have a podcast interview with Kristina Harms where she's interviewing me inside my RV.

1:36 But we did the we did that for 3 years and then went back to living in a house for a couple years and then now we're kind of saving to try to save up for buy some land and build a house. So, we're enjoying the freedom we have and I actually built what's called an overlanding rig or overlander. So, this is the truck and I actually this is a F350 dually that used to be

2:04 The RV. And now it's now it's I converted it to singles and I have my freezer, my fridge, bunch of other stuff, and you can see it's got a big 270 awning. There's the tent up top and Dude, this is legit.

2:27 Bathroom, everything. All the things that the wife demanded have it as. You know, I live in a very congested area of Los Angeles and so we parking is an issue, driving down the streets is an issue, so I can't drive but a compact car comfortably. My neighbor down the street owns a contracting company. He's like a legitimate contractor. You know, big you know, big commercial size company. And he has a Ford F350. Like that now if people don't know, that's like the legitimate commercial grade, everything's upgraded, everything is serious. This is not for just playing around playing cowboy weekends. This is like a real for going off road, going in the desert, going hauling a bunch of stuff. Serious stuff. So this is your approach. And I think there are people who, you know, have a dream. Maybe it's sell a house, maybe it's to you know, leave their home, box it up, and maybe they live in the north and go south for the winter or they're down south and go north for the summer. Talk a bit about how you've been able to help customers achieve their freedom and what some of the tools you think you offer them to help them do that. So, yeah, this isn't something like just a concept. It's what I've seen customers do. I got a customer, Maggie and Butch, they had a dance studio. They ended up doing a reverse. Actually we then we turned around refinanced the reverse and they pulled out extra cash, bought an RV, and they've been full-timing. They still have their truck. So, I should I guess I shouldn't say full-timing.

3:55 They're getting out of town during the summer, you know, that 3 to 4 months they're going in full-time. And then obviously the their main home is their primary residence. And that's just one of the vast uses of the product. So, when you're looking at a reverse and it gets put into place, you don't have that required monthly mortgage payment the principal and interest portion of the payment. So, that eliminates a major monthly expense, you know, frees up a lot of cash flow, and allows people to kind of go and explore a little bit more. Today I'm in the desert out here in north of Lake Pleasant in northwest of Phoenix. Probably by this weekend I'll be up in the mountains. Just been kind of waiting cuz it was actually had some call for some snow this earlier this week, so I was like, I'll wait until that's done. But you know, as soon as the wife gets back, she's in Bolivia right now visiting family. As soon as she gets back, we're hitting Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho,

5:01 Wow. Vancouver Island, and then coming back down through California, your neck of the woods. So, you know, it's that freedom. And we wouldn't be able to do that if we had debt. That's another use of the of the reverse mortgage. Pay off existing debts. Get rid of that bill, whether it's credit cards and medical bills. Reduce that financial stress. There's, you know, just this burden that we have as individuals and especially as seniors because again as the inflation has gone up and the cost of living gone up and everything is just pinching and the seniors' income is just get it's just getting squeezed and squeezed and squeezed. Squeeze. So, this kind of allows seniors to age in place. It gets them flexible options on how like maybe they want to pull a cash out and go buy a cabin. I have one customer, they have a place here in Phoenix and they have a cabin up in Star Valley Ranch in Wyoming. Very nice. You know, allows them to do that back and forth. So, some it's the freedom of like not having to be a Walmart agreeter at Walmart. And some it's the freedom to allow them to have houses in two different places. Some of them want to go do what I do what I'm doing. And some of them just want an extra monthly payment and just put a jacuzzi in the backyard or a pool, you know, whatever. It gives you options when options aren't available.

6:31 For the record, I don't like to go anywhere where I can't walk or take a waymo. I live in West Los Angeles. So, you're living the exact opposite life of mine, but I can imagine in some regards I have some freedom from having some success that it gives me a chance to do things I otherwise can't do. And yet there are other things I still can't do cuz I don't have the extra freedom. And so it's a spectrum that we all want to work on and maximize. I think the one of the things that got me into as a real estate broker researching reverse mortgages were the people who don't exercise that freedom but have the same equity. Meaning I had I had one customer particularly who had a house I want to say it's worth about 800,000, paid off free and clear. Or her she was a widow. Her husband passed away. Her husband was a war hero. Raised her family. You know, did everything you're supposed to do. I'm sorry, her father. Father and mother, war hero. Parents pass. Le- leave the house. She's living in a nursing home on whatever you get from the government, I guess disability or something, in some disgusting nursing home facility in Pennsylvania. Because they didn't have any equity they could get till they sold the house. In my case it was a probate situation. But really there's no reason why they could not with a reverse mortgage pulled out 50, 100,000, got a an RV, bought a small place, rented a place for 6 months or a year ahead of time, and took the money monthly to pay to supplement their income. And so they go from like, you know, rags to riches rather than I think I think part of freedom is you know, being able to be consistent and have a plan and be able to achieve your plan. So, talk a bit about you know, look, it's not like you're living off a $300 yacht in the Caribbean, but your sense of freedom is your ability to do what you want to do.

8:18 What do customers do when they realize, you mean I could I can actually take some of the equity? I don't qualify for a loan, but I can get a loan and I can pay off the debts and I can What is that like when you talk to them and point that out to them? A [gasps] lot of it's disbelief. A lot of it takes some convincing for them to realize like cuz they're kind of waiting for the catch. They're waiting for the hook. And what's really cool, and this has never happened to me in a forward, never, but it's happened to me so many times in a reverse where they sign on the dotted line and they walk out of the closing with tears in their eyes. They go it all sinks in. You know, like you can just you can you can sense this burden, you know, being taken off their shoulders. And it's like they grew 6 inches. You know what I mean? And you just I never got that with a reverse or with a forward. If anything, forwards are kind of more like, okay, here we go. You know what I mean? Now I got this shackle on my on my ankles for the next 30 years. I mean, people want to buy houses, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't do never gave me that sense of full fulfillment, which is another big reason why I'm in reverse spaces just simply cuz I love what the product does. I love what it does for the clients. I love the diversity of it. You know, some of that freedom is people being a- being able to not have to max out their annuities and be able to use Wade Pfau's coordinated withdrawal strategy and maximize their legacy for their for their children. It just it can be used in so many different ways.

9:57 I think and again, to go back, when I launched this podcast, I had a thesis that our economy should be doing 10 times the reverses we are. When I look at how many people own a house free and clear, and how many people are buying houses for cash, I'm a listing agent. I see these offers all the time for cash. I think to myself, why would you tie it all up into a house? The risks, you know, of having any asset that's so illiquid, that we should have 10 times the business we do, but for the reputation of the product and for the lack of knowledge and understanding of it. And this is a business, I believe, where if you just tell enough people about the opportunity, and get enough of them to down and customize a solution for their situation, you'd have more business than you know what to do with. Or maybe you'd have enough to take off and travel in northern Phoenix

10:50 In a camper, and then go to the mountains when your wife comes back down or something, whatever it is you want to do. But I just I just think that as an industry I'm and so my passion on this has been to try to motivate originators to look at this and say, look, just teach people, you know, how they can customize a strategy for themselves, they'll beat you to the punch to get what's good for them. If you can educate them and they can make an informed decision. So, Yeah. What percentage of your time is spent just educating people about the possibility? 95. 95% I'd be I, you know, we're running a division here at Patriot Pacific, and since back since then have scaled back and I've kind of doing starting a branch of my own and getting things going, but still helping all my LOs, but, you know, it takes time. You have to learn the product. It's just like VA loan, there's so many different nuances of the VA loan that people or USDA that people need to understand. An incredible product. We've got veterans who have been told what their product is, what's available to them, and I still talk to people where they're like, oh, I can use my VA more than once? Or I thought it was a one-and-done kind of thing, or, you know, people who think that, you know, you won't get your offer accepted because it's a VA, and it's like Right. A lot of old-school thinking. Well, reverse is the king of old-school thinking. Right. It's really plagued by that. And so it's requiring a lot of education, not just to the client and the consumer, but the industry partners.

12:19 I need Realtors® to understand, don't be afraid of this. By the way, instead of like if somebody's got $300,000 to put down or to pay cash for a house, they can buy a $600,000 house and put 300 down. Right. You know what I mean? Now, what did that just do to your commission? Right. Not that's what

12:37 Or how many buyers how many buyers can you bring to the table now that are otherwise sitting out? They don't see anything for cash at 300,000, but you show them 600,000 houses with no extra monthly payment, all of a sudden their eyes light up. And how excited those clients would be, you know, back to the my 300 600 concept, you know, the a client that's looking to like pay cash for a $300,000 house versus you show them a 600 and that they can be in it and still not have a pay you know, not a principal and interest payment. Right. Like, this is how I get to live I live my final years? Like, you know, and that's a that's a huge difference between those two homes. So, we just need to get them to understand it, you know, Wade Fales doing you know, Dr. Wade Fales doing a wonderful job with on his side with the financial planners, CPAs I talk to, everyone's super interested in hearing more about it, but, you know, the you know, that's another aspect of the freedom. Okay, so I have to be careful on how much I make because I can't like affect my Medicare, I don't want to affect my taxable income, if I make this much then my social security's taxed, yada, and well, with the reverse, it's tax-free because it's a loan. It's not it's not income. Right. You know, but you have to have everybody in the in the industry, kind of talking and industry meaning financial industry, talking to one another and truly understanding. So, it's not just making sure that the client understands, but it's making sure your Realtors®, your financial planners, your CPAs, your probate guys, you know, all these guys making sure that everyone understands, we're all on the same page, and then we can truly help our customers with the fiduciary responsibility that we have.

14:17 I know you're a leader in the industry, is your focus as you build a team or as you rebuild the team in your case, on taking forward originators and training them, which I know that there's some challenges to that, or is it taking new people maybe some sales experience or training experience and teach them how they can be educators to get the business? Which one is your Obviously, you're always going to get some of both, but what would you focus be if you had to pick one? Well, I just partnered up with a friend of mine. We met at a previous broker, or I was I mentored him, although he kind of knew what he was already doing, but we did a mentorship with him. And we've always stayed in contact, and he just left his previous company and came over and joined with me, and we're going to kind of team up, and he's going to do back shop, and I'm going to do more of the teaching and sales side of things. But in that, he's got a big goal of building a team, and so we have been talking with a number of new people. One's a Realtor®, we just did a reverse mortgage on her parents. And unfortunately, here's that I think it's kind of what we talked about a little bit the last podcast was that planning aspect of it. Her dad was very sick, and he died after clear to close. Like they were getting ready to go to the signing, like they were scheduled to have the signer, the notary come to the hospital, but they had to wait because he had TB, or they had to do a TB test on him and stuff, and he ended up passing away, and then we had to go back to docs and re rewrite everything. Just caused a couple of days delay, but for I don't know, for somebody else that might have that might have killed the deal on them. And so that requires that planning. So anyways, she was so taken by the product. She's like, I love it. I want to get into it. I saw the benefit of it. We got another one in another state that we're not quite licensed in yet. We're waiting for that licensing to come through, and then we're, you know, she's coming on board.

16:13 So, I haven't taken anyone other than when I was doing the division, it's been more of the new LOs because they're kind of on fire, but they're not burned down by the forward side. Cuz I have to fight that, too. All of a sudden I start getting all these investor calls and these calls and those calls, and you're like, oh, I want to focus on reverse, but hey, those other ones pay the bills, too. So, you have to like really manage your time, and Right. That's where I joined up with my partner to kind of help me on that, help keep me focused. I'm a little bit of a, you know, squirrel.

16:49 It's so like I need as much help staying on path as much as I can, so. Well, I know with industry consolidation and AI that increasingly loan originators are the best are doing really well, and the middle ones are buckling up, and the bottom half is really under pressure. And it just seems that the bottom half originators to me are great candidates to become reverse mortgage originators in that they care about people. There was a time as a regular originator that education and service was important. Nowadays, it's all so automated and tied in with brokerages, and there's so much to, you know, there's so much other stuff you can't control, but with a reverse mortgage, it's really more about educating and relation with the customer. It just seems to me that real estate agents I'm sorry, forward originators who, you know, they have the license already, and not all of them. Some of Some are failing because they're not good people. They should be out of business, but I do think there's a pool that I meet that would be well served. And to go back to the point you made on purchases, and I'm a listing agent. People call me with offers all the time with different financing, and I'll get an offer on VA. And I'll call the I'll look at the pre-approval letter and see, is this a VA loan or is this just a guy who out of the, you know, 200 loans he can do, he sees the words VA, and he knows it's a low down payment. And same with a reverse mortgage, and those guys I'm just not going to consider the offer.

18:13 If ever I got an offer on a reverse mortgage, and they called me and said, hey, I saw your podcast, or, you know, I'm a certified residential reverse mortgage professional, and this is not just a side light for me. This is something I do all the time. I've done 20 in the last year, whatever it is. You know, I'm with a I'm with a division that specializes in it, or we have special training. I would be all ears. You know, the problem is, you get the forward guy who wants to do one loan and can't get rid of it, and because he's not really competent. So, it's not the product, I think. It's really the packaging and the presentation that, you know, for those who are listening, if you have a chance to as a Realtor®, if you have a chance to make an offer with a customer on a reverse mortgage, get a pro to front that deal with the listing agent. Don't let your part-time forward mortgage originator try to get those listing agents to accept offers. It's just too competitive a market to do that today. Yeah. And it's a bit hairy. I mean, there's so many different nuances to the reverse product that, you know, especially on a on a purchase, you kind of you need to know what you're doing, and you need to come into it, you know, so that way you don't end up having super long delays, which in a in a purchase scenario, that's never a good thing, No. And it doesn't need to be that way. I mean, I usually tell Realtors® like, give me 45, but plan on 30, just because I never quite know how the senior is going to be, how savvy they are with their electronics and getting me the documents I need, but for the most part, we can get them knocked out pretty darn quick without too many delays on it, so. It's not a product to be afraid of.

19:53 Well, I would say this, it's not a product to be of with the right professional at the helm. And I if you ever called me on an offer, I'm all ears. Now, they better have a good price, too, but that's another story. But as far as a loan, I would, you know, I would definitely be open to doing it doing accepting offer with reverse mortgage. I would never if the person, you know, isn't CRMP or isn't with a reverse division or doesn't show me a track record of doing them, I just, you know, really do. And I've said this, do you really want to go down that road? Like, do you realize the money you're going to cost your customer if you can't get this thing closed? Do you have any idea? Have you added up the inspection, the appraisal, the time, the risk, liability? So, yeah, that's where that part doesn't work. So one of the thing There's two groups of people that I think when you talk about freedom, they're really talking to. One is the person who has a property free and clear and they're struggling to make the numbers work and they're being frugal, so you don't get a mortgage. Part of freedom is being able to travel and buy things that you want. Talk a bit about that person, the mindset though for them to take a mortgage out. That's a tough leap or tough barrier for them to get over mentally cuz they've told themselves the goal's to pay off the mortgage and you're saying to them, "Well, yeah, but if you take out 20% LTV, 30% LTV, no payment, you can open up some doors." Talk a little bit about that discussion and what that looks like.

21:12 Yeah, I find that discussion's happening less and less. I feel like people are getting a little bit more comfortable with the idea, the old school train of thought, like it's not your home until it's paid free and clear, there's no lien on it. I think that's kind of been subsiding. I think that's definitely a baby boomer thing and I think it's the later years of baby boomers, which are less of the population now. But it is you know, it is a an idea, it's a concept that they have to get through. And again, you have to Most of the time what they're concerned about is it's the three bucket strategy. There's your income, there's your investments, savings, and then there's your home, your equity. And when they start thinking like, "Oh, reverse mortgage, I'm not going to I'm not going to have my home anymore." No, you maintain ownership of your home. Oh, I'm going to end up owing more than the house is worth. Pretty hard to do nowadays. Like, something majorly catastrophic would happen and you probably would that would be your last concern. And really, that wouldn't be such a bad thing because I think the way if it's a HECM, home equity conversion mortgage, FHA product, I think your family member could buy the house out at 95% of the fair market value. So, they're going to get a 5% discount on top of it. What So, you want to keep the house? Your family's basically rebuying it with a 5% discount. Like, that could wipe out all the upside down if there was negative equity.

22:44 Either the cost of the loan to get to pay off the loan or 95% of the appraised value, whichever is less. Whichever is in the best interest of you as the as the heir, that's what you get. That's phenomenal opportunity you just don't get with regular mortgages. It's again, just every angle of this product, the more you look at it, the more options there are. I always refer to it and I know I know that you as a regional think of this as me denigrating your product and I don't mean it this way cuz I love my Swiss Army knife. I think it's a Swiss Army knife of product. It's not the best 30-year fixed-rate purchase mortgage, but it can be a great mortgage for somebody who wants to buy a house and not have payments. And it's not the best this except for in some cases it is. So, for me, my Swiss Army knife isn't the best knife, but it's the one right at my desk that I can reach and use when I need it and get the job done and get results. And I feel like the reverse mortgage may or may not be the right mortgage for everybody, but it could be the right mortgage for you if you a, b, c, and D, talk to somebody who's an expert and figure that out and then the result can be you can enjoy some freedom and you can buy an F-350 truck with a refrigerator and a freezer.

23:50 And a shower and a toilet and all that. Wow. Wow, and live out in the desert in Arizona. That's fantastic. I know we talked a little bit before we started today about AI as a businessperson. I know you have a coach or consultant you work with on that. Talk a little bit about how you see this and how you're integrating it into your business. You know, it's funny cuz my wife really started biting into AI before me. I'm a I'm a techy person. I went to school for IT. I but I've gotten less and less as I've gotten older. I'm kind of like, "Man, if I didn't do this for a living, I wouldn't even have an iPad or a computer. I'd get a flip phone. You give me the ladybug phone where it only calls my wife. I'd be fine with it." but with this AI stuff coming up and everything, I heard her talking and she was using pronouns like, you know, I talked to him I talked to him and this and that and I'm like, "Sweetie, don't give it a don't make it human. It's a it's a machine." But then now that I'm looking at it and I've been going through these consultants and kind of building up my AI platform on what it can be used for and such, it becomes a majorly powerful tool in the sense that for whether it's, you know, marketing in some of that aspect of it or it's the idea that it frees up time. With some quick prompting, I can find certain little details, like what's going on. The lenders, especially in the proprietary product, whether you're Longbridge or Freedom or Team You know, these guys all have these proprietary products, but things are constantly changing. So, you can take those little news clippings, throw it in, and then when you prompt, you can find out what those answers are really quick and accurate and help your client better. So, that's a good thing. It can't replace us. I don't think it's there to do that aspect of it. There's just too many different nuances, too many different uniquenesses

25:53 To it. But allows me to be efficient, allows me to focus on the instruction, going out and teach. It's not going to get up in front of a room full of CFPs or CPAs or Realtors® and teach a CE class, but it allows me the freedom to be actually be able and go do those things cuz I'm less bogged down with certain little minute details that me as who I am, I will get sidetracked really quick with them. So, that's how AI has been really good for me. As you kind of head towards wrapping up here, the last area topic I wanted to talk about was for after the reverse mortgage. You and I did a great episode a few months ago. We talked about preparing before the reverse mortgage. We talked about issues of competency and issues of documentation. But I really believe that a lot of the problems with this product are as result of dropping the ball afterwards. Not by you, but by the industry as a general. And what I mean by that is people get the loan, they close it, they get the commission, move on. But part of this product is it the loan stays in place until the borrower passes or the borrower and their spouse pass, and then something has to happen. And that's not the way it is on a normal transaction or should I say on a forward transaction. And so, I mean, literally, I had, you know, client call me last week, an originator, did a reverse mortgage, mom and dad passed. The son's all nervous because he waited and he has a letter he's facing foreclosure. And you know, some of these reverse mortgage companies just immediately sell the servicing rights to a company that's going to take it as fast as it can, especially in California, to foreclosure.

27:30 Yet, this guy called me cuz he was an originator who'd been in contact with this family, who had talked to the son, who prepared him, said, "When the time comes, let's talk. I can help you out of this situation." In this case, he needed some help with an attorney and was able to provide that. So, talk a little bit about what you try to do to post-closing with your customer, help them continue to enjoy the benefits of this product, whether it be come back to you for analysis and maybe a redo or refinance or just in general when they pass, how the family can effectively take this product forward. You know, and at the one of the misconceptions or one of the hard parts about reverse is dealing with the adult children. And by adult children, I mean children, but like the heirs and stuff to understand because they start getting a little bit nervous about their parents being taken advantage of. I try to instead of running away from that, I hit it head-on and say, you know, bring them to the table. Let's talk, you know? And some of my some of them don't want the kids involved. Like, I don't need to ask their permission. I'll do whatever I want. I'm like, "Okay, well, at least do an introduction later on, so that way I know they have my number and they know they can call me and talk to me." but you have to prep them, you know, like, "Look, every year you're going to get a letter in the mail where you're going to fill this out." And it's a it's an annual occupancy certification. They want to make sure you're still alive. They want to make sure you're still living in the property as it's as it's as your primary residence.

28:57 You know, and let the heirs know that yeah, as soon as soon as those servicers, not necessarily the lenders, but the servicer gets notified of a death certificate of a death, you know, that's occurred, they're asking for that death certificate and they start they start the process. They get they own the and that's really hard for people to understand. And to be honest with you, I think the servicing companies could be a little bit more gentle about how they do it. They get a lot of flak about that, which I think is deserved or owned.

29:29 But it how do you take empathy to the point of, "Hey, I'm really sorry your mom and dad have died, but we need to make decisions here." and then at what point is that appropriate? That's where I let them know like, you know, you have the 6 months to you need to be in touch with the servicer right away. Let them know your intentions, whether you're going to sell or refi or whatever. Show him your intentions by a listing agreement or by a CD or some type of loan documents. And then, you know, you can get a couple extensions. It'll take you up to about a year to get things resolved and you really that should be enough time, but you're not going to hide from them. They know they know about it before probably most of the family knows about it. It's crazy how efficient they are at that. So, you know, really helping sure everybody understand, going through the mortgage statements, making sure they understand they still have to pay their taxes, they still have to pay their HOA. You know, that's why we have to be very careful and that's where Nirmala does really good, especially with the CRMPs, making sure we don't say you've heard me in this in this in this podcast say no payment principal and interest you still have you a payment to be made to the taxman and to the insurance and any property costs like HOAs, keeping your property up to par, making sure that it's not falling apart, broken windows, those kinds of things.

31:08 Squatters. And yeah, and then just trying to stay in touch. You know, I keep I try to call all my clients, you know, at least once a year, maybe twice, you know, depending on the situation and just how are things going and da. Most of the time I've taken the effort to really get to know them and I you know, you ask them personal questions and then how is everything else going? So, it's not just business, you know, cuz when you go through this and you make this emotional connection, these people become friends. It's a different animal. I love it so much to be honest. I just not to sound sappy about it, but it's such a awesome product that I just you know, I don't know of anything second to none to me as far as that goes. Anybody camping out in Northwest Phoenix in a Ford 350 in a camper isn't going to be sappy and if you are sappy, nobody's going to call you that. So, just know. No, Brian, I think that's why I've enjoyed always enjoyed talking to you because you take this really seriously. I think it's great to make money, it's great to be successful in business, but I think better than that is to feel like you're really helping people and I know you do. I think you really helped me get started in this podcast and introduce me to some really good people and I appreciate that you for that. You've done a great job and I'm excited to see your continued growth and success and I appreciate, you know, from time to time sharing with you ideas. So, thank you so much. We're going a little bit over time, so I'm going to kind of have to wrap it up here, but if you want more information, to reach out Brian, reversefinancial.com is a website. And if you want to hear his contact information, it is going to be below as soon as I get There you go. Brian Bailey contact information below, phone number and email and such and if for some reason you can't write down if you're listening to this or something reach out to me, but more glad to make an introduction and for the information. Brian, continued success on your on your reverse mortgage business. Thank you so much for your thought leadership and your leadership with your team. Continued success as you build out your new relationship and look forward to speaking to you going forward. Thank you, Bill. I really appreciate it. Maybe next class I do, I'll send you an invitation to it and you can hop on and see how those go cuz you made a comment about, you know, like not for everyone and I agree it is not

33:11 For everyone, but the product is vast and I think you'd get a get a kick out of that one. I think everybody should look at it. I don't know that it's right for everybody and everybody's situation is different and you know, mathematically it's hard to think of it all through, but everybody who either buys a house for cash or owns a house free and clear should evaluate the advantages and opportunities of reverse mortgage with a professional, not just some company on the 800 number on the cable TV ads, but a real professional who has a vast knowledge of the marketplace cuz I do believe I look at the numbers there are a lot of people who are not taking advantage and not getting the freedom they've enjoyed and worked hard for because of the lack of this knowledge. So, Brian, thank you for being a resource in that. We'll continue to have this conversation. All right, thanks, Bill. Appreciate you. And for the rest of you this Reverse Mortgage Podcast, we get together every week with a new episode, usually with a reverse mortgage originator, not always as good as Brian, but we try to and as well as managers and vendors to help us be more effective with our clients. If I can help in any way, like, reply here, put information discussion, ask questions, subscribe or just reach out to me at Bogos Probate on social media. As always, make today your best day ever.