Is There a Place for AI in Reverse Mortgages? With David Rider

0:02 Welcome to Reverse Mortgage Podcast. I just showed you the little pre-recording. Dave and I were talking and the purpose of this podcast, while I do I want it to be educational. I want it to be interesting. I also want it to be a place where those of us in the industry can gather and share ideas and best practices and challenges and work together and make friendships and make relationships and so we're excited to have David Ryder back to our Reverse Mortgage Podcast. He's a certified Reverse Mortgage Professional with Nexa Mortgage, name to be changed. We'll talk about that in a little bit. And David's in Phoenix, Arizona, but services a number of states. We'll talk about his business. David, thank you for coming back. Oh, it's my pleasure. So good to see you again. It's been a couple of months. It's been a while and yet a lot's happened. And you know, in the kind of our as a warm-up here, one of the topics you got is my favorite topic, which I think that we get a lot of 50,000 view discussion on, but very little boots on the ground, this is how I'm using artificial intelligence. And I would say I use it more and more every day. I spend a lot of time trying to learn how to be more effective. I know it's the future of our industry, so I'm really doing my best to trench my skills, but at the same time, I see very little about how people are really using it. Talk a little bit about where does AI fit in your business today and what are you trying to do, let's say over the next year to make it fit better? So much fun. All right. So we're children of the '70s, so these references will make sense.

1:26 In the last, in my opinion, in the last 60 days, AI has taken such a revolutionary jump. And the only analogy I can give you is when we were growing up, when my sister was born, I was 6 years old and I remember this because they still tease me about it. The only two questions I had about my sister being born is does she have pointy ears and does she bite? The pointy ears came from a reference of a guy named Mr. Spock. I'm sure you can gather the reference. And one of the cool things about that show was they had this little tricorder and they could they could talk to things and it and it worked. And then you had the next generation it became even better. They had an Android, you know. Bill, we have entered the Star Trek generation. We're in it. We are

2:19 Man, that's such a good analogy. Amazing thing. Well, thank you. Here is the amazing thing. So as we know, I'm an AI user and because I have a Google worksheet, I've been really banging you know, Gemini three and trying to make it do stuff and don't get me wrong, it has produced some wonderful content. I'm putting together some things, launching a brand name, doing a DBA and doing this other stuff. So really getting in there, it's helped me up until now, what I've said about AI is it gave everybody the equivalent of a college degree. You know, I'm a high school graduate. I don't know how to put together proposals, but with Gemini, you would not know that because it could it could take that level of knowledge and bring my skill set up to that level, so it looked very professional. Wonderful. And that's how I've been using AI for some time.

3:14 [sighs and gasps] In the last 60 days, I kept hearing these things. So first of all, always looking for a better CRM, always looking for [laughter] all this content coming into our brain. We've got to go there.

3:25 To go there. The CRM the What is that the rainbow or the unicorn of the perfect CRM has been around since I've been in this business, for decades. And this is a repeat, I think, of that, which is the best AI for me. Well, so let me So in my quest for the perfect CRM, and really not the CRM, but a second brain. If you're if you're familiar with the concept of the second brain, we have so much information available to us some now that we got to be able to dump it and massage it and see it, etc. So I ran across this program called Tana, t a n a. And it's a it's not a CRM as in it will email you. It's a CRM as in it can relate everything's in your brain. You know, you're in there, Remax is in there. If I click on Remax, you come up. If I click on you, it connects everything like a spider web. And it was doing AI and I was watching this gal and they kept talking about this Claude. Now, I'm a Gemini guy. I'm a I'm a Google guy. So don't tell me about the, you know, other things, but I wanted to see what it could do with this. And in the last 60 days, here's what I've seen as a difference. AI up until 60 days ago was about me typing in and it producing a report and then me taking action on that report.

4:46 With Claude, it's me talking into it making the plan, and then it goes executes the plan. It's revolutionary. So this is what I refer to as agentic AI, where it goes from being a tool to being an agent, meaning it can do things on your behalf. So can you share kind of again, I won't give away anything proprietary, but I think you can share that is how you're actually putting those agents into place for your business. Sure. So some simple things. First of all, you know, doing the things we've done with AI, business plans, etc. But let's talk about CRMs. So I use a couple of different CRMs. I have connected Claude to all my major programs, so it can read my Google Drive, it can read my emails, it can read my calendar, it can read my Tana, it can read my GoHighLevel. And I don't know if you're this way, but you know, I have this habit of starting things and not always putting the final polish on it. You know, maybe I'm the only one that does that. So with my GoHighLevel account, which is my prospecting CRM, it's to go out there and prospect through the internet, I had it developed about three quarters of the way. I said, let's just see what can happen. I typed I connected it to Claude. I typed in I said, here's the business plan I have for this database.

6:08 Can you go check it out? It came back and said, oh yeah, I see that you're about halfway done. Why don't you let me finish the rest of it?

6:18 [laughter] Now, this is Claude. Now, you're using a paid version of it? And so this is the other I'm cheap. I don't like to I don't like to pay things. So because I have a Google Workspace both through my Nexa Lending and through my own personal domain, you know, effectively Gemini hasn't cost me anything didn't cost me anything additional. And I've been resistant to paying. So I did the free version of Claude just to see what it's like. That lasted for about 15 minutes and Claude's very good. It says, yeah, we let you taste the honey, but oh, you hit it you hit a barrier. You got to either pay us money or wait. And so I upgraded to the next version, which was like $200 a year and that was good and I got to play with it for about an hour and a half before it said, nope, you got to wait 24 hours. I just hit the button and upgraded it to the $100 because that gives me all the things that I want to do. And my thought is this, I know what I pay my virtuals. This is literally so much cheaper than what I pay my virtuals. Now, I it changes my virtuals job. Because no longer is my virtuals my virtual assistant's jobs to do the task. It's now to manage the task with AI. And what's really cool about this is we're building our business, building this branch, re-rebranding everything with AI from the get-go to help things improve as we go through.

7:42 So you use this to do your business plan. Can you give me an example? So it you say that it evaluate your plan and say I can finish the plan. What does it do as an agent as far as activity? I mean, is it sending out Is it reading your database of timing you should reach out to customers and do a follow-up? Is it reaching out to a follow-up campaign?

8:03 Let's go through a couple of things. So programs have built-in capacities, but if you've ever looked at GoHighLevel, it's a raw it's a raw database with no automations or anything. So I designed a plan that said I in a transactional basis, you can understand this. When a transaction comes in, you got to create objects and we got to relate them and stuff like that. That was not built into GoHighLevel. What GoHighLevel is really great at is going out and getting prospects into the system, but it's not good at the transactional stuff. So I designed what I consider to be a transactional database, and then what I did is I gave that design to GoHighLevel Go High or to the Claude. Claude went and wrote the code within GoHighLevel, created the fields, created the automations, did all the work that I'd pay a programmer to do. Wow. So I did, you know, I use Salesforce. I've used it for a long time and I've paid in the past programmers to write customizations and I learned a little bit of the Salesforce code myself and I didn't have to learn how to design something and then I that way I can delegate effectively. And so you're saying that same work, maybe not Salesforce cuz each product is different, but High Level gives you the access to use Claude to do the customizations that otherwise you'd have to learn how to do or hire somebody to do. Yeah, so let's take it one step further cuz you have your limited thinking cap on.

9:26 So what Claude does is it can it can control programs through your Chrome browser. So and I happen to be familiar with Salesforce and I know that Salesforce would come up on a Chrome browser. Yes. You can then open up a window in that Chrome browser, log into Claude, and say, this is the program that I use. I need it to do this. And Claude says, okay, goes does the research. And then it always asks you. In fact, studies have shown it will ask you more than what you would interrupt a flow cuz it has safety in mind. So, say, "Do you want me to do this? This is what I plan on doing." You say yes. Then, "Do you want me to do this?" And you'll watch your screen start clicking around. And these things being added in just like you're typing. So, I read this article from an AI engineer about 2 weeks ago. In fact, I will send it to you cuz I think you'll find it fascinating. And this is what he said. He said, "If you make your living doing this, you're out of business." Yes. Because AI can do this, meaning the things that we make a computer do. Now, is it going to go dig a trench? That's a different story. But as far as all this other stuff, because of agentic AI, Right.

10:44 It can now go do it. The question becomes is are you smart enough to design a plan Right. Or an idea that you can execute that will be profitable. Right. And so, as a real estate agent, you know, I've created a couple. I also, like you, use workspace, Google's product. As a result, you get kind of the paid version of Gemini along that for free. Amazing tools. So, I've used it to create gems for MLS public remarks on listings. Stuff to check it. You know, I keep tweaking it and trying to give it some limits. MLS private remarks, which is different. I use it for reviewing I'll use it for reviewing contracts and reports all the time. It's just amazing tool to, you know, overview something quickly. I can't not also look at it, but it certainly helps me quickly take something and jump on a couple problems right away. So, these tools are these are actually uses. And I think the thing that I would say to anybody watching this is if you have a particular tool or gem or automation you're creating, love to have you share it. I think what's missing in our industry is a lot of classes about AI. And then what I found a couple of them is they're very generic and they're more designed towards the marketer and the coder, which is great. If you're a marketer coder, a transition of a lifetime. But I'm a real estate broker. I sell houses for clients in probate and for attorneys. You're a reverse mortgage professional. And so, you help people get reverse mortgages. And so, what there isn't is people in our vertical saying, "Well, here's what I do and how I use it." and I think that's what's missing. And even with our companies, so, let me ask you that next question. Are there, you know, I know you're a really smart guy. You've obviously done your research.

12:25 Are there resources that you use that are company specific or industry specific? Or is this all something you're doing on your own and creating your own path? Yes and yes. So, for security purposes, Right. You have a big issue with that. Yes.

12:43 Right. None of my loan information is available to anything but within the secure Google workspace and Gemini.

12:54 Right. Okay. And even then, I won't take you know, it's against and I agree 100% it's against company policy. I'm not going to upload bank statements, tax returns, things of that nature you would not upload into a general AI cuz you just don't get to control it. Okay. So, we still do some old-fashioned things that are used internal website programs, lenders programs that would do that stuff for us and do it in a safe and secure manner. So, in that respect, work-related stuff stays within my Google environment. Development stuff of things to build my business can stay in Claude. And I feel very comfortable with that aspect of it. Does your company or is there in the reverse mortgage world a resource where there people are sharing what they're doing with automation that you can either copy and then improve on or copy and use? So, I don't see that in real estate anywhere. No. So, here's

13:54 Oil being sold, but I don't see any actual tools being sold that are effective. No. No. And I would agree with you. It's everybody says it's going to change. And I've, you know, I'm an early adopter. I'll be first to admit the agentic this is my first exposure to agentic, so I can see where that can do. And then as a human, I also look how can this use help me as a human, just in my normal life, especially helping my customers, etc. And so, all this now I created a gem that became a expert landscaper. I took pictures of all my landscaping around my house. I gave it directions, north, south, east, west, all that it and now I have an expert landscaper in my phone. Nice. It can take a look at my grass and say, "Oh, you have dogs."

14:44 [laughter] Well, depending on the size of the dogs and what they're doing, that's not too hard to figure out, but you know, I as a really cur- I'm a very curious person. So, I go for a walk and I'll see like a magnificent tree in my neighborhood. And several of these AIs I the one on my phone is for my personal stuff, I use ChatGPT. I'll take a picture of it and say what kind of tree is it. It'll tell me what kind of tree it is. It's just amazing the depth of information available to us and how we can use it. And again, I do think, you know, at Nexa Corporate, I am I imagine the operations staff is all about these things cuz there's a lot of the people, like you say, typing that can be either replaced or made more powerful. And either one works, but I the what I don't see from, you know, your company, my company, I will share with you at our company convention, our founder, who is a coder actually, Glenn Sanford, did a live session with his laptop and created an app right in front of us. Now, this is way back in October, so the tools have changed since then. He was using I think it was Lovable at the time. And again, he's a coder, but he was showing us what vibe coding was like, which doesn't really require much coding. And in front of us, he created an app where you would upload a home inspection report and get a report that would break out the things that were identified as in concerning and estimate cost to repair them.

16:10 Well, that's a phenomenal tool and he shared it within our company. So, frankly, as a listing agent, I use that sometimes cuz a buyer will come and say, "Oh, we here's a report and we, you know, want a $50,000 credit." And I'll run that report and I'll say, "You only need 12,000." I don't know the hell, you know, it really what cost to repair, but 12,000 is better than 50 and it's a great negotiating tool. And most listing agents don't give them a report. That's the power That's the power of AI is to is to summarize information and use it to, you know, help people

16:39 Your level of information so you don't get taken advantage of. I had a roof repair. I did the same thing. I created a little gem. I went into AI. I talked about roof repairs. I had it do research, average cost per square, gave it my bid, had it do research on the contractor. Did the same thing with furniture. We bought furniture over President's Day weekend. Did I get a good deal or not? Here's my receipt. This is what I bought compared to other prices. Wow, this is what you did. So, from a practical viewpoint, it's at it makes everybody smart if you know how to ask the right questions. And that's and that's the key is being able to ask the right questions. It's also the iterations, right? Doing using it multiple times. If you use a tool once, it's hard to tell if it's going to work again the second time. And usually doesn't and needs some tweaking. If you use a tool 20 times, each time gets a little better. And that's the power of the software is you can give these instructions tell it to get better. Now, let me let me take another level. Are you sharing as a professional who I know at some part of your business is getting referrals from real estate agents, maybe not the focus, but part of it. Do you share this gem as a part of a marketing piece? I would think as a Realtor®, it would it would number one, it may or may not help me. I it turns out I get questions on a roof someone's who are listing I get. Two, I certainly would think a lot of you if I just even saw that you did that, right? We're all getting these YouTube videos on how to do coding and they're very generic or how to make 10,000 TikTok videos, but you're talking about making me more effective in my job or serving my customer. Is that something or do you see something you see yourself sharing in the future these types of tools? Oh, absolutely. So, within So, let me give you example.

18:25 Within the company of Nexa Lending, we had a we have a special program called We got a couple of things. So, but in this particular case, we have a program called Quick Close. It's a way It's our preferred title company. So, the problem was is you had a preferred title company. I had a preferred title company. They were both approved, but I didn't know about yours, you didn't know about mine. Right. So, again, using this as an example of Google workspace, I went into Gemini. I said, "I want to create an app that would allow this." And it allowed me to create an app using all the tools within our workspace that and it created a desktop version and it created a mobile version that I was enabled to share throughout the company. And now everybody in the company has a graphical map. It's updated automatically. They can send out the form. It's a system. Nice. And yes, as a real estate agent, developing gems or developing apps that would help a real estate agent, absolutely, you know, how can we use this to improve people's lives? Yeah. Phenomenal. Yes. Is there So, share with me if you would what cuz there's, you know, my because I watch enough of this and I'm trying to learn it. And I use YouTube as my primary educational channel. I'm inundated with, you know, different videos and a lot of them are just junk. I mean, a lot of them are just somebody copied somebody else's and put an avatar on it and so, are there particular resources that you recommend

19:50 The Yes. What resources do you recommend? So YouTube we get educated the same way and YouTube's a wonderful source, but it is time-consuming to watch. But if you use NotebookLM Yes.

20:05 And you use the NotebookLM YouTube add-on Just got that this week. I made life-changer. You watch a episode of YouTube and says add it to your notebook and goes to notebook and then the notebook will summarize a video and you take a 20-minute video and you make it a 5-minute reading. And then you and then because it has all the context that you already have and now Notebook connects to Gemini Yes. You then go into Gemini and say survey no review all these videos, bring out the five top unique tips da and now and then you can again go in and question it more and more and more. So you've just compressed time. You know it's fascinating. I saw a I watched a YouTube video of an attorney who I really think a lot of. I had him as a guest. He gave a great video, but it was a it was just him kind of with a script outlining the probate process. It's phenomenal. I'm watching I'm watching it I should take notes. I said hold on. I summarized it and I got this great outline that I could use as a PDF to give to consumers and I'm going to reach out to him to interview him again and say you know if you like I'll brand it for you. Anybody wants this you know text me or email me and we'll send you a copy of this outline that covers really A to Z just a really good job. So I think your answer I asked you the question what resources and you're saying the best resources to use the AI to help you implement the AI.

21:33 Yes, because time is the only thing we can't get more of and so if I can compress knowledge to the pertinent parts let's you know let's talk about school. There's Sorry I have a vacuum cleaner emptying. We use AI in the house as well. Wow. So being able the amount of knowledge and this is where that second brain comes in. The amount of knowledge that is coming at us today in a single day is equivalent to the last 2,000 years of information that man has acquired. Yeah. Our brain does not have a way to sort it, think through it, and find the nuggets that we need within our context. Yeah. As what I've come to learn is my personality is actual is actually documentable. You can interview yourself through a Claude or Gemini or whatever and you can make a markdown file that is you. So it's a consistent thing and then you can put it into these second engine type of programs and you can start pulling out ideas. I don't I love to consume information, but consuming information without implementation is wasted. Yes.

22:37 A way to bring it all together Yes. In this fashion Yes. Because this is how the brain works. You and I you've sparked ideas for me. I've written things down. Hopefully I've sparked ideas for you. This is how the brain works. It doesn't look at a structure. So with AI and now the other tool that I didn't tell you about, but Wispr Flow AI which is

22:59 Seen this, but a lot of people talk about Wispr Flow. I've been using speech to text on my iPhone much more than before. Tell me about Wispr Flow and why you use that versus the native iPhone. Okay. So first of all I have it on my Android. I don't have an iPhone and I have it on my computer and you can you can do the AI version. You can also now download a version that stays on your computer, but here's the difference. When you talk into your iPhone and you say hey let's schedule appointment with David for 3:00 on Friday. No, let's make that 4:00 on Friday. That is what shows up. Right.

23:40 The when I say let's schedule an appointment with Bill Friday at 3:00. No, let's make that at 4:00. It just says let's schedule an appointment with Bill at 4:00. Got it. So you use the AI to alter the text not just to take it in and put it in. Yeah, taking it in is been around for a long time, but what the reason why I started with the analogy of we're now into the Star Trek generation is I can now converse with my computer Right. As a human as press two buttons and just talk. Right. And I don't have to do this, which means my thoughts are faster. You know 50 words a minute versus 150 words a minute. One of my challenges I type about it 120 130. So for me you know the bars all higher. People used the speech to text early on are adapting into these tools much more efficiently. I've been using them, but I can say it's a transition for me. Well and again what So here's what I've also learned about AI. Just cuz just like anything else just cuz it has AI behind it does not mean it's more efficient. Right. Right. No, but for I've been I've been coding getting to know you type of thing. Right. This is how we communicate. So just kind of cuz I know this is a question people will ask us and I've got a little longer with you just so we can kind of wrap up a little bit As long as I've been in real estate as a coach the question I always got was what's the best CRM? Right we talk about that. And the idea being that there was a tool that would make me so much more productive efficient there would be you know noticeable in my in my income.

25:21 And I get that same question on AI what's the best AI I should use and I think the answer for both of them is the same which is the one that you're going to use the most and especially the AI in that it's like every week one jumps ahead the other and the and the benchmarks and the capabilities, but then the other one gets it two weeks or three or three days later and if you but if you go in deep with any of these then all that work is compounding versus if you switch back and forth you kind of throwing away and starting all over again kind of like starting with a new CRM. So with somebody looking to start out you know my recommendation's been if your if your you know email is Google go to the Google product. If it's Microsoft Outlook go to the Microsoft product.

26:04 Yes. But if it's not either one of them I think I would start with ChatGPT because it's more ubiquitous more than What's your advice to a reverse mortgage professional or Realtor® who's looking to start and saying I'm behind, but I want to catch up and put some time in. What's the best tool to start with? So I think I think before we say tool and again this is a change that you have to learn. I was when you were talking about this I was thinking about playing the guitar. And [clears throat] the fact of the matter is if I learn the basics of playing a guitar it doesn't matter which guitar I pick up I can play any of them. Yes. I think the same concept has to apply to AI. In other words it doesn't matter if it's ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini how do you interact with AI? How do you learn? Now Gmail being so ubiquitous out there using Gemini to begin you can go into Gemini and say create me a lesson plan on how to learn AI. I did that actually. Somebody suggested that and I started it and I had the AI create the plan for me to implement the AI. Yes.

27:14 And so again now this is the second time you've come back to the same answer and I'm going to try to pay attention this time which is it's interesting it's so different than everything else. Your answer is use the AI to teach you how to use the AI. Yes. Yes.

27:27 That's the that's the recursive or regenerative improvements. The whole point of this thing that we don't see because if you're not an engineer it's not obvious is that these computers are being used to improve themselves. That's why their ability is exploding. And if we as humans can use the AI to help us improve ourselves and then sooner or later that becomes a faster level of improvement for us as well. You know if we had another 30 minutes I would go into the whole concept that as a society we have been a task-oriented society for the last 500 years part A slot B type of thing. What AI is doing is it's removing that and if we don't move to a higher mental level and asking the questions why looking at tasks is not what we do, but something we control then we will in my opinion become irrelevant within society.

28:19 And I don't know if our I don't know if society understands that. You know I don't know that can really think much past 5 or 10 years and I'm 67. So from a business point of view I don't really have to.

28:33 Say that the mistake I see people making is relying on the AI to replace themselves and not do things versus using it to empower them. And so I see a lot of these where you can have an avatar and then the AI can create your own social media and if you if you don't have everything start from scratch, well now you're just creating social media that's like all the other social media versus

28:55 I'm really trying to build my own flavor brand thought processes principles and then use the AI to leverage those

29:05 Amongst along the business. Doing these podcasts is a lot simpler with all the administrative tasks that the AI can do for me to leave me to talking to you and that's the best part of the whole thing. Right. Yeah, the creative part the it can make a suggestion. It can say this is the statistically the best path, but what makes you unique is you. And the cool thing about AI now is you can teach AI who you are. Your branding the way you talk. I was reading an article the other day 45-minute interview with AI with AI this case Claude and it will question you not on what you do because your branding is not on what you do. It's really on what you won't do. And so, it will take you through that process, write a markdown file that now knows you and starts every session by reading that file and knowing, "Oh, this is David and this is who David is and this is how I write, this is what I do, this is how I think, these are the concepts that I do." So, it stays branded, stays consistent, stays on point, which I think helps remove the slop. Yeah. Cuz there's a lot of I see a lot of these tools that people promote and they're very generic. And if you want to adopt the slop lifestyle or slop style, I guess you can, but I really want to focus in on the genuine me, cuz I believe when compared to the average age, I stand out. The more I can be more me, the more I'm going to stand out. I think that's I try to reduce the whole battle to that, I think. The analogy I would give is, because I'm thinking I'm picking up the guitar again, is you can learn to play by sound, you can learn by to play by tabs, or you can actually learn to read sheet music.

30:47 If you learn to read sheet music, you can do everything else. Yes. I play piano and I learned guitar because I knew how to read sheet music. And once I figured out the chords and the strings, it kind of was a lot easier to play than would be to memorize where you put your fingers. That would be, I think, So, the trend of this conversation, if you've noticed, is not one of what tool are you using, it's more of how are you learning how to use the tools.

31:14 Yes. Which I think is really our critical conversation. Yeah. Yeah. And I also feel like relying on yourself and the tool more than any other third party, would be company or industry or even technology, you know, channel. I see a lot of stuff and I see ideas that pop up, but frankly, the 20-minute videos are usually worth about a 5-minute read on a summary page. It's not really worth all that time. Wow, David, very eye-opening. You know, we when we started and we said we talk about AI, I had a sense of where to go, but I really didn't expect us to go this deep. I obviously put a lot of thought into this, a lot of work into this. I appreciate it. I'm sure you also have partners and referral sources that can benefit from this as well and want to reach out. So, I really appreciate you come open the kimono a little bit today and sharing with us what you're working on and what you're doing in the area. Thank you so much. My pleasure, it's my pleasure. It's always fun to talk with you, Bill. And by the way, DAVID DOES REVERSE MORTGAGES.

32:08 [laughter] You know what I do, that's not quite true. Okay. What I do is I help people design ways that they can age in place with dignity and comfort. Wow. Financially, that's important, but you know, when you talk about what drives me, why do I learn this AI? I have a wife that's disabled. I want her life to be comfortable. I want to teach her how to live in this environment and use these tools to enhance her life. Because as we get older, our brain won't work as quickly and these are not that she has anything, you know, terrible wrong with her, but we all get older. I've watched my parents get older, I've watched my clients get older. Yeah. Using these tools to age in comfort, Yes.

32:55 Grace and dignity. The reverse mortgage just helps finance it. Okay. Well, there you go. So, David is a great resource if you're if you or your clients are looking to age with dignity and take advantage of the wealthy of Bill in the most effective way, David, I really appreciate you. He's with Nexa Mortgage and his contact information's down below. Phone number 480-788- 9221. He's located in the Valley of the Sun, Tempe, Arizona. Where do you do where are you licensed to do reverse mortgages or business? Arizona, California, and Tennessee. Okay. Couple of my favorite states, actually, Arizona and California, of course I live here, and Tennessee as well. David, thank you so much for your insights. I really appreciate it and look forward to getting back again and maybe getting an update and going a little deeper on this. My pleasure, Bill. Thank you so much for having me. And for the rest of you, this was a pretty deep insight on how as professional, somebody's using AI. I think for all of us as a as a challenge to be active in the process rather than passive. So, well, hopefully you found it interesting. Love to get your comments, descriptions, email, text, call. And then if you'd like to be interviewed, if you're a reverse mortgage professional and like to be interviewed, or professional works in that space, love to talk to you about that as well. I'm at Bill Gross Probate on social media. As always, make today your best day ever. Thanks so much.