Artificial Intelligence in Reverse Mortgages, with David Rider, CRMP

0:01 I have always made technology my hobby. They help me be more productive in my business. And through the through the years, it's changed what was important for PCs, then later the internet, and now recently artificial intelligence or AI. A lot of hype. Most of AI I see oriented towards real estate agents is misleading. They want you to automate stuff you shouldn't even be doing. Yet, I use artificial intelligence every day for my business. I'm really excited to share today somebody who's knowledgeable on applying artificial intelligence as a reverse mortgage originator, David Rider from NEXA Mortgage. And David, past client past guest on our show. Thanks for coming back. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Bill. Let's talk about the hype and cut through the hype on AI. What How do you actually use? What tools are you using? And what are the actual systems or procedures that you're able to automate to be make yourself more productive or valuable to your customers? Okay. Thanks for asking. So, my I got to share first. My big aha on AI is it's an equalizer. In the in the respect that you may have from either a consumer's viewpoint or a an LO's viewpoint, it helps elevate the field so we can all deal with the same basis. Let me explain in how I use it. So, on a personal level, my preferred engine is Gemini. Real simple. Chat GPT, Gemini, don't care. I happen to have through my work come through NEXA Mortgage, we're a enterprise account with Google. So, we get Gemini. So, that's what I focus on because it stays within my workspace. So, as an LO, that's important to me. And then they all work

1:37 Second. Let me just kind of let me just kind of clarify there. So, A, it's part of the package. I also am a Google enterprise user for my business, and as a result, I have access to Gemini. What's nice is it accesses my Google content, and it doesn't share it cuz you're paying money to be a user as opposed to the free Chat GPT. It keeps the content within Google within my access. And so, therefore, I can share I can analyze personal information that I could not do on a on a public Chat GPT. Yes. And for you're dealing with people's financials and numbers and you know, intimate financial stuff, all the more so you have to be limited in what you can do. Absolutely. So, and the importance of that both from an LO's viewpoint and a consumer's viewpoint is privacy cuz AI learns off the input. So, you got to you got to stop that. Yeah. The other benefit And again, this is not they all do the same thing. They all do the same thing. But the things that we can do, we start with AI as, "Hey, make this sound better." But then there's profiles or personalities or experts. So, I got to I get a lot of emails every single day. I created what's called a gym that said, "You're an email expert. You know how to sort, you know how to read my email and identify projects, identify urgencies, identify this." And I save that little instruction.

3:06 And then when I'm in my Gmail, I can say, "Hey, this is my personality. Gemini, look at my email for the past 3 days and tell me what's going on." Yeah, it has amazing ability. Again, I use Gemini as well as a couple of programs to kind of look back at your workflow and summarize it and kind of remind you of things that maybe you closed the loop on your mind but really need to follow up or worthy of a follow up as well as helping put context what's going on. It's amazing how it can or I had a case where an attorney wanted a list of all the communications on a certain thing. And I've used Google search in the past, and it's not infallible. But the Gemini gave me a much better analysis tool to give to the attorney.

3:51 Well, and you can also one of the ones I did, I said, "Identify pain points." You know, anytime you're in a process business, there's pain points. So, and if your primary communication is an email, which for most people it is, that's where most things start, Right. You can have it go back and look for pain points, things that happen on a reoccurring basis. So, it's great to talk about AI. You know, I have one friend that oh, AI will I mean thing it will change the world. But I want to know the practical uses of it. Yeah.

4:27 So, as an LO, I'm going to use it to identify pain points in my process, to identify consistent consumer questions, things that my eye may not be drawn to cuz I'm in the midst of the business. AI can kind of look at it from a 10,000 viewpoint. It can help me sound more intelligent. I have limited college. I'll be the first to admit. You I can't create, you know, super spreadsheets and stuff, but AI can. Amazing.

4:56 Come up with the AI idea. Yes. And AI does the technical skills. And if you think of it that way, Yeah. And you embrace it, then you're part of what's going forward. And if you shy away from it, quite honestly, as a as a income producer, and we'll just call it that as an income producer, you're going to be left behind or at a strategic disadvantage. So, I try to think of AI just curious I want to share my feedback and get some feedback from you. I just think of AI as three things, the three activities. I put in my to-do list every day to spend 30 minutes doing something in AI just to practice, learn, participate. Sometimes most time it's in Gemini. Often times I use other services to learn what they're doing as well. That's just purely education. So, if I don't get anything out of it other than repetition and learning, that's fine. Second, I do try to use it for things that don't really save me a lot of time or do a lot more like summarizing emails, you know, and I discover, "Wow, that did a better job than I did." Not by or shouting them out, but it did a better job. And for the same time, I'm better by 10, 15%, 50% or whatever. And the third is there's certain heavy lift things that it does that I couldn't possibly do without the AI. One of them is I'll take a video that I liked and I'll summarize In fact, I there's a tool that I use called Note GPT.io that specifically works with YouTube videos.

6:23 I play the video, and it summarizes it and will give takeaways, and you can chat with it to summarize it and put it in the format you want. And so, something that has good content, and I would rather taking notes, that becomes my note taker and go back and review eight points, 10 points. So, that or create something of value. I can send to an attorney or in my case or real estate agent or a you know, manager or client. And so, it becomes like a superpower. Now, that's not so common, but when it is, it is. So, talk a little bit about how do you think about AI because so much is changing. It's coming at us all the time. You're in the midst of your business. You're originating loans, processing loans, getting loans closed. How do you fit it into your workflow? You know, I wrote down what you just what you just said, and it's funny cuz we great minds think alike. So, first quarter, January 1st, I said in my staff, "This is AI quarter. You must use AI on a daily basis. I don't care how, but I'm going to ask you, and you're going to hear keep hearing me say, "Put in AI. Put in AI." Cuz we don't know what we don't know. And so, I got that environment going. And what I find is if you do something for 90 days, not 21 days, but 90 days, it does become a habit. It becomes more of a okay, I'm comfortable with it cuz this thing is scary. So, just like you, I incorporate it every Can I do this in AI? And it's okay to say no, but it's also okay to say yes.

7:50 Like you, and I do it through subscriptions. There's a great YouTube videos out there. I do a Patreon account. I found a real good guy. I'm more than happy to share Yeah. As appropriate with you. Yeah, which one? Just a second, I'll bring him up because I This guy is phenomenal. Right. It Now, I will say this, there's a there's so much information for free that I don't get to that I've looked at signing up, and there's one that I would I liked but I have a conflict with the time of the week of their meeting. And so, I haven't signed up with them as a result. But there's a lot a lot of them. A lot of some of them style. And I'd say 90% it's not viable, and 10% of them are really good. So, when I hear somebody who uses one that's happy with it, I'm definitely all ears. Oh, it's absolutely I'm going to go to his Patreon account as well. So, his Patreon account is fairly inexpensive. And the reason why I like this guy is he's a former marketer, and he gives real life uses of AI. And like you, he looked at several differences. So, his name is Blazing Zebra.

8:59 Blazing Zebra. Yeah. Definitely. He's phenomenal. Now, he has a lot of great free stuff on YouTube. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you start with that for free. Yes. And I've consumed everything he puts out. Yes.

9:11 A Patreon account, which is very inexpensive. I think it's like 10 bucks a month or something crazy. Yeah. But his meeting is on like Tuesday at 11:00. It's a time slot where I just can't make it. And it's the same every week. Right.

9:23 Tell myself, if ever I get out of that other meeting, I'm going to I'm going to sign up for Blazing Zebra. He's phenomenal. Okay, well, there's a hot takeaway for anybody watching this. Check out Blazing Zebra. Good. You have the information. Yeah, he's phenomenal. And in my opinion, if you want to learn, Yeah. His content his paid content is well worth it. Yep, that's him. Because he gives you an extremely detailed step-by-step-by-step-by-step that really makes sense. And again, he creates This is where I learned about those gyms was from him. You know, the other thing I heard you when you start off with the Gemini you also started off with that you use Google already. And I know cuz you're in the mortgage business that's a important question is the privacy part. I said you that's Blazing Zebra. I know that whole talk because I saw the video on it and it kind of bought me into it. I will say I also use some other ones that I pay for security reasons. Okay, well that well that's anybody watching this I'm telling you this guy is good. Blazing Zebra he only he has like 64,000 subscribers videos out. He does really push the Google products because so many people have it I feel with their work and if you do from a privacy point makes sense also from a convenience point you're already in your Google mail the dimension there is fantastic.

10:42 Yep. I want to hit one point on consumer and just for a consumer tip for those consumers out there using AI to check for scams. You know, screenshot drop it into and cuz most people have a Google account and you don't have to have a paid account to do this. You could just do it with your Gmail which does a pretty good job of looking for spammy emails and stuff like that. But if in doubt and you can just ask Jim and I how to do it. It will give you the step-by-step instructions. You can do a screenshot and say is this a scam? Wow. And Jim and I will look for it cuz you know especially when we're talking about our reverse mortgage customers I'm trying to always think of how to protect them. This is where AI can really help you because it can do the thinking for you. Yeah, it is amazing. We live in amazing times. I had experience last week my computer and I have a high-end graphics computer for video work and it was making a loud noise at the fan. And I had bought it through Best Buy this the company I used it through was like a private label through Best Buy. So they have no online there's nobody you can talk to. The online is worthless. I went to Best Buy to the Geek Squad they give me a whole bunch of stuff I could buy for a couple bucks and they'll fix it. And their best guess was you know you probably just have to replace the whole computer.

12:05 I was like really it's probably just the fan. You know I mean I could probably service it myself but you know take time to do that. And so I actually went to Gemini and said you know put in the model number and it's making a lot of noise and it said well here's a couple things you might want to do and ended up replacing the fan and it cost like 50 bucks or something and was a big deal. And so I think this we live in a time now where Google used to have answers but you have to search through a bunch of stuff.

12:31 Now you get the answer in your phone just by asking a question. It's just amazing opportunity and as a business person Well, let's talk about it just from a consumer viewpoint since we hit that for just a second. Staying on the on the Google platform cuz again it's accessible to everybody. NotebookLM. So through Blazing

12:58 I've played with that and I and I watched his videos on that. I just have not figured out how to be productive. So talk about how do you how do you use NotebookLM? What have you done with it that's been productive for you? So I use it in a couple of different ways and I'll tell you how I use it consumer wise and LO wise. So on a consumer wise I dump all the there are normally links into any service manual etc. Of any appliance that you have. NotebookLM lets me drop that link into NotebookLM and now I can throw away the paper or more importantly I can also say I bought it on this date and now I have all my appliance information available to me in case I need any repairs. That's a very practical one. Just from there. I use it for books. I read a lot of books there's a lot of books that I want to read. If you get the PDF version of the book which is pretty easy to do. There's sites that you can get that. You can load that into NotebookLM. Now there is a limit if you get the free account but again I have the paid so I got lots of those. But you can load that book in and cuz a lot of mine are technical books and stuff I can now research my own private library. The key of NotebookLM is I decide what it's going to reference. So it doesn't go anywhere outside my corral. You talked about the YouTube video so you use a different service here's where NotebookLM would help you for that.

14:19 NotebookLM does the same thing it reads the YouTube's translation for lack of a better word. Gives you a summary you can ask it all the questions for that but now you can put 30 of them together and they can start interacting with each other. And there's a an extension that lets you feed it into NotebookLM and I do a notebook per major topic major subject. Got it. I've looked into doing that for each of my podcasts where I put all the episodes in that I could create at the end some sort of a of a GPT that people who want to know more about reverse mortgages or I have probably weekly would be able to get information I'm not sure what value that is. I've been playing with that a little bit haven't come up with anything. How long have you been playing with

15:02 You create better bot podcasts cuz you can see what topics you've talked about a lot what topics you haven't talked about it can look for those keywords. So from an analyst viewpoint from a consumer's viewpoint that's the key with Notebook. You build it is no different than me reaching out and grabbing the notebook behind me. Where do I keep all the information and since it does YouTube videos website links and then of course the beautiful thing is you can create a Google Doc and put all the links in that and it updates it. Yeah.

15:33 Gemini doesn't update a document but NotebookLM when you do updates you can update the source. Nice. So.

15:41 Yeah, I know Notebook has a lot of potential cuz one of those things that I've been playing with and haven't really hit out yet anything productive. I appreciate that I'm going to take another stab at that as a result. Okay, any other last things on AI any other projects I know we had no I so again use it to help you know don't be afraid of it. If you don't embrace it you don't have to be an expert with it. Just play with it. So I agree with you same you know same thing incorporating your life on a on a on purpose basis. Use it to deep diver you can you can dive into your financial statements see where you're spending your money all sorts of things again do that in the Gemini or in the notebook and then yeah creation. Help you get sparking ideas. Wonderful for

16:24 A personal look I walk in head every day for exercise and I'll see a tree I'll just take a picture of the tree and ask what it is it'll give me the whole detail what species it is the days of Google was a step up be to get information and I think this GPT is just another level up whether be by camera or scanning or uploading documents and we have a chance to go a lot deeper. I think we have to set our standards higher. So we'll go we'll check back in.

16:51 Yeah. I said let's check back in we next time we have you on an episode we're going to update on Blazing Zebra and see what else you have from that great input. Again it's interesting I can tell from when you talked he's by far the most actually valuable in terms of productivity of all the AI people talk about. A lot of people talk about the market and the investment and all that's interesting. And all the Realtor® stuff you know they're going to they're going to show you a whole program on how to write your description as a Realtor® does on a listing. Well, that only takes 10-15 minutes anyhow. It's not that hard. Yeah, I've put in AI and played with it and I'm not sure I love the results but I'm working with it a little bit. But that's not a big work activity. I will say it's been great for CMAs because I'll take my Cloud CMA which is a service that I use and I'll and I'll have it search the automated valuation models and then there's a fourth one that I subscribe to I'll upload that one and then get a nice summary of all of that like an executive summary that I can send to a attorney and link all the documents rather than a standard CMA I'm really sending them an email which is all they want. What's the bottom line? What are the main factors behind it and if I want more information where do I go? I give them all that and that's been a nice level up on my material. I don't know that I would say that it's game changer but I like it. I feel proud of the work I do as a result of that. So that's one way I've used it.

18:11 Okay. So AI we had a chance to talk about that and I would say there was a great resource and we interested in more information get back to you on that and also check out Blazing Zebra. Let's talk a little bit about one of the things that I know we spoke about previously that you feel strongly about and I've come to really appreciate is the CRMP designation. I've been in real estate for decades. And I've seen more designations than I have automobiles. I've seen

18:39 You know in a real estate the designation isn't worth the money you pay for it. I've taken five classes of various certifications in the private space. I don't even use any of them in my email. It's just the does the fact I have a designation doesn't mean anything. However the one area I've noticed that when I talk to an originator I can tell if they're high quality or not is CRMP. If they're a CRMP they're a high quality originator. If they're not they may or may not be. But if they're a CRMP you're serious. You're a notch above. You take it serious. You hold yourself to high standards. Talk a little bit about why that is. So right? I love the way you asked the question cuz what this is what popped in my mind of the difference cuz the reality is the designation you and I both know Bill you can buy a designation. You can go to a four-hour class take a quiz while it's top of your mind and boom now you're an expert without ever having done a transaction. Can we agree on that? 100%. Okay. And that's 90 to 95% of all designations if you think about it because with you in real estate we're going to see if we agree on this. What you just said about CRMP I would say because we're old enough about the GRI and then there is the other one that we used to have in real estate for the broker side and I can't think of it off the top of my head, but it was a big deal and here's the difference.

20:03 The CRMP designation requires that you learn it, do it, understand it before you can get certified in it. And here's why that's important. The reverse mortgage product gives you a gives you a lot of freedom and if you're in the business, you know it's also a very it's a good product to sell. It doesn't hurt your pocket though. That attracts a lot of people to it and you don't understand the impacts of it until you've done five, 10, 15 transactions. And if you're not prospecting for it, you it may take you years to get to 15 transactions.

20:43 Right. The CRMP course says, "Hey, before you can even talk to us, you got to show us a continuous 3 years of continuous activity, not a onezie-twozie, or 50 transactions, and a letter from your supervisor that verifies that you've actually lived this world. You've walked this walk." And what that gives me what that gave me perspective for when I went to apply for it is "Oh yeah, now I understand the damage I can cause with this product and I don't want to do that." And that's a decision point. That and that's what changes it.

21:25 There are companies that have people who are certified people who are not or you can refer to somebody in your company who is certified or you can refer to somebody who's not in your company who's certified, right? Those are all different options, but I think the thing that I got is a recognition that there's a value to the expertise. It's not just And again, in real estate, I feel like every agent is who's interested I've expressed interest is interested in I want to get this designation so I can get more deals versus I want to be better at my craft and then more people want to work with me. Yes. Well, and that's just it because you don't you're right, you don't have to get certified. Anybody can do a reverse mortgage. But if you want to use it as something that really impacts people's lives, Right. Then you want to hang around with other experts that aren't telling you how to get more deals. They're we're talking about how to structure a deal to help somebody. And it's a mindset and it's a door that we choose to open and you can so I'll share this experience and the next reverse shirt that I'm wearing is actually is not me. It's a gentleman named Loren Riddick who is one of the founders of the CRMP designation. He helped write the test. He helped get the guidelines together, etc. And he did it for just exactly these reasons of there's a mindset of helping the consumer and it cost you money. Cost me money every year to keep this designation and it's the only money it's the only designation I'll spend money on because it's a mindset that says we're going to help the consumer.

23:02 Yeah. Yeah, I mean I see other designations that like for me I'll take a class and in 4 hours I'll get a couple nuggets here and there. But I see it's one that the other thing is it builds a camaraderie because of the mutual respect. That's also not common. Meaning there are people who have congregate in a class around the teacher, but in the CRMP in particular, I find that they you know they have meetings and they have phone calls and they have this and they have that. And it's not just they have it's that people participate in them because they value their colleagues and the opportunity to learn. Oh, Loren I So, when I walked into this lender and Loren I introduced myself to Loren because I heard there was a reverse guy in this group. So, we go we tend to seek each other out where you know we like minds seek like It's found it's like I found a long lost brother because we both knew that we had a common connection and mindset. Wow.

24:00 Which is servant leadership. So, yeah I it's the only designation I'm proud of. Every other one I've just bought. Wow. Well, I know I reached out to Loren to get as a guest on the program. He'd be a real get. I know I'll you know what I'll help with that. Yeah, I'd love to have him on. He's a great guy. I love the program he runs in every respect and nothing but respect for him and in the company and the way he runs things. So talk a little bit. I know Now, Loren's also with NEXA. Just joined. Just joined. I didn't know that. Okay. I know he was with Yeah, he used to be in the company. I knew that.

24:35 Yes. Wow, congratulations. So, talk a bit what obviously NEXA's a big player in the field, quality player in the field. But talk about building a team. Now, I know you mentioned you have staff. Are you Do you have other originators underneath you? Do you have other originators that So and Loren and I are doing kind of the same thing. So, and again this is kind of that CRMP thing. I want to bring people in and teach them the right way of doing the business. Loren does too, hence the NEXA reverse. He's taken it on a broader scale. For me, I do it on a more one-on-one scale, but yes, the LOs that work in my branch, which is Senior Resources Mortgages, they're trained on how to do reverse mortgage. There it's not I and I don't train them unless it's their passion. If you're just looking to add another leg to your to your tool, no. No, go talk to other people. But if you really want to be passionate about helping the consumer, then you need to be surrounded by like minds. So, I think being able to join a team where this is a specialty and there's a passion to it, again, that's what we do. That's why we're here. The challenge you guys face is there's a lot of opportunity. It's amazing. In my in my estimation as a professional and I this was my thesis when I started and 80 episodes into this, I've only confirmed it.

26:00 There should be 10 times more reverse mortgages done than there are today. Yes. The current economic condition. I'm not talking about Yes. Some new renaissance of real estate America. I'm just saying with the people own houses today and are buying houses today, the same profile. It's going to change, but just today

26:15 We should have 10 times more, but for lack of education, lack of originators, lack of and the poor reputation from years past. And I've talked about that in prior episodes in more detail.

26:25 Yep. And at the same time, the pool of originators to become reverse, you mentioned just to add the leg doesn't really work. It's too complicated. It's a whole different It's a whole different world of product. It's a different sales process. Totally different. Not only that, the originators in my experience are the most transactional of any group in America. Meaning Realtors® are guilty of that to a degree, but good Realtors® learn how to focus on creating value for the customers. Originators, I don't think they ever have. I just feel like it's all interest rate driven and so it so distorts the market that almost all or almost exclusively transactional and as a result, if you're failing and you're transactional person, going to reverse mortgage isn't going to help unless you change your personality, unless you change your style, unless you change your motivation and your out, which doesn't happen. People go into it trying to bring their bad characteristics in another field and monetize it. It doesn't work that way. And so I almost feel like you need to have five to 10 times more originators, but you can't get them from the forward group. Like there's some.

27:33 No. Maybe there's 5% or 10%, but there's not enough. So, what do you guys do to build the team? And obviously you can poach other companies and nothing wrong with competitive recruiting, but it doesn't help the industry. What does the industry do to find more originators? Well, so as it's as some of our originators age in, I find that's if I was to have one predictable comment of what starts to identify a reverse a potential CRMP, their age. The story that comes into mind is I have children like everybody else and my son came home. He is 20 years old. He's still living at home. He got a job and he's coming home. Hey, I got to demonstrate this product to you. We've all been there, sales positions. So, we sit down and he starts telling me about this box that's going to do this and that and the other thing and it's only $350. I said, "Son, it's a $50 thermostat sitting on the wall. The problem is you've never paid an electrical bill, so you bought into this stuff." Well, reverse mortgage is the same way. If I'm 35 years old, conceptually I don't I don't understand why this thing is necessary, but when I start hitting 60 and I start thinking about retirement and cash flow and assets and where I'm at in life and I now understand the power of a reverse mortgage, that's where your advocates are created. So, that's what I look for. Show me that little bit older originator who understands and values the relationship, just like you said, because that's the other difference.

29:10 With a reverse mortgage client, I get calls from them on a daily, weekly basis about all sorts of things. You're much more of an advisor of their life than a mortgage officer. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. I think that's the you know, at a certain age they're going to they're going to figure that out and there's you know, that would be the likely plan for originators who's in the business is start moving in that direction. And I think also then leveraging all the people we've done business with over the years, past clients, attorneys and I and I know originators will say, "Well, I don't really have a database." Well, yeah, you done like 100 transactions. They all have people attached. You're just too lazy and too transaction focused. But, you can go back and recreate all that. And you have a business that's already sitting in your in your in your life. Now, just to put a bow on this whole thing, and you can use AI to analyze your transactions and create that CRM.

30:12 There you go. And you know, even if you change companies, you can go back and search your past transactions through your own email or different your calendar, your phone, your There's ways to get all that and put all together in one some spot. Yeah, it brings it back. Well, good. Well, look, we've gone a little longer than I scheduled it and for the amount I'm paying you per hour, I can't afford that.

30:33 Just kidding. I appreciate all the knowledge. I appreciate we talked on AI, the value of the CRMP, and then also building a team. Somebody who's interested in talking to you more about any of those items, I think the best way to reach you put it in the banner down below. Is that the best way or you have another way to reach them? Yeah.

30:50 Way to reach me. Yeah. That phone number follows me everywhere. Okay. And then we also have your LinkedIn profile. Is that another place to find you as well for more information for if you're a LinkedIn person, feel free to go there. And otherwise, you can give them a call and he's on there. David, it's always a pleasure to chat with you, learn about the business, and to I think see what the highest standards look like in our industry. Thank you so much for your time today. Oh, thank you, Bill. It's always a pleasure. And I'll do that introduction for you. I would love that. That'd be fantastic. Thanks so much. And for the rest of you, this is Reverse Mortgage Podcast. We get together with an episode every week, usually with top originators, sometimes with vendors or managers, to learn about how to both use the product better for our customers and for ourselves, raise our standards. If I can help in any way, please reach out at BillGrossProbate social media. And as always, make today your best day ever. Thanks so much.