Probate Real Estate and Choosing a Probate Attorney, with Attorney Paul Horn

0:00 Probate expert though today I'm not I'm the second ex most expert in l.a county in probate on this call but we do this call every thursday 4 p.m pacific 7 pm eastern we if you want to come in live go to probateweekly.com and register you're welcome to come in here we'd love to have people participate ask questions we'll ask you to turn on your camera and turn off the mute and then make it real in life to learn in a better environment we're here to all make more money and build more wealth by improving our probate businesses as agents Realtors® investors wholesalers or just to learn about the business vendors as well and I'm really honored I try to bring in guests to help teach along the way give us different perspectives but today we have somebody who's not just a master probate attorney I often say I think the most prolific probe attorney in los angeles county by number of cases as well as not just an educator but the approved teacher instructor for the california association Realtors® certification course car mr paulhorn paul thank you so much for joining us today hey bill it's my honor thank you bill for having me always great to talk to you well thanks so let's just start from the top I know I've known you for quite a while but a lot of people on the call maybe haven't tell us a little bit about where you know your background personally where did you grow up and then how did you end up in law as a as a business or as a practice yeah I grew up in southern california I came to the u.s when I was about oh I think 12 or 13 years old yeah I became a cpa first and then after that I went to law school became an attorney and I've been became an attorney in 2006 and got into probate living trust and this is all I do is probate and trust which and I say I might call regularly that when we refer cases to somebody to an attorney or refer clients to somebody it's really important to

2:02 Have a specialist who specializes in probate and or avoiding probate which would be trusts or estate planning but any it's just enough to keep you busy so how did you end up paul in the specialization of probate and estate planning yeah you know so very quickly I figured out that I didn't want I didn't want to spread my brain a little bit to a criminal law a little bit toward immigration a little bit it's just too much you know so when you focus on one thing it just makes you better and yeah and I think estate planning probate I think is a terrific it's a terrific part of the law practice it applies to everybody you don't need to know about estate planning or trust if you're not going to die so some of you on the webinar not going to die you can tune me out but the rest of you join us the immortal we're all going to die so when you die who gets your house how does your son your daughter sell this house how do you do it yeah so that kind of stuff it's really I dedicate my you know professional career to it in addition to that I should say maybe a unique angle or twist or part of it for you is you've also been involved with educating real estate agents for a long time how did you decide to do that you know as I mentioned you are the approved instructor for car and I know you regularly give talks to various associations of Realtors® including tomorrow and I'll post that here at the end of our talk but how did you come up with the idea of speaking in front of Realtor® associations and I think also offices I think he came to an office I was at a long time ago yeah you know you'll be amazed at how many

4:05 Real estate professionals don't know how to deal with selling a home that where the owner passed away it's quite amazing and if you are in the real estate realm you should have that in your tool bag because I think one of the most lucrative deal that you get into is possibly a homeowner passed away it's in the trust or whatever and maybe it's a good deal you know the house is dilapidated maybe there's a built-in premium for you to buy it you can fix it up flip whatever it is so it's yeah it's invaluable you know and so I was kind of surprised wow you know this knowledge needs to be it needs to get out there and even if you're not interested in flipping houses or doing probate professionally you know going after probate leads what about your own house yeah when you die how does it get passed on to your son or daughter you know do you say I'm not gonna worry about it now when I die then I figured out when I die when you die it's too late you know well and there's a lot of people a lot of people learn before they die it might be too late given the circumstances right there's a lot of people in covid who got incapacitated and that might be too late you know and right now we're talking at a business level but also estate planning has a very real life experience to it because imagine let's say let's say bill as an example let's say you remarry you have a couple of children from your past relationship you remarried to a wonderful new woman you pass away now she takes over

6:08 She takes everything and so there's a lot of intricate heartbreaking situation that happens you know in this realm so if we all sort of understand that hey none of us are getting out of this alive you know and when that day come have you sort of lay out your path who's gonna get what and how are we going to protect everybody you know all the children so it's yeah it's a phenomenal field to get into it's only more home owners are going to die because baby boomers right I don't I don't know about you but old people still die you know and it's right bill it's only going to increase yeah I mean it's unfortunate you know I'm a little older than you and so I have to say it seems like every day somebody's sick and somebody's dying and that I know and it's just more and more frequent and I thank god today it's not me but you're right it's more and more and I think the population as it you know grows it gets older more people pass my wife just asked me gee with the real estate market changing how does it affect probate and I said your money is not they're gonna have to sell their houses people are still gonna die there might be more Realtors® getting into probate real estate there might be more attorneys getting into probate or estate planning as a legal field rather than some other things rather than cryptocurrency maybe but it's going to definitely continue so let's talk about probate a bit you really kind of do both parts you do probate administration which is filing and kind of an ordinary processing of the paper can you also handle there we go just pause one second your wife your wife a very wise woman yes she's right in a declining market you know you and if it's a probate you have to figure out is there enough equity in there to be worth your time right they owe 550 on it right and then and currently the house is

8:11 Worth you know 5.70 well in a tiny market you're gonna be looking at a short sale maybe you know so she's right you know so all of you out there if you are right now where there's only 20 grand equity well that 20 grand equity chances are it's not gonna become a hundred like before like two years ago you know so watch out for those situations where hey if you are if there's only 20 grand equity that 20 grand is more than likely it's gonna become zero because as interest rate is increasing sure looming recession coming you may end up in a short sale situation so be mindful of that have that built into your contingency sorry bill no the only thing you should apologize for is that my wife was to hear this but fortunately she doesn't watch my show and please nobody in the call tell that my wife that paul horn said he was right that she was right and I was wrong please don't get me in trouble I'm just kidding you're absolutely right that this is an area we have to watch now you were in probate administration back in 2008 9-10 when there were short sales and so you know that's an interesting place to navigate because the equity limitation limits perhaps or puts pressure on the attorney's fees puts pressure on the commissions puts pressure on the deal did you see short sales being done in probate court where there was a nominal amount of money for the families or did you find those too hard to do and you pass I know some were done I also know that judges hated them because it was a lot of work for very little money for the state yeah so I have done a number of probate short sale okay so in a probate short sale you must get full authority yeah okay so if you if you have a deal on the table it's going to be a short sale or you have a deal where there's not too

10:14 Much equity in it you must demand that it be full authority if you don't have full authority your short sale is not going to go through okay yeah and so having said that when you are doing a probate short sale you have to make sure that hey mom died there are three children make sure that all three of them understand that this is a short sale and in a short sale the word short really means short you know so the money is going to be short there's nothing going to you it's going to be short maybe the investor who's buying this can say you know what I'm going to be a good guy I'm going to step up I'm going to cover the court filing fees and you know what because I'm a seasoned investor maybe I'm going to do this and this I think I can cover myself I may give you five grand each for example where it makes and pay the attorney's fee so that this way the judge can go yeah well that's some value to this you know it would have been lost in foreclosure except for this season investor who's picking it up who knows how maybe this investor has done investing for so long maybe this may be an investor instead of spending 150 grand or fixing it up maybe he's able to do it for 90 because he just thought much more better than right yeah you know in every single field there's always 80 the 80 20 rule right you're gonna have 20 of the investor out there who you know who makes the money because they're good at it you know so yeah if you can structure in such a way where the judge goes yeah it's gonna go awesome foreclosure yeah the investor is doing this an investor is squeezing you know actually some juice out of this rock you know

12:16 And so okay you know and so it makes it kind of on up and up right yeah sorry tara asks what's the advantage of a short sale versus foreclosure I think paul answered that which is in short sale at least the estate will end up with some money five thousand dollars ten thousand dollars there has to be enough in there for them you know to be worth their time and also the judge has to see that you're gonna have a tough time getting it through I think without that so yeah who has that question tara what's her name yeah so what's so she's asking what is the advantage and the short sideways for closure right correct okay tara you know the neighborhood so well tara you could do great thing with that house you know tara you know you happen to because in a foreclosure it's going to be up for auction you know skip auction the highest bidder gets a it's so for probate short sale terror you love that house you might pay a little more for it give the children something you're going to keep that house long term because it's in a great area tara you know so there's different factors involved you know and maybe this particular house means more to you as an investigator than 99 other investors out there and just a reminder for everybody to call today this is meant to be participative so if you have a question feel free to put the chat box best to put a cue before it so I'll catch it as a question or raise your hand in the zoom app and love to ask a question and then if you're watching on live stream put it in the chat if you're on youtube or facebook will pick up your questions as well whether it be live or afterwards so glad to have you participate the more you participate the more you're going to learn you know paul you said something that's so true that you know the 80 20 rule though I would say it's more of a 95 5 rule with real estate agents half the Realtors® in the mls haven't closed anything in a year let alone a probate

14:20 And so you're really talking about five percent who've even done one I think that's so much with attorneys when I run the data in la county 95 of the cases are attorneys who've done one or more in the last 12 months and maybe 5 to 10 percent have done at least one or more in the last 12 months is that your experience and no I don't want you to I know you don't want to disparage your colleagues but the truth is they're attorneys who like you this is what they do and there's other attorneys who do an occasional probate and may not know what they're doing listen I don't need to disparage any attorney all I need to ask you is are every Realtor® on every single relative with the same capability you're going to say no right there are some relationships just flat out better than the Realtor® and that one Realtor® is part of the 80 20 rule where that 20 percent makes 80 of the money of course okay there's a lot of alternative that does and bill is absolutely correct and bill guy he really knows probate okay he really tracks all the data and yeah you know for an attorney that does one probate a year you know you can be sure that attorney is not going to be up to par to move your transaction as opposed to someone you know who do a lot of them you know like you're very modest like you paul and I'll tell you having been in court you know two things I noticed about you one is you were always in mul back pre-coveted when you had to go to court you'd be in several departments the same day and then the judges accommodate attorneys by letting you go first or last to try to you know juggle everybody and they all knew who you were so I think you know it's obvious after a while that I got dizzy watching your quarters off as you were there and you know you know you do you do have home court advantages because the judge know that hey whatever minor issue that appears paul is going to fix this because if

16:24 If we don't grant Paul Horn's position now he's going to come back and fix it so why waste everybody's time you know so you do have some home court advantages when a judge has seen your name so many times they trust you they know they can trust you and say there's a question was this cleared was it not clear and then you'll say well we'll make sure they get told and the judge will often say find out I'll take you at your word so it's really important so just an example a case I'm handling right now where another attorney filed this case mom died mom has three children and this attorney who filed this case only lists one children as the heir the other mom has three children only one living the other two who die has children so you're supposed to list the other two who pass away when they password and all their children and this lawyer only listed the son that's alive inexperienced like you were saying go they don't know what they're doing right the other thing I would say you I know there's law I mean there's certain laws like on a limited authority case the sale can't be less than 90 percent of the public referees report but I've also seen judges agree to less when they're compelling circumstances I mean they have some discretion to bend the law a little bit some judges do some judges don't and that's experience that you bring as you kind of know those areas that you can work for your client that are legal and ethical but outside of the book part of it right and that's where people are paying for is that expertise when there's a problem okay a couple hands up douglas welcome to our call to see your hand up let me get you unmuted and let's get you on the call how are you doing douglas lee hello hi candy from ladies [Laughter] well two things first I want to let everybody know Bill Gross and I used

18:26 To work together awesome guy he truly means what he says by helping people and not only that but I've worked with paul horn you I got started because of paul horn I bought his kit it paid a thousand times full his training is awesome I use his stuff for all the leads his probate money I got nothing but good things to say he also does litigation a lot of probate attorneys don't do both in litigation but he does question for you paul so when I'm working on a lot of these multiple cases sometimes there's always like a new probate attorney right it's kind of like a like real estate agent how do is there a way that I can check to see how much probate experience because I imagine that a lot of the probate attorneys that claim to do probate they're like real estate agents they claim to do probate but they haven't really done that many probate transactions so because a lot of times I find because of your training like I know the answer is better than the probate attorney yeah I don't know if there's some way that I can check like hey here's how many probate cases they've worked on like for us you could just check mls see what those listings how many of them were probate and then you could just count for the real estate agents so as long as modest let me return yeah I didn't know if that was it let me answer for paul I subscribe to probate money which is a product that paul has created here in los angeles county and I'll go in and search under the attorney the last name and see how many cases they've done so I use probably money I use that product this is an efficient way to look that up all the time paul how do you're an attorney you must have a similar service that you use as an attorney yeah so first of all guys douglas is the real deal he works hard he's when he says he's going to do something he's going to do it so that goes awesome so the first thing you ought to do guy when you check out an attorney go to their website when you go to their website and when you go to their website and if they list criminal law personal injury cases

20:30 Divorces forget it forget it right they don't know probate when you go to the website it just should say only estate planning estate plan is comprised of living trust and probate that's it you know yeah so on the screen you see my website you're not gonna you know so this is a good example where all you see is estate planning probate living trust that's it nothing else when you go to that lawyer's website douglas and you see that he practiced something else forget it right forget it he right off the bat probably not you know that's that's one thing go back to my website real fast bill the second thing is I have another question but I'll wait I'll wait yeah scroll around to the bottom bill where it says I'm sorry back up just a tiny bit okay stop do you see that bear right there that bear that bear right there is the state bar of california certifying lawyer who specialized in probate law I didn't know that I knew that my logo I know there's that is the bragging right that is the bragging right only lawyer who's been certified for the state bar has the right to use that logo so that logo is another added layer that hey this guy has took an extra exam and has been vouched by his peers that he really specialized in this type of law so this is the two things check out the

22:32 Website second of all does he have that little bear that little logo that little logo is breaking right given out by the state bar of california that has certified that lawyer specialized in probate law one question oh go ahead I didn't say also I look at probate money and look up how much business they've done so what would you do then bill is that you go into probate money you type in that attorney's that attorney's name and it'll show how many times oh that's smart okay that's a good one too so my question follow-up question to what you just said paul is so like let's suppose that I'm chatting there's a there's an attorney there they're not really that good I can tell just by their knowledge and what they're telling the client but the thing is that if I wanted to introduce them to you I guess my question is that I heard rules that like for attorneys it's a little tougher because once they've signed an agreement then they're pretty much locked in so there's no way they could kind of like an attorney couldn't then consult to help them out or whatever but I mean what's an agent like me that I might if I'm thinking bluntly dude this probate attorney sucks I want to connect them with my attorney paul horn who I know will get the job done how do I do that in a way that's professional without stepping on toes and without doing something to break any legal because I know lawyers have their own settlements hey bill give me access to screen share please even after this here I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna answer that good question all right there you go so do you all see my excel spreadsheet up here yeah that was the yes the easiest way one way you can do it is this any

24:35 Any cases that are unlimited authority and for those who are new in probate there's only two types of authority limited authority and full authority okay right limited authority and full authority the payments the statutory fee are the same so let's say let's say if the house is going to be sold for 500 grand let's say it's going to sell for 500 grand the attorney's fee are set fee so for example it's gonna be four percent it's going to be four percent multiply that by the first hundred thousand is four grand okay and it's going to be three percent multiply that by the next hundred grand and because it's because the house being slow for five hundred thousand it's gonna be two percent of the remaining 300 grand to bring us up to 500 000 okay so the fee so the fee the attorney's fee for this 500 000 house is going to be 13 000 whether it's full authority or limited authority but because it's limited authority it has to go for court confirmation so court confirmation has to be it has to be in the newspaper and the newspaper might cost 800 bucks depending on which city you're in when you go and sell this house the lawyer has to do court confirmation which is another court filing fee of 465.

26:13 That lawyer normally is going to charge on top of this on top of the 13 grand probably another 4 500 okay so now so now this particular probate limited authority is going to cost eighteen thousand okay now I'm getting somewhere with this so for you douglas the easiest way if you find a limited authority you can switch it to full authority let's say for example if they were if they were to come to me I can switch from limited to full limited to full authority okay the fee are going to stay the same the fee is still going to be the 13. The fee is still going to be these charges okay and the fee are the same the fee are going to be the same the fee are going to be the same this 18 000 gets split between me and that lawyer now douglas why is this beneficial for the client to switch it from limited to full well you know the answers already no yeah I know yeah because with limited authority this the it takes longer to sell the house than declining market good luck with that second of all there isn't that many seller I mean that many buyers when there's not a lot of buy it declines the price so switch switching attorney go to law that gives you full authority the total cost is the same he's gonna give away some of that 18 grand to that first lawyer but the seller is gonna maybe net another 40 50 grand more bill because it's full authority okay so that's a good when you find limited authority case this is a good segment to watch right here the cost is the same

28:18 The new lawyer will split that 18 grand with the new lawyer so the cost can be the same except your seller is going to net more because it's full authority when it's full authority there are more buyer one more buy because there's less obstacle right less hoops to jump through to get this house right bill the other thing to add to this no I mean no I think you hear the head it's not necessarily the fees are that dramatic but it's just months and months of delays for example I have one right now where we got delayed last month because the probate referees report wasn't done right for the last hearing and here it is a month later and it's still not done right the hearing is next week and the probate referee is saying oh it's no big deal but my attorney needs to supplement it the probe attorney has to review so it'll end up delaying two months for a probate referee which is just a drive by appraisal in the rest of the real estate world that's nothing but in real estate in probate they added at least two months to the sale process because it's limited 30. Yeah and then dangerous at this time yeah in a declining market you're right it's a dangerous market you're in you know when who the heck no right and I don't know september the fed's gonna increase another 50 basis point I don't know you know they're talking about it so douglas that's if you see limited authority I think that's a solid it's solid because it's the truth right they don't have to go just go to another lord get full authority because it might benefit that seller at the end yeah so if they if the client if the petitioner or the executor has signed a retainer with an existing lawyer and it's a limited authority I can actually introduce them if I

30:21 You know to another attorney like you and then there may be a way for you to get in there or if or if that attorney only does the probate but they don't do litigation then there is a way that I could just introduce them to you right yeah you know so seller ukraine has limited authority I don't know how you got to be limited authority but listen limited authority the buyers got 10 down it's got published in the newspaper you gotta wait for the provo referee to value this house the buyer putting ten percent down clear all contingency just to go to court and someone else might steal this house away from that accepted offer put yourself in a buyer's position mr pr mr seller mr personal representative would you like it you're not gonna like it if you're not gonna like it other buyer in the market is not going to like it either therefore if we can switch you to full authority where your legal fee are going to be the same you're going to be because why because the new lawyer can split his fee his statutory fee with the prior attorney well I have often seen attorneys who are who don't do probate as a specialty they're concerned so they feel it's safer to have limited authority the court will confirm the sale so they can't be sued they can't be judged but they're not doing their job they're hurting their client costing a lot of money in waste of time that's the reason why you know right away when they say well my attorney suggested it said it'd be safer but it's not safer you're not doing your job so bill so bill made a good point it's safer for who save for their attorney it covers his right behind yeah okay he gets paid more there's more delay but I don't care it's not affecting me don't hold up paul horn's cases man do

32:24 Not stand in the way of Paul Horn's probably kisses get over douglas thank you so much man thanks for coming east yeah thanks yes okay john I see john's hand up patiently waiting john what's going on how can we help you nice to meet you all nice to meet you paul hey so to get started with probate because this is new to me I need to contact the state attorneys that have full authority is that correct yeah so to get started with probate I would say get educated on the probate process you know yeah so for example I'm holding a class tomorrow from 9 to 10 30. Go to learnprobate.com it's an hour and a half the price is terrific the entry fee is terrific it's free is that my favorite is there anything cheaper than free john no it's free is my favorite word it's free start off with learning the process first you know because you know you can make the contact but once you make the contact if you don't know what you're doing you know different than full authorism or authority you don't know how the program process start you don't know how long it takes you don't know when you take the listing you know you know I would learn first learn probate first and then you can talk on the marketing next then you can call bill and tell you bill you know I understand the process now you know bill help me out you know what's the next move so I would do that first learn the stuff first yeah john where do you sell real estate los angeles county west yeah west side of la we do we have a

34:28 Escrow closing today we have another we do a lot of referrals expireds canceled fsbos all that in the latter I'm just always you know with exp with real estate there's always something new to learn and I know that this is you know probate it's not something that I know so I'm just trying to you know expand my horizons here see okay so you talked about probate but the question should be when a homeowner passed away the standard daughter comes to see you what's the first thing you're going to do john see if they have see if they have a trust or not yeah exactly and don't know what you know how to do and the only way you can tell if you can pull the grandee so you pull the granny the house is in the trust there's no probate what's the next step you're going to do john you pull the 50 the house is in the trust what's the next step you're going to do mom died with four children what's the next step you're going to do to get the listing I'm telling the state attorney correct no you just asked for a copy of the trust to see who is the successor trustee and you let that successor trustee sign your listing agreement voila there's your commission we talk about probate but there's a whole side of this trust that you need to learn as well when a homeowner died unless you can go to heaven to have him sign a grindee you better know what to do right yeah you better know the process you know just yeah so don't just get stuck on probably because there's a ton of people that die with a trust what do you do when they die with a trust right so it's a more holistic hey how do you help homeowner who passed away the heirs the children think of the estate plan also like a safe and sometimes they for oh yeah there is a safe in the closet oh yeah we have a estate plan well great let's look inside the safe and see what's there

36:29 Let's look inside the trust and see what's there it's written in english and usually you can help them figure out who they may or may not know who the successor trustee is and you can help yeah john let's say you know one of your client mom and dad passed away they come to see you know you pull the grant deed imagine in that conversation when you meet with a son or daughter how knowledgeable would you be to say hey bring the trust go look for the trust you flip through the trust you find oh sister mary is just me wouldn't you be would you look so professional you say hey this is the law all left to trust the house is the trust the trust shows that mary the daughter is a successor trustee she has the power to sign the disagreement sell the house and divide everything by four wow john you are an expert you are half this listing right yeah the experts are somebody who knows one more step than they do so go to paul's training tomorrow is one way for it's a free resource if you're the xp I run the probate group in exp we have 1200 members I post a lot of good free content there come to this call every week this is free as well and I have a facebook group for anybody who's not with the xp probate experts in facebook and come there as well for free and I post a lot of material there as well okay john nice to meet you thank you too man okay matt love you've had your hand up let's get you can we get your camera on maybe matt if not you got a question for us you know we gotta get you a muted though there you go so my question is I've heard that a lot of folks are a little just turned off from non-agent folks getting involved in probate just looking at youtube videos and that there's like a stigma because I'm not a real estate agent I'm pursuing the wholesale route and pursuing that route what do you think is the best way to go about it do you let them know out the gate that you're not an agent so your question is how do you approach

38:33 A owner of a house or the air of a house where there's a probate and you're doing that as a wholesaler so I actually wrote I actually posted today I'll put the chat box a video on the subject can you wholesale properties in probate so I'll put that in the chat box paul what happened can you share with us your experience with wholesalers what's that like and I know there's some good and bad like was everything else what's your experience with people looking to wholesale properties in probate so look at the end of the day they stand on dollars they just want to get the most for their property you know and for example given equal value let's say the Realtor® is going to sell it for 500 000 and if you if you're buying it because if you sell 500 000 you have to pay six percent commission you know maybe you offer something where you buy straight up without no commission that's added value you know yeah so I mean at the end of the day you know if you're doing good towards a son or daughter you're sincere you get the best value you know that's a good deal is a good deal it's not going to change gotcha okay that's right I was looking because they say the advantage is that the whole seller isn't looking for a listing fee they incorporate their fees in the actual sale with the buyer I'm still learning this stuff right but I'm very much committed to learning it at this point like I've shared earlier I met bill in person and he said something that clicked a little bit later but it clicked so anyway so I'm ready to like just pursue this and whatever I do with my learning curve so that's my little background on that great man well thanks for glad to have you here glad to have you on board watch that video on my youtube channel on wholesaling probate because there's a couple different you need to know where you are in the process just like paul laid out you need to find who the success or trustee is if there's a trust same thing

40:34 If you find the property then you discover there's a trust you can go to the homeowner and they may not know oh by the way it chosen to trust and then they'll find out who the successor trustee is and then you can talk about wholesaling it from there so that's some great advice as well okay awesome thank you hi tessa thank you so much okay so I think we're up to date with all the people who raised hands in the call which I try to give priority to you on the call in youtube a question we got from vince does paul have any problem with a fiduciary who's also an agent purchasing a client's real estate can this be seen as a breach of the agent's responsibility so fiduciary just for those who don't know that you know when you when somebody passes there's various parties you have a petitioner who could be an heir or not and they're finally the administrator or the executor sometimes that person doesn't want to handle the probate themselves so they have somebody act on their behalf which is a fiduciary you could be an attorney or can be a professional fiduciary not an attorney so paul is your so the question is how do you feel about fiduciaries and I guess also how do you feel about petitioners buying the property there's multiple heirs do you see that as a breach of the responsibility okay so if the if the personal representative is buying the house the personal representative have to get an okay from the court because it is a conflict of interest I'm so sorry what is the gentleman's name that asked the question vince imagine this vince your uncle pass away your uncle has no children no wife you're and you and let's say you and three other brothers are the heirs just by being nieces and nephews vince right it's you are the personal representative and you're gonna buy the house that's fine then vince your name should

42:37 Be jesus because you're so honest the whole world doesn't know that vince right the whole world is not aka jesus is buying the house the house only worth 600 but jesus is paying 610. But we don't know your jesus right we don't know you know so there's a conflict of interest there and so the court you know the judge wants to know hey file petition give notice to all your brothers and sister you're buying the house and so that no one object no so that the so they can cleanse you of any appearances of conflict of interest very good let me go back a little bit here again if you're in the call live one ask question raise your hand or we'll do our best to catch up with you in the chat box so john we talked to you what does it take to get started in matt says in north carolina you have a thing called a petition to partition if they dispute it they can ask the judge to force the sale so I'm an attorney I'm not giving legal advice but in my experience we also have partition actions and that if a party owns half or more they can force the sale and there's a process to go through but eventually they're probably going to win paul do you get involved with partition actions when there's let's say two errors one wants to sell one dozen or do you refer out to another attorney to do the partition portion or yeah I don't yeah I don't get involved in partition and yeah so let's say there's two owners and one owner wants to sell you go to court and the judge will force the other owner to set to sell it's called a partition okay and basically a real estate attorney would handle them and the reason why the judge will grant it is because you know the law that does not encourage landlock right so if you own 50 and you want to sell the judge is going to allow that project to be sold you know versus

44:40 Being a landlocked so yeah so you know I don't know what georgia law is but that's the concept behind a partition I own 50 you own 50 I don't want to sell you want to sell the court will take over the court will allow it to be sold I don't know georgia law but that's the idea of my partition and again I think paul's being modest but I can tell you that he is who he is because he doesn't handle partitions he handles probate and he refers that out and I recently I actually have a case that was a probate resulting in two parties 50 partition action that probably attorney referred to an attorney to handle the partition action likewise like paul a significant probate litigator but they don't do partitions it's a different court department it doesn't really benefit their probate practice and say that's the kind of attorney ultimately you'd like to work with if you can ryan has a proper question going back to the issue of foreclosure versus short sale if there's a foreclosure and a shortage of money due which isn't so common in california but theoretically possible can the bank attach other properties if there's multiple property in the estate or those bank accounts in the estate and there's a deficiency can a bank if there's efficiency judgment which is not true on most mortgages but theoretically could be true can they attach the estate for the differences that's a pretty that's a pretty deep question okay and let's see law school question I think yeah let's deal with that so first of all let's say you lost a house in foreclosure and you're still alive you're still alive right you lost on foreclosure still alive and so it's going to depend on you know recourse non-recourse right if it's if it's a rental property it's not your primary I think california law is there's going to be recourse to it if it's a rental property and they can seek judgment from you

46:44 This is when you're alive right we have to separate the two world I'm explaining the law to you if you're alive if it's a rental property there may be deficiency allow in a rental property versus primary if you're alive now you're dead if you're dead and let's say it is a rental property unless it is foreclosed upon let's say there's efficiency deficiency how is that lender going to go to heaven because you're dead how is he going to go to heaven to find you to give you a judgment london's gonna have to sue you it's gonna it's gonna have to open up a probate because you're dead the only way they can sue you is open up the probate okay and so chances are you know if it was a rental property foreclosure you're dead chances are that it's probably gonna end there you know now if you do have other property the air is going to open up appropriate to get the rest of the property you know and so maybe that is a situation where a short sale is could be given some consideration just to avoid any you know just to close and shut the door on any deficiency going after the other property very good so next question this is a deep question I know you could probably speak for hours on this one and I always tell people I think you are the best teacher of the law and the probate process I don't think your specialty is how to get business as from as a Realtor® from attorneys but you obviously have experience on that the question is what's the best way to develop a

48:46 Relationship with a probate attorney if you're a real estate agent I've sent them letters but no response so I'm curious paul how many unsolicited mailings do you get a day or a week in your office from real estate agents looking to talk to you about listing on property that you're involved with yeah I do get a fair share you know and I think you know I think it's no different than any other business you know you got to put yourself out there bring value to the table you know yeah I mean I you know like for example I got to be where I am because I did a ton of free webinar even now I'm doing freedom like tomorrow you know I'm doing from 9 to 10 30 and it's exhausting because I give it all you know so you know is this no easy there is no bible written on hey how do you get through the front entrance though our probate attorney you know number one is learn the probate process learn it well what do you do when the homeowner die with a trust when there's no trust I would start with that first and then and then after that you know talk to bill after that put on your marketing think cap you know after that pretend you're the probate attorney you know why would he or she why would you talk to a Realtor® you know reverse the hat around yeah I think that's a good point I think you have to think about what value do you bring when's referrals obviously if you're referring clients to an attorney they're going to do business with you if you're and the same attorney does estate planning and I teach every Realtor® the number one thing you should start with is make sure all your clients have an estate plan if they own a property they all should have an estate plan if they have kids I think and refer them to services that you know like and trust and then those

50:49 People will hopefully refer business back to you because now they know like and trust you creating business for them so paul here he's talking about probates and tomorrow's talk about probates but he also does estate planning and so if I was you know looking for paul's business I would make sure that I had you know estate planning clients that would call him and do business with them and then I'd remind him hey by the way paul I sent you a couple clients just let you know and paul will do business with me that's really business has to be you know for value for everybody and so but it starts as you said and this is the step people agents want to skip it starts with knowing the business no attorney wants to refer business to real time yeah and maybe this is a good segment into there's a service out there that all they do is collect data of deceased homeowners that owns real estate there's a service out there I think it's called foreclosure something for closing daily what they do is they specialize in getting the record of people who die that owns real estate all of you should start there okay contact that company they're going to give you a list of people who die that owns real estate you know so perhaps you get the names and you do your research to see which property they own and then you own property the next step you do you do an air search hunt you do an air search it's very easy you do an air search to find out john smith passed away john smith oh one property owns one property two property the air surge is going to show you all of john smith

52:51 Sons and daughters and so forth okay contact those people because when you contact John's heir whether if it's in a if it's in the trust right there right you don't need probate you can buy the house start the listing right away if it's in a probate then that's a very organic lead you mean that's that's what you even one step before even the probate attorney gets it okay so that's a good way to do it too you know for example if you sign up for foreclosure daily dot com and you do los angeles oc once you sign up let me know perhaps I can give you some coaching on it perhaps when you do have someone you know yeah when you find a good lead you know we can talk about it if it's if it's in the trust I'll walk you through get the listing I don't make your money I don't care but if it isn't a probate I'll do the legal work for you in the probate you get the listing okay so I think start with that foreclosure daily.com tell them which county you want you're gonna get I think the data comes out like every week every two weeks okay a deceased homeowner that owns real estate I put a link in the chat box on my website I have a list of data sources including probate money but one of them's foreclosures daily it's on there and I have a coupon code if you go to them and use a coupon code bg300 you'll get a discount 20 plus you'll get a book done by a good friend of mine kevin sales and so there you go yeah kevin sale if you listen to this hello he's a great guy honest guy great title wrap so this foreclosure daily you know this it's called pre-probing you know you might have less competition because once you get into the probate database it's a lot of competition you know

54:54 But if you are going the pre-probate route you know it's diamond in a rough you're there before it hits I guess it's like finding you know an off-listing house I guess in your legal jargon yeah it's an off-the-market listing I guess you know yeah and again they're gonna look for your help not just on the house but on the attorney's fees and the attorney's guidance and the resolution of any conflicts with the parties so definitely worthwhile yeah and that list is invaluable to investor because if the house is in a trust it doesn't go into probate because it does not go into probate how much you buy the house for is none of the court's business it's just purely you and the successor trustee okay yeah beautiful that's what we want well look I know you have a big day tomorrow too and we're coming at the end of the time here so paul just on behalf of everybody on the call today thank you so much for your time I've always enjoyed learning from you your classes you have a class tomorrow as I mentioned but I just want to thank you for being you know so personally involved with us and sharing those who are interested you can go to learnprobate.com ivar is one of the I mean the inland pirates the inland valley association Realtors® but there you can register for paul's class tomorrow friday july 29th at 9 a.m for free is a great a great resource if you want paul horn's law firm you go to paulhornlawfirm.com and so if you have clients who are looking for estate planning to avoid probate or private services is a great source there and then lastly we only get a chance to talk about much but paul has a great class he is the official teacher of the official program for certification by the california association of Realtors® learnprobate.comr and there you'll get a

56:58 Certification that will I don't know necessarily that the ticket will get you in the door with attorneys but sometimes they'll ask you are you certified and if you learn the material and paul covers that material at least you're at that level so paul thank you so much for your time I really appreciate your help as always hey bill great to have you thank you for having me on and all of you out there thank you so much for being with us god bless take care guys thank you thank both of you and for the rest of you thank you and for the rest of you this is probably weekly.com we do it every thursday 4 p.m pacific 7 pm eastern it's live stream on youtube and facebook it's also their record as well if you're with the xp check out the probate group in exp workplace if you're not with exp check out the probate experts in facebook group it's free and we get together posts we've had petitioners looking for leads there so go ahead and take a look at that as well if I can help at all if you're watching this on youtube please like it if you like this and subscribe before I get it regularly and if you have suggestions put in the chat box I check all the comments try to learn to do better from it so thank you so much everybody have a great week as always and we'll talk to you soon bye guys