Finding Your Probate Niche and Brand, with Melanie Hands, The Probate Nurse

0:00 Is looking to build their businesses, finding their niche and their branding. And so many people it just doesn't resonate. For me personally, it did. When I did my research on probate and decided how I wanted to tackle it, where my strengths were, what I was good at, what I enjoyed, where the market also had a need, it fell into place. And I was talking a few months ago and had the chance to learn more about Melanie Hands, who is the probate nurse. And so both for learning about being successful in probate business and I think also how to find a way to hang a brand in or a niche on you that's going to fit and feel good. I guess kind of like a nice piece of clothing. She agreed to come on to do so. Melanie, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here. So real quick, where are you from? Where do you do business today? So I'm in Tampa on the north end. So Tampa, St. Pete. Very good. I was in Tampa in 1985. We drove overnight, got there just in time for a hurricane to hit, and we drove out before it we could get got locked in and went back I was living in Boca Raton at the time. So that's my only experience in Tampa was drove in, checked in the hotel, and then drove home racing away from a hurricane. I think I was here at that time, too. Wow.

1:16 I was really young. Yeah, I think I was here at in '85. And then I left. So a lot of people joke about Florida being nothing but seniors, and of course it's not. I mean, there's plenty of people retired, there's plenty of people who don't. So how did you end up addressing probate as a business? What was it that turned you into that particular niche? So you know, being a nurse, you know, our role is always caring for people. And as I entered real estate, I started as an investor first, and I just really came across these types of leads. They were brought to me by one of my mentors, and he said, "You know, Melanie, I think you'd be really good at probate leads." Now this was back like in probably '13 or '14. And I was really new at the time and really hadn't done any deals. So that's kind of how I got into it and down here, you know, from our previous conversations, you know that my family had three recent losses and we had gone through three hospice situations, my mom, my dad and my brother and as I was journeying through that I saw a lot of things that were missing, a lot of pieces of the puzzle that just weren't there and so I as I was taking care of my father, I just started taking notes and I reaching out to people and started building a network and so that's really how it happened and I just kind of like fell into it to be honest with you. Well, and I think you know, like a lot of people that they say is scratching your own itch and I think that sounds like what you did. I know for me and myself the same thing. I my I lost both my parents and my wife through our marriage we lost both of her parents and you go through that from a different angles and you start to realize how difficult it is, how hard it is, how debilitating it can be and so now where did the nurse part come into the process? I'm sorry, what may I wasn't paying attention to that. I know the real estate part but is it that you're probably a nurse or were you a nurse or how did how did that work into the business?

3:07 Yeah, so I'm from Detroit originally and I've been a nurse since 89. Whoa. Do you know Al Abdallah? I think he sells all the houses in Detroit, Michigan. Who is that? Al Abdallah is on the on the call and he is I think the Realtor® in Michigan. All right, good boy, I think. Okay. Anyhow, go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah, so question again. So yeah, so from Detroit and I was a nurse for many years. I started in 89 and I started up in the Detroit Medical Center and I did open heart surgery. I was in the operating room and did a lot of things that I really loved and then I went to got out of that to do pharmaceutical sales and that's what I really wanted to do. So nursing has been wonderful. It's been a wonderful tool. You know, we can do many things and one thing that I will say is that you'll always have a job with that and you know, doing the pharmaceutical sales kind of set me up for what I'm doing now. So, it's kind of a nice combination of all three. So, one of the interesting things at the time that I met you, my wife was battling cancer a year and a half ago. She started the battle and for now we're winning we won. She's cancer free as of about 3 weeks ago. Thank God. Thank you. Thank God. And the process you really come to realize how important the nurses are. I've been to most of my life the nurse was just some woman in the room and it actually when I grew up it was a woman now it's women and men. It's certainly much more mixed and you realize that the when you're in the hospital regularly that the primary interaction is the nurse.

4:41 There's like a hierarchy of nurses, right? There's the nurses in the room and then there's the head charge nurse and then there's a specialist nurse and there's a this kind of a nurse. So, talk about the relationship patients have with nurses. It's not just like a service position. It really is a an authority and a educational position. Absolutely. I was just going to say it's absolutely up on the educational end of things. You know, even though you're running in and out of the room, you're looking at your client, you know, and make sure they get their medication and they're getting their lab work and all that, you know, you're the one that's relaying all the diagnostics and preparing them for whatever test they have going on as well as teaching them about discharge instructions, what they need to do when they go home as well as the pharmaceutical end of it, too. So, it's tons of tons of work. But the education is everything for our clients, especially on the cardiac floor that I started on in Detroit. No, cardiac floor, okay. Yeah, it was awesome. That's not just the bunions and scrapes and band-aids, I guess. No, I was at the Detroit Medical Center and we were affiliated with Wayne State University. So, we had we had doctors in from all over the world and just incredible amounts of, you know, specialties. So, it quite the education there. As I think that has changed in my lifetime is how specialized everything's become, doctors and nurses.

6:03 Really special like the nurses in the cancer ward are not separate from the average and then the OB not the pediatrician nurse pediatric nurses. Like I think another level up it just seems like so there's having a hierarchy or various hierarchies within that business and supervisory nurses or is regular. So, there's a lot of it's a command position and I think that's then lends itself the name. If you have experiences with nurses, trust and care and all that. So, how did you think to translate that into probate? Well, you know, having been through it myself, you know, it's that compassion and empathy and integrity, all those things that come with nursing. I was able to transfer over to that and there's just a relatability, you know, with clients or potential clients who you're speaking to them on the phone that, you know, they hear that you're a nurse and they just have a vision it could be good or bad of you, but the people that are really interested in what you're doing think compassion and integrity and knowledge. So. I think so. So, let's go ahead and just do some housekeeping real quick. This is Probate Weekly. We do this every Thursday 4:00 p.m. Pacific Time 7:00 p.m. Eastern. We live stream it onto YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn. If you want to come in live on the Zoom, register at probateweekly.com.

7:20 Otherwise, you can find us on social medias at Bill Gross Probate on the various social medias. Love to have you participate. And if you want to sign up, it's just a simple process online. Probateweekly.com is the website you go to. And then if you want to whether you sign up or not for free, we have a Facebook group. Probate Weekly is the name of it. We have 2,900 almost 3,000. Hopefully we get to 3,000 members. But what we do here is a couple of things. Number one, post your content and you'll get more views and likes and follows and feedback. I built my social media by posting content on other people's sites as well as my own company sites. Use this as long as it's probate related, which includes estate planning in this case. Love to have you post your content there. Look for referrals and for attorneys, look for referrals for real estate agents around the country. Post good vendors related specifically to probate. And then, you have different and we have customers that come in and I post my content as well. So, that's Probate Weekly. Love to have you come. And then again today our guest is the probatenurse.com. There's her contact info and we'll post that in the description notes down below. Love to have you participate. If you're on the Zoom call, the whole point of this is to be participative. Now, we could just do it on the YouTube and stream it recorded and send it out to everybody. I do that in other podcasts cuz it wasn't participative. This one, I envision this being a mastermind group where we get together, where we have a chance to learn, we have a chance to educate ourselves, we have a chance to share.

8:51 And if just those of us on this call work together effectively, we would dominate the market. Right? And that's what real estate really is about is about collaboration and working together. Melanie don't have any real business relationship. I'm not selling this call, she's not selling a book. We're just here both like trying to think trying to improve our business, learn from each other, push each other. I invite you to join us in the process. So, Melanie, tell me about what was it you found the idea of probate, but how did you connect that to your real estate practice and then what did you do to get started? To connect the probate to your real estate. Yeah, so yeah, I'm a member of the Tampa REIA, the real estate investment group here and I started going to I joined them a couple years back and started going to their meetings every month and then I would do their educational forums. And probate popped up and this is back probably about five years ago. And I thought, this is really kind of cool, and you know, I had done a little bit in Detroit, and I it just again just kind of fell into my lap. And so, I went ahead and signed up for their weekend courses, and got educated on that, and then kind of fast forward to today, more current time, I found Chad's program, Probate Mastery online, and it was a fluke again, and I signed up for that, and I took it, and I just kind of felt immediately like, you know, this is for me. You know, this kind of encompasses everything that I've been setting out to do, you know, and I love conventional real estate, don't get me wrong, but this really for me was just something that was really missing in my business, you know? So, that's kind of how it started. I did Probate Mastery, and did the program, and then I started to getting leads and sending out letters, and did a couple of deals.

10:30 And that's kind of how it started. So, a little history, Chad Corbett was the founder of Probate Mastery. I put a link in the chat box to the programs and such that she's referring to. He actually before that was the coach at alltheleads.com. And that's where I met him and took his class. And similarly, I was really moved by the compassion and by the professionalism, by the high standards I think that he set. And I took Probate Mastery 4 and 1/2 years ago, and relaunched my career from zero to the last four years to having a really great business. And I think that and then he moved and founded Probate Mastery as a company, and just recently retired from it, and turned over to Bruce Hill, who was a coach at alltheleads. The whole thing's kind of convoluted. I'm the coach over there for their weekly coaching program as well. I don't get paid for that. I'm just leading the mastermind, and I enjoy doing that quite a bit. But we both kind of So, Mel and I both come from the same That's a long way of saying, we both come from the same background. And we both come from appreciating, I think, it's important to be professional and it's important to come from a point of caring and being helping. So, what do you see you doing differently as a Realtor® than you might have otherwise but for what you learned on Chad's program? Specifically, like how do you How do you work as a real estate agent differently?

11:50 I get you come from caring and compassion, but what's that look like differently than the average Realtor® might be competing with you? Yeah, just really, you know, again, you know, aside from the empathy and compassion, just really, you know, bringing a different take to them listing their home or selling their home. You know, we can bring multiple options to them. So, we can we can work with them to sell their house as is. We can bring contractors in because I do work with investors and I'm one myself. So, we have a little bit of a leg up with them in terms of what we can bring. In my history of rehabbing homes and being a landlord, I'm able to kind of tailor what their needs are. And the first thing that I really look at with my clients, and a lot of real estate agents don't do that, is I look at their finances, you know, where they are. Is it a spouse? Is it you know, a child? Is it two siblings? And you know, and kind of figure out where they are and if they're out of town, you know, we try to figure out a situation for them. Typically, right around that 6-month mark, as you know, if they're paying the mortgage, if they're paying, you know, for landscaping and pool and, you know, air conditioning everything down here, they get a little bit drained. So, we can come in and just tell them, "Hey, you know, we can help you with those items, you know, with the care of the home and whatnot. And we can also get you money if you need that. We can help you with your paperwork. I have a list of things that you can do. I have a checklist for you." And most agents don't have that. So, we've got the resources. We've got all of our referral partners, and we bring that to the table. And I write out at least four or five different options to help them sell their home.

13:24 So, again, I think that comes from your partially your background as an investor helps quite a bit. But it's almost like you're taking a holistic comprehensive view of your customer like a nurse might with a patient, right? Yeah. So that's part that comes across to me is that you're trying to set yourself to a high standard and you have that approach of multiple things. Let's and then those of you who are watching on the live stream, feel free to put questions or comments there as well. I see we have people on Facebook and LinkedIn and YouTube. So if you're there, why don't you say hi, put your name and number in if you have a question, I'll monitor that live and we'll go ahead and try to get those questions in. Those of you are live in the Zoom as well, please raise your hand or put a question in the chat box. Love to have you guys participate. That's why we do this. So let's talk about the name The Probate Nurse. What was it that gave you the I mean, I get you're a nurse and you can approach it from a caring point of view, but to put that name on as a brand takes a bit of courage and putting yourself out there a little bit. So talk about that the before that decision and how you made it and how that's worked for you since. It just came together. It just really came together. You know, being on the farm and having that background of marketing, trying to think how I can separate myself from investors as well as agents and whatnot and I thought, you know, if I put those two together, those two words are going to make it huge. But it also what it does, you know, probate people kind of know what that is if they don't know they kind of know. A nurse like of course people know, but when you combine them, people go, "Well, the probate nurse? Like what That doesn't make any sense." So that's why I chose it because what it does is it raises the question from people like, "Well, what is that and what do you do?" And it opens up dialogue.

15:01 Isn't that your favorite question, "What do you do?" What's that? Isn't that your favorite question, "What do you do?" Yeah. What do you do? Let me tell cart in and you have a little oxygen tank thing and Yeah, you know. I have showed up at events with my white lab jacket on and my Love it. And my name tag and people are like, "What are you doing?" I go to these senior expos here in St. Pete and I show up and people stop and they look at you know, and like, "What are you doing?" So, and I have scrubs on. Pretty cool. It. I love it. Definitely a branding thing, yeah. My sister-in-law is a midwife. I didn't really know what a midwife was. I just thought you hang around in the hospital when the doctor's there and he walks out and you're helping the mother. No, she's in lieu of a doctor and she's in Israel where it's common in lieu of a doctor. She's like suturing and she's you know, has oxygen tanks, has forceps, has whoa. You know, and she and she started getting all the graphic details. I'm like, "Whoa, hold on. I'm a guy. We don't really talk about that stuff." So, I do think that the nurse in the name, it does provoke questions and of course you want people to ask you questions about that. I love the brand. Have you had any pushback? You've had anybody who said, "Gee, that seems wrong or inappropriate or you know, none at all?" Did you Not at all. No. I love it. I really love that name. Wow, where'd you get that, you know? So, it really is pretty cool.

16:21 Yeah. It works. You first got it and then tested it, did it feel right away or take a while to grow on you? It absolutely felt 100% right. And when I really discovered that was when I was making that website that you just showed. And I started doing my bio and writing out everything and it's all on my website if you guys want to check that out. It just felt so right, you know? It just felt so right. And one of the quotes where it says about us or about me, it starts with a quote about nursing and nurses and it's really it felt like the right fit. I think the thing So, I've coached I personally went through rebranding myself when I started in real estate decades ago. And then I changed recently from kind of my social media tag from @billgrossexp to @billgrossprobate. That was a that was a minor change. But, when I found probate and the way that I put my plan together, it you know, somebody said to me, "When you find the right voice, it will fit you." And it just fit me right away. I spent a couple days kind of letting out what that meant, like what do I do with it? But I've never had a second thought on that. And I think that's the thing I tell people is you need to put the work in to find that right voice. Maybe you stumble on it, maybe you don't. It took me probably, I don't know, a week before I really felt comfortable with what I wanted to do in the name. I spent hours a day, like 1 or 2 hours a day, really working on it. How long did it take you to go from, "I'm just a real chair who've been a nurse to the probate nurse." What was the process that led you through there? Or did it just pop in your head one day? How did it happen?

17:55 I jumped in. I literally just jumped right in. You know, I was doing regular real estate, conventional real estate, and then my mother became ill, and so I had to step back. You know, I stepped back from my business, got back in, and had to step back out again when my dad and brother both became ill literally days apart. So, I've had to rebrand myself, you know, a couple of times. I just like, you know, the name is there, but I stepped back and I wasn't really posting, and I wasn't actively seeking out clients, and I wasn't doing my letters, you know, I literally was falling apart. So, I stepped back and I regrouped, and we are relaunching as of now, to be honest. Okay. But when you took on the name the first time, did you just one day say, "probate nurse." Or did you think about it for a while? Like how did you actually Did somebody tell you need to brand yourself, you need to find a niche? How was it you got from doing real estate to being the probate nurse? Well, you know, again, I wanted something that was going to really set me apart from everybody. And, you know, and I started doing these probate cases a little while ago, and it just made sense. I mean, it was just kind of like, "Let's just go." And I you know, I talked to my broker about it, and I showed him my trifold and whatnot. He's like, "That's really good." And, you know, and it does bring an awareness to, you know, a section of real estate that's really not paid a whole lot of attention to.

19:22 Yeah. You know, a lot of Realtors® don't want to do it. So, yeah, I mean, I literally just jumped right in. I didn't even hesitate. I just I just switched over. There was no like thinking about it. I just did it, and I launched it, and that was that. So, you're the bad example because out there I know several people who I've tried to help to find their niche. And most of us, unlike you, I believe you have to go through a process to really figure it out. There's a process you can go through. My coach was Don Hobbs, who was a long-time real estate marketing coach. He was with Tony Robbins. He was with Success Magazine, past president. And, you know, I went to a presentation for about an hour and a half to explain what branding was. It's called The Brand Is You. In fact, I'll post it I'll post it on the in the YouTube channel. And it wasn't that it was that fantastic a presentation, meaning it wasn't that he said anything that was that amazing. The brand called you. It was that I took the time in his class to pay attention. And because of that, I spent the time afterwards to really think it through a couple different options I came across. So, anybody I that I would recommend watching that video and spending time watching it, taking some notes. I also did a mastermind group for Profit Mastery. I think it's still available if you want to purchase it. I don't get paid for it.

20:51 I just did it cuz it was fun to do on how to find your niche. I think it's really important. And again, the thing I will say, you can see in Melanie's eyes when she talks about it, when you find that voice, it just resonates. I mean, it's kind of like when I sing in the shower, I sound so good, you know? I know I don't know if I sound that good in real life, but in business I think you know, when I hit on for me, again this is for me, it's not for you, the LA Probate Expert, it really fit. It helped me take my business from where it was to level I've got to. So, a fantastic Okay, who's got questions? I know a number of you struggled with this. I know because I've talked to you and you've told me you have. So, how can I how can we help you? Here you have somebody who has dramatically changed their business and has I think created a really worthy value proposition. How can we help you with that business? And I'm looking if you're on the Zoom call, love to have you raise your hand or put in the chat box. And if you're on the social medias, love to have you There you go. Love the branding and niche marketing. I get that from Facebook. Yeah, I think Let me ask you this, how do you feel when you see your branding? I like it. I really like it. I love my logo. I actually have two. I use them interchangeably, but the one I really love, you know, it's got the chain, you know, with the house keys on it and the house, but it also really represents nursing. And I love it. So, it combines the two. So, when I look at it, you know, I feel good about it, you know? Yeah.

22:21 Just stop Just look at her smile. Like for those of us who find real estate at ti- Look, at times this business is tough. I've got some tough escrows. I'm blessed. I've got money. I've got money in the bank business bank account. I've got pending escrows. I have a good leads. I've got nothing to complain about. It's a tough business, okay? But when you're doing something you love for a good part of it, look how she lights up. We all should have that. We should all feel that way. And it gives you I think the confidence to talk to customers and feel good about it. Big Al Abdallah from Dearborn near Detroit, Michigan, what is up? Let's get you unmuted and you got a question. First of all, I think you're giving you're giving a lot of great content, a lot of great information. I love the name. I love the brand. I named one of my Realtors® the real estate doctor cuz his last name in Arabic is the doctors. I just want him to become the real estate doctor. But if I if I'm putting a brand together and you're not putting the word Realtor® in the name Probate Nurse, do people reach out to you also thinking you do just probate like estates and like kind of like what attorneys do and whatnot, or do they know you're automatically a Realtor®? They really didn't know that otherwise. They really wouldn't cuz I don't I don't put that in my marketing. So, you know, when I call people, I say I am, you know, I'm the Probate Nurse. What we do is we work with the community. You know, I got your name and number from community resources. We reach out to people who are going through probate. So, what I'm doing is a lot of videos now. And my taglines are going to be in the videos where I say, "Hey, you know, I'm the Probate Nurse." That my niche is senior transitions, probate and estate, and if you need to sell any real estate, let me know. So, yeah, I don't put that in there. And it's amazing how many people kind of What do you really do? So, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I don't know if I want to put it in there or not. Your thoughts on that?

24:17 I'm just you know, I've been doing probates as a Realtor®, I've been a Realtor® for 27 years or so. I've been doing probates a little more than 20 years statewide. And just you know, I'm trying to come up with a domain that connects me nationwide, right? But the domains I'm looking at, you know, just putting the word realty or Realtor®, to me I feel like helps, but at the same time, if you don't put Realtor® or realty, then you might get people that are going to reach out to you for probates, which the benefit for that is what it sounds like is you get you can connect those people with the law firms that you deal with Yes. Right. So, and then I'm still questioning do I need to put the word Realtor® or realty in there or not? And I'm just reading your I'm looking at your domain or your brand. And I'm just questioning myself right now as I as I see you. One thing that I will say about that is if you look at that, you will see Mahar and Associates. My logo is on there for my broker. So, it is on all my printed, you know, paperwork and whatnot. So, it has to be on there. So, people, you know, when I hand them a card or whatnot, they'll see who my broker is. There you go. Dick. This is a compliance issue. We have that in California as well. We have to have the broker name.

25:35 Yeah. Definitely. Broker and the Department of Real Estate of In fact, we have to have it on the top screen. We can't even put it down below. And then that QR code right there takes you right to my website with Mahar. So, I have two different websites. I've got my KV Core like you do, Bill. And then that will take you to there. And then I've got my other one that is more focused on probate. Right. Yeah, and I and I'll tell you that I do get people who call me and assume either cuz of my name or the way they heard me talk that I'm an attorney. I don't mislead anybody. And I'm careful to tell them I'm I can't give you legal advice. I can give you business advice. But I love those conversations because I don't know how it is for you. You know, if you work with really good attorneys, you're really blessed. To me, 10% of attorneys are great and I learn a lot from them. But 90% they know less than I do about the real estate part of probate. In many cases, less about the probate. They might know the law and the litigation and civil procedures. But so, for me, I feel like I am an expert in probate. And people go, "Oh, you're not attorney. I'm really surprised you know so much." I love when they say that cuz that I feel that I have them locked in. So, I don't know that I would I'm not sure what your plans are, but I wouldn't be too anxious to put Realtor® realty to limit what you're doing because the Remember, the goal is to serve your customer.

26:55 What's the customer looking for? The customer's looking for you to solve a problem, whatever that might be. Okay. Hope it helps a little bit. You're muted. You got to unmute yourself. Sorry. Sorry. I have it unmuting after I'm done talking, so no one distraction of noise. So, I'm not saying that I don't want to say I'm a Realtor®, but if I if I don't say I'm a Realtor® or realty, I still got to put, you know, broker by EXP Realty, etc., you know, my brokerage, etc. I don't want to say that I'm not a Realtor®. I'm just trying to save my brand, cuz right now I'm just the Al Abdallah Team, for example. And I if I want to brand myself as real estate or probate or real I think not putting Realtor®, but put a broker by EXP Realty, eventually will get us those conversations where I can then refer them, connect them to the different law firms or lawyers or whoever. I think it works better without the word I don't know. Now that I'm looking at you, Melanie, I'm thinking, okay, wait a second. Me a Realtor® is not the best way to do this for a brand of probate. Correct, because you are you are actually like a you know, resource. You're like a Rolodex, you know? We're going back old school now. You are you know, you are that level, that vertically integrated platform where you can refer people out to anything. So, no matter what that person says to you should be able to have, you know, some sort of a response back to them saying, "Oh, your house is, you know, not in good shape. We definitely have people for that. Yeah, I can refer you to my contractor. Oh, you don't have an estate plan anywhere. You know, let me get one for you. And by the way, you know, who's left behind? Is there anybody else in the home? You know, the wife has just passed. We have a husband who needs assisted living." Great. Let me get a consultation with, you know, Susan over here at the assisted living. And let's just see what we can help you with. So, yeah, there should be it shouldn't really be about the real estate. That's kind of going to be the next step.

28:53 For me, I don't talk about that right away. I never go in and, you know, and go right to it. It's just having been through it myself, I just know that, you know, there's a certain time and a place you don't really want to bring up real estate right away because it'll piss off a lot of people. They're angry. They just lost their dad or whatever. So, but anyway, using your brand like that is something going to allow you to talk about more things than just the real estate. You can talk about helping them with money, you know, whatever they need, whatever it is they need. Yeah. Look, I'm just talking to you, too, Al. I talk about a lot of things almost as much as I do real estate. Right? I mean, I talk about a lot you know junking out a house and they want to sell certain things and getting rid of the cars and relocate. All these things are things I get involved with and the real estate, like you, I've done it for a while. I'm pretty efficient with my time on the real estate. I don't spend a lot of time filling out a contract team. I don't spend a lot of time doing CMAs. So, I think that the accurate position is you know, we're creating value for the customer in that space. Real estate's the one service I get paid on. The other ones I trade the leads for business in a sense or, you know, it works out. I don't really I don't have affiliate programs and I don't ask people for money back and I don't ask them for froze back specifically. It just happens that way. So, I think I just think it's if you really think about what percentage of your time you really spend doing real estate in your private business versus the other parts of it's not all it's not 100 Yeah, it's not 100%. It might be 50, but it's not 100.

30:25 And that's why it having your name, I think, is just check your thinking on this. I think it might just be you're you've been thinking that way for a while, but if you rethink it, you're not really doing real estate all day long. I don't think. I assume I about your business. Marketing all day long. Marketing, like a machine. It looks for real. Talking to people I'm talking to people all day long about their business and how to do more and help them through their problems and challenges and doing management. So, I think I think I would say Al, if there's one Oh, you're excuse me. The other thing I would say if I give one suggestion is to anybody to everybody on the call, not just Al again, I don't I know Al, but I don't know him that well. The one mistake agents make is we say we think about things and what we really mean is we have posted a posted note on our brain to do something and we never really think about it. When I say think about it, I mean go in your calendar, block an hour. I have a whiteboard in the next room and I think about it for an hour or I'm on my computer on a Google Doc, I'll think about it for an hour, write out an outline and make some notes. So, I would suggest all those of you who are struggling with this issue, what's my niche or how to make it sound or it sounds pretty good, but I'm not quite locked in on it, spend a half hour or an hour of scheduled have phone off, no distractions, really thinking about it and get some clarity on it. I'm sorry, Al, I know you wanted to say something.

31:44 No, I just I you know, in your Oh, You're absolutely right. I froze. I don't know if my computer froze or whatever. You guys can hear me, right? Yep. Okay. Okay. You I think the one thing I do spend a lot of time with and you're right is talking to my clients about everything except the real estate part, you know, the trash out, clean out, the whatever it may be, estate sale, donation, whatever's involved, I spend a lot of time with them more than I do with the real estate side and I think the real estate the attorneys love when I do that for them because it like I told you Bill on another call, it reduces their invoice with their client, too. So, a lot of the Realtors® and law firms love the fact that I'm spending that extra time on questions and answers where they don't got to deal with all that nitty-gritty little stuff cuz most attorneys and law firms don't know what we know, the behind the scenes involved in that real estate house part. And I think that's extremely important that people that are dabbling into this don't just think about it as a commission check as a sale. Look at it as a service, you know, be service driven, not profit driven. Yeah, that's a good point. Solution provider. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, that's how I look at it. I spend more time Whatever their thing is, whatever they need help with, you have a solution, whatever it is. And if you don't, just find someone, you know, just find someone to help them.

33:09 And my clients need to get bonded, they have to open an estate account at a bank. I mean, all these are things that I do that How do Realtors® even know those things are involved? They didn't What? Probate bond? What the heck is that? They need a bank account? Why can't they spend in their own bank account? So, those are things where I think I spend more time on that stuff than I do the real estate. And you know, thanks for Al, I think you froze up there. Thank you so much. Great insight. So, a couple questions in the chat box. Michelle asked how you connected to the clients. So, I think, you know, I told a story about another woman, Melanie, before that I know an agent out of South Carolina, North Carolina, kind of a regional area. When I was coaching her, she was also had been a nurse. And I was talking about her, but she got out of it to be a Realtor®. And she I was going through her business with her and where does this all come from, where that went. And she had a couple deals from her best friend, Susie, whatever. Well, what Susie do? Susie was the sales rep for like a senior rehab center of some sort. And it turned out the center had like three or four hundred beds, which is huge. And they had seven such facilities in the regional area. And in her center, they had like two or three sales reps. So, each one had two or three sales reps times seven, there's like 15 to 20 of her best friends.

34:28 I said, "Well, do you talk to any of the others?" Right? And she was a nurse. And because she'd been a nurse, her friend was comfortable talking to her about families who would bring mom to the property, and then mom passes, and they would come to her, and who do we talk to? And there's a unique relationship that nurses have in those facilities that she was able to make work. I said, "Well, why don't you invite all the other Suzy's friends out to an event? They have regional sales meetings. Why don't you go to it and go to bar and pick up the bar tab for them that night or something, or you have 15 new best friends, not just one best friend." So, that's where we started, and I think somebody's asking, "Do you use your nursing as a tool in talking to nurses at facilities? Is that something you approach specifically, or have you?" I do, actually. And how this kind of came about for me is when I was home caring for my dad, I started looking online, you know, for senior events and networking events and things like that. And I happened to find a Zoom meeting that was going on like the next day. And so, when I jumped on that, you know, I had myself, you know, blacked out. I didn't want anyone to see me, and there was like seven people on there. And come to find out, it was, you know, it was a really great group out of Pasco County, just north of Tampa. And they welcomed me in, and then they started inviting me to all of their events. And a lot of their events take place at assisted livings and nursing homes and whatnot. So, that's how I kind of got in with the group of people that I'm working with now. And I met with an estate lawyer who was part of this group. His assistant Aida was on this call, and she said, "I really want you to come in and meet Michelangelo from Mortellaro Law here in Tampa." And when I looked him up, he's like the number one estate planning lawyer here in Tampa. And I'm like, "Holy Like really? Are you kidding me right now?" So, long story short, it has taken a long time to gain that trust and that respect. You can you can walk the walk and talk the talk, but you have to deal with these people, and you have to keep showing up consistently, and not just one event, but the ones that are way across town as well and earn that. So,

36:32 What I did today is I This is really cool. I organized a meeting in one of the Tampa areas over in Clearwater and we're going to have Michelangelo come and speak and he's going to be talking about estate planning and protecting your assets. So, that's one event and now we're going to be doing one in my community, which is Northwest Tampa. In this community we are going to have an estate planning event and have a whole panel of people there talking to people at the local community center like the library. So, this is huge. And so the branding works with not just the market you're attaching, but the way you approach it. So, it wouldn't work for me. I'm not networking with nurses. So, or I'm not networking environment where nurses are held in higher the highest team is going to reflect on me. Nothing against nurses, but I'm just saying you got to fit the niche for you and that's why when the when you find the right brand, you can hear when she talked about that. When you find that right fit, it just fits like a glove. Wow, this one fits. The other one doesn't. So, And it takes time though. You know, it really does take time to be accepted in because it's a very tight community, you know, senior care is very tight and you know, it's very well respected and the people are, you know, they're doing they're doing some great work, you know, and they want to make sure that you're going to be that person that they want to refer their clients to as well. You know, and you just do your job, show up and hopefully start getting referrals. So, I am building that whole referral base through this group of people, which is just getting larger and larger and larger.

38:05 Fantastic. Now, what you're saying there though is basic networking rules are you've got to show up multiple times. There's no event that's going to change your career. There's networking events if you go to every week or every month. And what I what I find is if you go three times, people think you've gone 10 times. You go 10 times they think you've been there for 3 years. You get an extra bonus when you show up consistently, but it does take multiple visits in any network environment to do well. Yeah, and it really can't be about you. You know, it has to be about meeting the needs of the people that you're meeting with, you know, and then in that conversation you might be able to say, "Well, you know, I'm really interested in learning a little bit more about assisted living and Medicaid. How does that work and who can I talk to?" So, I've gone to a bunch of assisted living facilities and I've toured them with the people who are in sales. And you do those? They talk to me. I actually had a gal here in Orlando. I had a referral for Orlando. So, yeah, I mean, you know, you just have to go and you have to show up and you have to be present for people and figure out what is missing in their business. And I just explained, "Hey, I'm a Realtor®, but I'm not, you know, a Realtor®. This is what we do." And they're like, "Really?" So, yeah, so that's what I'm really, you know, kind of capitalizing on now here with these estate planning events. You know, we're doing, you know, funeral planning, pre-funeral planning, you know, estate planning, putting homes into trust. Any clients that I have that are buying a home and closing on, I'll send them to Michelangelo or another gal that I have in St. Pete. I say, "You should think about putting your home in trust, you know, so you don't have to go through this. I work in probate." And they'll say, "Oh, you know, I'm working with someone who's in who needs your help right now." I've had calls this week from Ohio and people that need help. I'm getting calls from investors.

39:45 They don't know anything about the probate thing. So, it's just interesting. It just spirals. And it just picks up speed. And that's all I can say, you guys. If you pick one thing that you want to roll with, just go with it and stick with it and be consistent. I did this while I was caring for people that were terminally ill. And if I can do this at my computer, anyone can do it. Really. Anyone. You hear the passion in her voice when she talks especially in this market. It. I'm I am so excited and I honestly, I just I don't even know what to say. It's just opened up such a different world for me. It's about being with people who care and they're compassionate and they welcome you in, you know, and that is just they're so thankful. Just kept the chat box. Danny made a comment about the word Realtor®. Realtor® is a trademark of the National Association of REALTORS®. So, you be very careful when you use the word Realtor®, when you use it, how you use it. You probably can't put it in your branding. Even though you can put your name, {comma} Realtor®, even that's a challenge because some states don't want that specifically. That's just so Right. If you're going to brand yourself, I would not include the word Realtor® in the brand. It's just very complicated and going to cause too much attention. I think part of also is you don't If you work for a big company like I do, you don't want the compliance department looking too closely unless you're really ready to spend the time and money to fix everything.

41:08 And Matt Price says he's a certified estate specialist and he believes it's real estate when it's really more tag sales and auctions. That's interesting. Yeah, so estate sales to me also, I you know, I know I vendors who are in the estate sale business and I always think of real estate as estate sale, but it's the opposite really. They're selling everything but the real estate. I always tell them, "Well, good. Well, then just feel free to send the real estate leads to me. I'm glad to help you out with that." But I use them all the time. But I said again, that's a branding issue and I think the problem there is that again, you might not be it that might not distinguish you to the customers might cuz you're describing what you do, but not what problem you're solving for your customer. And so for me, the problem I want to solve is I found consumers confused as to who's the right attorney and how do I fix it? That's why I'm the expert. And in Melissa's case, she found people who were in need and had emotional parts that need to be dealt with in a certain caring way, but yet authoritatively. I think if I could summarize you, and that's why she's a probate nurse. And so, I think when I hear estate sales, I know what it means, but I didn't know what it means for a while. And I think that really you might think about I've seen people with taglines regarding clutter and organization. I just think that's a that's if you're branding the activity, you would think about the solution to the customer's problem, not your daily activity. We're not Yes, we do certain things. I go in and I'm a list, but it that's not what I That's not what my customer First of all, they just want to know what's the house worth, and can you get that for me? So.

42:47 Okay, last call for questions. And if you're on the If you're watching this on live stream, we got a nice following on YouTube and Facebook. Love to have you guys participate. And if you get on the call on the recording, I'm pretty good, I think, responding to comments. So, feel free to ask questions there. And if it's something for Melanie, I'll circulate to her, and I'm sure she'd be nice enough to answer those, as well. Just a quick recap. This is Probate Weekly. We do this every Thursday, 4:00 p.m. Pacific time, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And we live stream it onto YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and record it there, as well. And the companion to this group is the Facebook group called Probate Weekly, where we have 2,900. Please, get me to 3,000. I want to stop begging for that. Where we get together and referrals, share your probate and estate planning-related content. Love to help you grow your audience, as well. As far as this program, we also have a YouTube channel. Go to episodes. Dot you probateweekly.com, you'll see this episode and all the past episodes. Or you can go to @billgrossprobate for my YouTube channel, and as a whole. And then, a reminder, again, so appreciate today of Melanie Hands, The Probate Nurse, and the probatenurse.com is an easy way to remember where to find her at. So, love to see you guys support there. Okay. So, Melanie, what we're going to wrap up here. I'm going to ask you for kind of your recommendation. So, as a Realtor® who's playing a probate, they know they sell some houses, they make a living maybe not as much as they'd like. They've seen probate, they've played with it. They're thinking, "Maybe I'm going to go all in on this." What should they do to help them find their right spot, their right mission, their right niche in this so they'll feel as excited about the business as you are? What would you recommend them to do?

44:28 Yeah, it really is about finding that niche that you really feel comfortable in and it's going to take a while, but I think, you know, if you're going to go into probate, you just have to know that you have to, number one, master your emotions, you have to really find out from your clients, you know, what their situation is and how you can help them. And if you feel uncomfortable doing that, then I don't recommend it because it gets it gets really ugly, right? This business can get very ugly with family members and whatnot. If you feel like you're that you really want to help people and assist families that are going through tragic time, I think, you know, this might be the niche for you. You might be better off doing senior transition, downsizing. Not everyone's made to do probate or, you know, estate or anything like that. And I'm just going to throw out some numbers, but, you know, maybe not the numbers, but what's going on, you know, the boomers are aging out. So, you can offer your services as downsizing. You can offer to help them clean out, you know, and do estate sales like we were just talking about. You can help them with the move, you can help them rehab their home. If they want to rent it out, they can pull their money out, you know, there's just so many different things that you can do if you really think about the seniors and what they really truly need. And you can fill that void because there's not enough of us that are out there actively working with seniors. They need you. They really need you. So, again, probate's not for everyone, but there are many things that encompass that, not just probate. So, there's a lot of different niches that you can pull from that if you dig a little bit deeper and find out what the needs are of the clients.

46:02 So, I'll translate that what Melanie's saying is if you don't uncomfortable with a poopy diaper, don't become a neonatal nurse, right? Or poopy Do not do it. And if you are, you can deal with it doesn't bother you, and you feel like you're bringing joy to people's lives by dealing with it, by all means jump in and do that. So, there's many niches. I think that's the other thing I want to If I could just modify what you say a little bit and leave everybody with is the mistake we make as Realtors® is two. One is we go in this business as an as like it's a job and we're on a commission check. It's a business. Businesses build equity, businesses address customers and build followings of clients and customers. You need to think of it as a business number one. I think the second Wow, I just lost my train of thought of that. First one is it's a business. And the second one is Ooh. Never mind, the first one's too good. We'll just leave it at that. Think about this as a business. Build your equity. Find your niche. Serve that value there gratefully. And Oh, I know, the second one is I feel like in probate we get sold by companies that the only way to business is you have to be a cold caller, you have to buy our data, and cold call, or cold email, or cold mail, or cold text. I'm going to do a whole piece on this these texts I've been getting lately as executor. You can design your business that works for you that you want to Look at the joy in Melanie's voice when she talks about these meetings she's putting together and how she addresses people. We all deserve to work and have that joy that we in turn give to our customers and clients because we're happy with what we do, not because we're doing it cuz we have to grind out 4 hours a day of cold calls on the phone. So, you know, I want to leave you guys with that lesson is find your niche and then it's not that you won't work the rest of your life cuz it's still work, but it will be much more pleasant.

47:48 Fantastic. Okay, good. Melanie, thank you so much for time today. The For the rest of you, thank you for being on the call today. Probateweekly.com every Tuesday 4:00 p.m. Pacific, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Love having you guys. Thank you so much. Reach out if I can help you. @billgrossprobate and we'll see you soon. Bye-bye. Thank you so much, Bill.