Probate Surety Bonds Simplified, with Bryce Desai of Jet Surety

0:01 Welcome to Probate Weekly. I'm your host, Bill Gross. And one of the things that has to happen in almost in almost every probate is a bond. In California, it might be a minimal bond. It might be a large bond unless it's waved specifically. A very common requirement for almost every probate. And they often I find people get tripped up in the process of bond. So, how you get the bonds important, but more than that, on this episode, we're going to be able to talk to somebody who regularly talks to attorneys and petitioners in a probate case to kind of learn from their angle what they see and hopefully will help us be better in our business. I'm really excited today to have today from Jet Surety Bryce Desai. We've talked before. Bryce, welcome to our podcast. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me back. I'm excited to be here. And so, talk a little bit about how do you see Jet Surety fitting in? I know you guys have a number of other related businesses, but you're in the probate division. Talk about the probate division. How do you see yourself fitting into the marketplace? Yeah, absolutely. So, we are a surety bond company that specializes in lots of types like you said, probate being one. And one thing that sets us apart in our value proposition is that we will work directly with the petitioner, with the administrator, with the attorney. So our business model is unlike traditional insurance companies where they broker bonds from sureties, we are the actual source and we will provide the bonds directly and with that ties in our expertise in the probate space, California in particular, as well as our service you know we're always available and very customer serviceoriented and if I remember right, I've been on your website before that you guys do offer a calculator right online. So rather than have a mystery as what the cost is, somebody go online, answer some simple questions, and as a result get a quote for what a bond's going to be. We That's funny you mentioned. We're actually working on setting up that calculator right now. We've got a pricing grid on there where you can base what the bond amount will be. You can

2:03 Base that range off of what approximate price will be. And then you know one thing that's really important to our business model is that you can shoot us a quick email and give us a phone call and we'll give you a price in seconds. But that online feature will be available soon very soon. Okay. So let's talk about again you are available to petitioners you know I would say B2C the actual consumer of the product rather than just through the provider which is a little bit different. Do you get phone calls from people who are searching to start the process? Do you get phone calls from people maybe who were turned down by another bond? Do you get called by people who maybe got quoted and think the bond is too expensive and then you're able to provide competition? What where's the majority of your intake come from? Yes. All of the above apply and you know come in on a daily basis. The most common most common inquiry we'll get will be when someone recently got that order appointing them with the bond requirement and they're shopping around to get an understanding of what the price will be and you know what a bond even is because that's a common first question. But oftent times too attorneys will call in and make sure that their client is bondable before they even file the petition and invest hundreds into starting the process. And then commonly too, you know, if someone's had trouble elsewhere, perhaps they don't have an attorney, a little bit lower on the financial side, we work with them and try to find a solution that makes sense for both of us. I know some bond companies will bond somebody who's otherwise unbondable if the attorney is on the bond as well and a signature on the bank account. Do you guys offer that product? Oh, yes, absolutely. And that's a great solution.

3:42 That's very common in conservatorships, which could come up in California probate where, you know, let's say there's a significant amount of cash or other types of assets that the conservatee has. If the attorney is on that and we set up some type of funds control, that's, you know, an excellent point where we can move to towards an approval. Another instance too where, you know, if we just get written confirmation that the attorney is going to stay involved and we get some guarantees on that front, that's another way where we can get it approved. And, you know, we're flexible because we specialize in probate. So, we have a what we like to think is a very strong understanding of what the risks truly are. And so we can, you know, really speak with the principal or the petitioner, speak with the attorney, get a good feel for the case, and then we'd be able to provide someone a bond where otherwise they'd be unbondable, right? And that's the challenge. And I always tell people, just because one bond company won't approve you, doesn't mean you can't you're not bondable. You're not bondable to that company. But it's like everything else like mortgage loans or like insurance that comes with different criteria, different appetites, different structures, different days of the week and all those pl factor in and you always want to get another opinion before you give up. Because not getting the bond can make the process much more difficult and slow down. So you do have people called you know who are shopping around obviously which could either mean they're looking for better price and or they've been declined. So let's talk about both those possibilities. I find declined is because the bond company they talked to didn't offer solutions but just said you don't fit in this box. So I know in working with you it sounds like you're looking to if necessary create the right box for somebody to fit into.

5:28 That's a great way to put it. That's exactly right. And that's some pretty common feedback we've gotten from past customers where let's say you know someone's extremely wellqualified on their own personally, but it's getting into a million dollar $2 million estate and you know they're refusing to bring on an attorney often because they want to save expenses for the heirs and themselves and their siblings. You know we'll work with them get a good understanding and of their professional experience and get a quote in that way. But yeah, absolutely. It's all about just getting a understanding for the situation and not being too rigid in the underwriting requirements. Because you know, every probate case is unique. Now, I'm sure you also like to work with people who have recurring business, I.e. Attorneys or fiduciaries. And so there they have a relationship. They you've already written them once, you've seen them perform maybe a couple times or they have a history that you can go back and look at. Are they more likely? Are they, you know, is a fiduciary going to be, I imagine, more bondable just because they're professional and they're in the business. Do you have though also other service options or other advantages to fiduciaries or attorneys who are looking to get binded themselves in a case like this? Yeah, certainly. That's actually one of our bigger marketing pieces where we have a dedicated program set up for attorney partners. We're just now pushing a thousand attorneys signed up with us. And what that'll be is where they have a custom application where say their client comes in and needs a bond.

6:57 They have an application branded with their law firm. They have a dashboard where they can access all of their clients bonds from the past and this new case. And it's basically just a full one-stop shop for their bond where everything goes through them and they're the ones creating the value for the client and we're just doing all the work in the background. So, is the bond then already in place because the attorneys bonded and they're just doing this to guarantee the portion or it is actually creating a new bond each time, but they have a format and a tool to make it easier. It's more the latter. They have that tool to make it easier. Got it. Excuse me. So, you know, I also know that sometimes attorneys get customers who are you know tight for the cash like maybe they're inheriting you know a lot of property. There's no liquid assets. So, do bonds have to be paid in cash the full year upfront to get issued? What's the what's the cash flow look like on getting a bond for an estate? Right. That can be a burden because we would require payment upfront. You know, that would be debit or credit card or a paper check being mailed to us. One important point that we always emphasize though is that the bond is an estate related expense to where you know there is there may be a stress on having cash up front, but that expense isn't something that should be taken out of the administrator's pocket. It should be coming from the estate. And we emphasize that, you know, here's your receipt.

8:29 Make sure you include this in your accounting and get reimbursed for it. And oftentimes too, depending on the relationship, the attorney can advance the premium or if a Realtor® is involved helping with the property sale and making sure that the listing goes through, they'll advance the premium as well. So, when the customer pays for the bond, let's say they do the application, what's a typical time to get underwritten or what's a range of the most likely time periods from application to them getting from you, hey, you're approved. As soon as you pay this then we can issue the bond. Yeah, we one thing that we pride on is ourselves on is just our instant quote options. So for any estate where there's an administrator executive, you can get an instant quote up to 250,000 where you start the application, go through it in 5 minutes and then you'll have your quote ready to purchase. So it can be as little as five minutes or if there's some type of complexity to the estate, we'll underwrite it and review it within a day or two and then, you know, they'll be able to purchase the bond online. Usually when folks come in, they leave happy with the bond in far less than a week. Okay. And then how long once they decide to make the purchase, they put their credit card in and pay for it. What's the time from then the actual issuance of the bond? The bond would get issued automatically and a copy by email would be would go immediately to their you know their email inbox. The probate bond process is a little old school like other aspects of the court where you'd have to wait for the original to come from the surety. So we'll get that mailed on the same day that they purchase it, but you know unless they're doing overnight delivery, we've got to wait for the post office to get it to them.

10:10 Got it. So, the bond, you know, is people get proof of the letters and they shop for the bond. They get proof of the bond, they pay for the bond, the bond shows up, then they have letters. It always seems to me that you know you look at people's incentives a bonding company that I've worked with quite a bit unfortunately or I say very commonly it's almost like they're glad the things drag out because then what happens is the renewal comes up and they almost get like a secondyear you know insurance policy if the probably takes you know a year and a week they get a second year they charge versus if it closes in 11 months they only get one year. So, let's talk about that. The renewal, is it do they pay for the whole year? Do they pay have to pay for in advance? Is a refund of portion or that just kind of I most bond companies that's just the way it goes. Once you go past a year, that second year you pay for advance, you're kind of out that money. How does it work with your company? Yeah, we try to keep in mind that probates do typically take 12 to 18 months. And so on that 18th month category, you know, you probably will need to renew the bond, but you won't need it for that full year. So, we'll always make sure that we provide a prorated refund based on the day that the estate is actually closed. So, in that 18th month example, someone might have to come in and pay $2,000 for their a million- dollar bond renewal, but once it actually does get closed six months in to the second year, they'll be able to get a good refund of about half of that back. So we do make sure and honestly we do like when the estates closed within a year because that shows that you know the estate's being handled well promptly and people are doing what they're supposed to in terms of you know getting that probate closed right now in the case in your case you're not as concerned about the equity of the probate estate as you're getting paid in advance. Maybe the attorney or other vendors are concerned about that. So really, you do your best. You know, when they say their house is worth a million dollars, maybe I guess you go online and

12:11 Check Zillow or Redfin or something to get a ballpark, but at the end of the day, you don't really care much because they're going to pay the fee either way and you're insured based on they're not going to they're not going to overestimate the assets because they just pay more for the bond that they wouldn't otherwise need. Right. Exactly. That would lead to a higher bond amount and therefore a higher premium by the court and the actual because it's very difficult when you get started with probate and when the bond is actually needed because you don't have letters yet. You can't actually get a good understanding of what an asset might be worth. And so whenever a property is ended up being sold, then that those accurate numbers will get reported to the court and more so on a national scale if a bond amount is needed to be increased. We'll certainly we'll certainly find out because the court won't let anything further happen without that. What states do you operate in or are there any states that you don't operate in? We operate in all 50 states. So everything from Alaska to Florida and everywhere in between. California is one of our it's our biggest premium state and our you know we've issued the second highest number of bonds there. Right behind our home state, North Carolina. Oh, North Carolina is your first your home state. Interesting. Is that because you started there and built up the relationships there? Is that what that's about? Exactly. Yeah, we're relatively new compared to other shies, you know, just being founded in 2018, but we started up in Charlotte and have slowly expanded. You know, we've got an office in Sacramento now. But North Carolina is always home. Nice. Good for you. So, in some regards, you're in a similar business to real estate agents might be watching this in that we try to develop relationships with attorneys or fiduciaries who send us business regularly. We often get our customers not directly but through those third parties. Talk a little bit about what you do to develop relations and maintain relations with attorneys and professionals that refer your business.

14:05 Yeah. No, that's a great question and I think the biggest aspect of that is the service the service portion because there are a million bond companies out there and oftent times once an attorney secures a bond for one client that's the bonding company moving forward. And so whenever a Realtor® may come in or an attorney may come in, we want to make sure that we're providing them with the absolute best service. And the same applies to a Realtor® working with anybody else. If you're applying and giving them the best possible service, then that relationship is established. And so, you know, making sure that our customer service is top tier is one point, but another point is the education aspect. You know, many people who are going through probate, they aren't even expecting the bond. They're just now getting their head wrapped around what the court case is. And so us being able to be readily available and accessible to the Realtor®, they can come into us before their client meeting, learn everything they need to know about the bond, and then have that expertise in their back pocket to create value for their client. So, it would seem to me that, you know, I mean, I this is what I would think of as a B2B podcast where most I'm dealing with professionals like you, attorneys, fiduciaries, vendors, and such. I have a separate two actually separate podcast but one's exeum which is oriented towards executives of estates and things like that. So I guess my question and there the you know the education is a little different. I do try to keep in front of my prospective customers by showing them and educating them regularly and become a resource. Do you do any kind of marketing to the consumer directly? Obviously you can do Google ads and Facebook ads to generate leads but do you do anything kind of educationally to explain to customers what bonds are? I know I end up explaining it to customers from time to time. I know it's a very misunderstood.

15:52 Even attorneys don't really understand the process and what's involved with it. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly the Google ads is the main way to market in terms of B2C. But also, you know, kind of running in line with that is organic SEO marketing where you create these informative guides. You pour over each state's probate code and state statutes and you develop an indepth, you know, everything you need to know manual about that state's bond and that'll naturally rank highly on Google, which will, you know, therefore get more, you know, consumer eyes. But then that also, you know, in two birds, one stone, it gives them that educational piece to where they'll find us immediately and then learn everything they need to know about the bond. Got it. What do you see as the biggest challenge that attorneys have in building their business, meaning you deal with people, of course, they're just a customer and they might just apply for a bond and you provide it. I'm sure along the way, you're developing relationships with people. What do you see as the biggest challenge on developing more business whether a Realtor® or an attorney and gain trust from estate so they work with them rather than turn to them after they've started on their own? Yeah. Yeah. No, certainly. I think in terms of bringing in new business from folks we wouldn't usually work with. I think it's getting past the barrier of the cemented relationships that are in the probate space because everybody has their go-to bond company. And if a new client comes in, they'll apply with that current company, perhaps get denied, and they'll see it as, okay, this person isn't bondable. It's not, oh, perhaps there's another solution out there. So, I think a way to overcome that solution is, you know, doing things like this, you know, meeting with you, Bill, and, you know, networking with as many people as possible. I think just adding that extra bit of exposure, you know, helps us get in front of people where that might need the bond because our service and our pricing is there. You know, we definitely have that superior service.

17:46 It's just a matter of getting our foot in the door. Well, there's nobody in my experience who has an attorney that either isn't bondable or can't be bonded with the attorney if the bond company does its job properly. In my experience and I think that's where oftentimes we all get a little lazy sometimes or shortcut or we're busy and people like you say they have their preferred vendor and they get turned down and it's easy to say well you're not bondable and that's not really the right answer and many cases they maybe didn't need the bond the attorney didn't ask for the right type of authority and they end up having to get a bond for whatever reason as well as another option so it just seems to me that you're right and you This is something that really rings with me as a real estate agent. Every attorney has their go-to Realtor® before they meet me. My goal is to supplant them and say, "Well, I do a lot more than them. Here's the things I do for you." One of which is, "Who's your bond company?" I always ask them that. Who you working with? And if they're not working with somebody that I know, I'm going to bring somebody in that I know and explain how they can create value. So, that's a very interesting process. Now, is your marketing mostly one-on-one? You do, you know, is that meaning attorney calls you in and says, you know, hey, I'm I had this one case and then from there you turn that into a relationship or how does that how does that process look to you?

19:05 Yeah. Yeah. We I mean Google ads is perhaps our most prominent, you know, marketing strategy because often when people are needing to get into probate bonds, they're doing that initial research. And then on top of that too, you know, we do like working directly with attorneys in terms of bringing new licensed attorneys in. We, you know, there's public publicly available information on lawyers.com and resources like that where you can get attorney information and, you know, send them some solicitations or mailers introducing ourselves. And that does that does work very well. And that's, you know, perhaps an option for Realtors® to get into their foot into the door with new attorneys and creating those relationships is you know, there's a lot of publicly information, publicly available information online that you could reach your customer with or your target audience with. And especially now with the AI to take that public information, reformat some sort of a marketing piece and make it look like yours or make it yours in essence. And I think you want to learn about it. I always tell people, you know, learn one thing about the industry and then, you know, understand it, reformat into a message you can give out, whether it be a video like I'm doing here or do it a graphic piece or brochure and share that with your customer base. And the idea there is the more you do that, the more valuable you're going to be to your customers, the more likely they are to choose you. Well, look, I obviously you can talk about bonds forever because you do every day. And I also I find it really deep and I think we've done a nice job kind of giving an oversight.

20:33 The best way to get more information about your company number one is your website jetsurety.com, J-E-T as in a rocket jet, you guys are so fast, surety, S-U-R-E-T-Y dot com and then you have a lree which is link trjetrobate so jetrobate your social media and there you have get started probate solutions for Realtors® probate bond guide how to get approved and then also scheduling a meeting with one of your is that you or one of your team members I guess either one hopefully it's you if they're if they got lucky. If not, they'll get somebody else. Bryce, I really appreciate you coming on today and sharing with us about Jet Surety and the bonds and thank you for your help. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. And again, jetsurety.com is the website and Bryce is the contact person we deal with. I'm Bill Gross. This is Probate Weekly. We get together every week and talk about how to be more effective as probate professionals, whether you're a real estate agent or an attorney or vendor in the probate space. We have a Facebook group where you can continue the conversation. If you want to get reminders, probateweekly.com. You can put your email address in. Optional if you want to add your phone number for occasional text links. And if you scroll down, you can both get on other audio formats as well as get past episodes on YouTube. Love to have you join us. I'm Bill Gross at billgrossprobate.com on social media. And as always, make today your best