Probate 101: Florida Probate, with Attorney Alecia C. Daniel

0:01 Welcome to Probate Weekly. I'm your host, Bill Gross at Bill Gross Probate. We get together week and interview top professionals in the industry, attorneys, real estate agents, vendors, and such to learn how to better work with our customers and be better at serving our customers, create more value for them in the long run. We're excited to have a repeat guest. Alicia C. Daniel is a probate attorney as well as a licensed real estate agent as well as a lot of other stuff as well as fun lady to talk to and very informative and we're talk today kind of the basics of probate and how an attorney plays kind of the role as the point guard in the probate process. Alisa, thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me again. Now, you're located in the state of Florida. Yes, I am. So, and I know California law real well. I'm not as Florida, though. Talked a few times and other people as well I've worked with. What is in California the biggest misconception in probate is you have a will, you avoid probate when in fact all the will is something that gets processed in probate with or without the will you're going to go through probate unless you have some sort of state plan that takes it out of that. How about Florida? Does a will get you out of probate or what circumstances does it No, it's the same thing. What I always say is a will without probate is just a piece of paper. What it is it serves as the instruction manual for your probate case. So, if probate is required, we're going to probate. And the only thing that's going to be determinative is whether you have a will that's going to determine who's going to receive whatever property you're leaving behind or if we're going to be following Florida law to determine who gets what.

1:38 So, Florida has like a default will process as to who the heirs are. If you want to change that, you put it in a will and that goes to probate or you use some other estate planning tool to avoid all of that. But a will does not avoid probate. A will is verified in probate and I guess either adhere to or translated and effectuated in probate court. Correct. Exactly. How often do you get customers or clients who say to you, "But I have a will. Don't I avoid probate?" How often does that happen to you? Because I hear that all the time. All the time. All the time. And you see it a little bit more now with social media because there's all sorts of bad information out there. So a lot of people have this misconception that, oh, if you have a will, you don't need probate. I all the time, right? And there are states that's true, but not Florida, not California, not most states. And so that's where it comes in. And so now somebody comes to you and they thought they had prepared, their parent had prepared with a will and they go through probate. So, you know, let's think of I think the most common cases, you know, mom and dad pass and leave a house, maybe some modest assets and of course personal property and things like that. What's in Florida, what's a common timeline for them from the start of the process? They meet with you and say yes, they sign the papers until they can sell the property and then until they can distribute the prof the beneficial interest to the proper heirs. Okay? So, timelines, I can't tell you a match, right? Because I can't predict the future. I can give you some minimums because that's pretty much the most I can guarantee. And also the timeline depends on what type of real estate we're talking about. Florida is very unique in that we have the homestead protection and property that is homestead is actually exempt. So it's has its own rules and timelines versus let's say investment property. Here in Florida, we deal with a lot of people who are snowbirds. They might have property in other states. They may actually be a resident of another state and happen to own real estate here. So, it's different processes and timelines depending on what type of real estate

3:41 We're talking about. We have two types of probate in Florida. When you're dealing with real estate, we have summary administration, which is your faster, more expedited process. For a summary to apply, you need to have a situation where the individual passed away more than two years ago or the estate value. So, the value of the assets that are going to be in this probate estate here in Florida are below $75,000. If you check both boxes, then you can file a summary. A summary is a shorter process and you're looking at if we're within two years because we still can't file it within two years of death, but it's has to be value below 75,000. So, if you're within two years and the individual is over 55 or over, minimum 30 days from the date that I have all documents that are needed in order to move forward because that's the other thing. I might have just a petition, but if I don't have everything, the timelines don't even get started. Right. Right. And so, that is your summary. Formal hold formal. So, summary is most commonly going to be, at least in my experience, a mom and dad pass and they discover they have a bank account or they have a savings account or a some sort of plan or something that has some value, not a IRA typically because those are usually defined, not usually securities. We talking about like a bank account or could be a personal asset, you know, a car or truck that's worth enough to get in trouble on with attorneys, but not more $75,000. Is that kind of the typical case there? Yes. But what often happens here is a lot of times you have a situation where there's also real estate and we're four years out and for some reason the family never opened probate. So in that instance, even though the value of the real estate is more than likely over 75,000, we still qualify for a summary because it's over two years since the date of death.

5:40 Uhhuh. Okay. So that's good to know. And Okay. So over two years and their primary residence. No, it's just over two years. There's nothing beyond over two years and or $75,000. So if we're within two years, then we have to also meet that $75,000, right? And but if we're outside of the two years, it's just two years. And the reason why two years is really important in Florida, that is our statute of limitations for creditor claims. So once there are no creditor claims, it allows us to move forward because we don't have to publish a notice to creditors. We don't have to worry about creditors popping up because they had two years. And so that's why even if it's over 75,000, you can still file a summary in Florida after it could be multiple pieces of property or things like that over two years. Absolutely. Wow. That's a whole another level because in California we have the same process whether it's you know 30 days or 50 years and it makes so much sense because you're trying the hardest thing about not to creditors is something pops up they never got it's never that they actually owe the money it's always it was more than two years they paid it off but try to get the receipt or clearance from that creditor's heart or the lean release or whatever it might be. Wow. And so it's really kind of the opposite. That's fascinating to know. So over two years it's an expedited process in Florida.

7:04 Great news. Now, let's talk about the formal probate. Okay, so formal is everything else, right? Anytime you're going to need a personal representative. So, you might have situations where for this particular case, maybe there is a bank account and that particular bank will only work with a personal representative. You might have a creditor situation if you have creditors and you need to negotiate. You have to have a personal representative appointed and the only way in Florida to have that is through a formal administration. And then of course if you don't qualify for a summary, maybe it's less than two years, it's over the 75, you don't have a choice. You're going to be in formal. Formal is going to be going to take a little bit longer. Our creditor period is 90 days. The 90 days does not start running until the publication. That notice to creditors has to be published. So it starts running on the first date of publication. We cannot publish until we have a personal representative appointed. So yes, so that's where you're going to have some question about when the 90day starts running because are we going to have a situation where I maybe have to serve all of the potential heirs? If I have to serve them, we have to wait for them to receive the service and then we have to wait 25 days before I can even ask the judge to appoint that person because all of those heirs have the opportunity to object. They have the right to object within that 25 days. So that's why we don't know. And then if everyone's going to consent, so we have happy family members, everyone's in agreement. Yes, we want you to be the personal representative. I actually will draft those consents and those get sent out. Once I receive them, I file them with the court. If everyone has consented, that also will expedite the process of getting that personal representative appointed. Now, when you say service, does that include sending certified mail and you have a third party verify? So, they're

9:07 Considered having got service when you mail out or do they actually need to be served as a subpoena? So, we primarily do here in Florida probate, it's primarily going to be certified mail of return receipt requested. So that receipt is our golden ticket that shows that this person has been served. Now unfortunately, you know, it's oftentimes where individuals are not home when the mailman comes and so they leave the notice and you don't go pick it up. So I might have to resort to other methods of service, but we are permitted to serve by certified mail as long as we do it with return receipt requested and I have to file that proof of service with the court, which is the back in the day it was the green card. Now, we actually do it electronically, but it's the same idea. It just shows who signed for it at that address. And if and if it's not signed for, you can't move forward until you find some other way to get to them. That's a different California. You can because this happens all the time in California where they mail the service and the attorney, you know, legitimately has their administrator, whoever, you know, verify I put in the mail on this date and they wait a certain amount of time. But I've had plenty of customers come and say, I never received it. And we find out they live somewhere else. They don't live in that house. Somebody else gets the mail besides them. But most commonly they don't have the right address like the person moved or didn't happen last right and in California you can move forward without that but they we also now we also do a publication of intent to probate in California. Do you do that as you don't do that in Florida?

10:31 No I don't even know what that is. What we do have is something called a notice of administration. So once the individual is appointed as the personal representative, we have to file that notice and we actually serve that notice on everyone. In certain situations, you might have to publish it if you are struggling to find someone. There are workarounds because let's say you really can't find this person, you would have to we hire a private investigator. They provide us with an affidavit of due diligence. Then we ask the court to allow us to file to serve them by a notice. Of action and that would be publish a publishing as well. So if we go that route then there might be more steps. There are ways to get around serving them but we absolutely have to perform every opportunity. We have to try and find them and we have to try and serve them. We don't just get to skip over it. Unfortunately, one of the challenges I have, again, I'm in California, but I've seen this in other states as well, is that there's an heir who is entitled to file to be the, you know, as a petitioner, to be the administrator, executive of the will, but maybe they're not really competent. And I don't mean not mentally competent. I just mean they work, you know, long hours and they're busy and they their job is like they're more physical in their work. So, they're not really they don't have computers. They don't do e-signing. And just really it seems that certain people just don't have the administrative acumen and so increasingly I see attorneys turning to either some of their staff or a third party to say we're going to appoint this person as your administrator as a professional to step in and do that work for you. Of course, it costs money, but it also gets the process moving. Is that something that you use or is that something that I don't do that? The person who retains me is going to be the personal representative and we have a conversation about what the expectations are. Now remember just because you are the person with priority or you are the person who is named in the will as the

12:34 Nominated personal representative does not mean you are required to serve. So oftentimes that person that you are describing they don't want to serve. I get that quite often where they're just too busy or they're maybe they know their limitations and so there is an there is a way for me I just prepare something called a declination to serve and they would sign that and then we just go to the next person either on the will if there was a backup person or if we're dealing with an intestate which means there is no will then we see who's next in priority and most of the time the per the family has already discussed who is going to be the point person and that's usually the person that calls me in the first place anyway. So I haven't really dealt with that situation. What's the typical cost to get started? Somebody comes to you, they're going to be an heir. There's a let's say a house or two, a state of maybe, let's say, $800,000 or so, but not a lot of detail. Maybe there's only a couple errors, nothing outrageous. What's the cost in terms of filing fees and publication fees before the house sells and there's money generated? What kind of upfront expenses are there? And then do those all have to come from the petitioner? So, every attorney charges differently, right? And they set their systems up differently. The Florida statute does have what's called a reasonable compensation statute, which is approximately, it's actually says about 3% of the value of the estate. I personally for a formal administration, I charge 3%. However, there is a minimum for the attorney fee of $5,000 that has to be paid upfront. And I also charge the anticipated cost because I know what the filing fee is going to be. Depending on what type of probate we're opening, it's either 251, 351, or 406.

14:21 If we're doing summary, and the summary depends on the value as well. There's two different levels. So, that's 251 or 351. And then the formal. And I know if it's formal, we're publishing. I can gauge because it depends on each county. They all have different costs for publication. Your publication ranges. I've had I have one county that's about I want to say $89. I have one county that's $299. And so it really depends on what county we're talking about. But I charge if it's so if it's a formal you're looking at 5,800 to get started. And then if it's a summary, you're looking at about it's about 4,300 to get started. And that's going to get and with the summary, it's really that's it's not even get started. That's your fee unless we have to convert to a formal. Sometimes the family comes to me and they say there are no creditors. We're below 75,000. We open a summary and then there's a creditor. And so we have to convert over to formal unless the family is going to make that payment and pay the debt out of their own pocket. So in that situ we do convert over. Now for many families, you know, I heard a statistic that less than half Americans have $1,000 in the bank. U coming up with 5800 can be out of reach. I know there are services that I use that either advance the heir based on their beneficial interest or even cheaper maybe lends money to an administrator to cover fees of the administration of a probate. Do you work with any kind of those kind of companies? I do not. So the last time I looked at those I personally am not comfortable with them.

16:04 I don't like their interest rates. I don't like their terms and so I don't offer that as any sort of thing that I'm related to with my clients because at the end of the day anything that my clients are involved with if I am recommending it I need to be comfortable with it and I need to know that this is you know the best thing for them. But what happens is in certain situations so let's say there's real estate and the family knows that they want to sell it. I have worked out arrangements with them where we pay something a little bit less and then I will get the rest at closing, but it requires everyone to agree and it's on a case by case situation. As an attorney in California, you can get deposits for fees. Now, the costs are different. Costs you get, you can use them right away. But in California, as an attorney, you can collect fees, but you have to put them into your trust account. You can't put them in your operating account until you close. Is that the same in Florida or are you able to compare? No. So in Florida, our fees can be non-refundable. It depends on what's in our agreement, our engagement. Right. So that 5,000 if it's a formal administration. I personally, and this is my choice. I don't know how other attorneys do it. I will not transfer out of my trust until I have actually filed that petition because the client can change their mind. They can decide, you know, hey, I want to go with a different attorney, which is perfectly fine. I will at that point refund them in full because I haven't drafted the documents. I haven't filed them. So, I wait and I don't transfer it out of trust until the initial petition has been filed. But the actual engagement letter says that it's due upon it's due in full upon receipt and it's I'm sorry, earned upon receipt and it's non-refundable. But, you know, situation life happens to all of us, right? And so, you have to be flexible. That's a big difference business-wise because like I said in California, you know, probate is not going to close on average for at least two years. And so you're not able to put that money into your business account. You're working for free until you get paid two years on average. And there's some cases that go for five years. And so attorneys, as a

18:07 Result, have to either vet the case more carefully or find some other way to make the cash work. But and I can see pluses and minuses. I can see attorneys who pocket the money and don't diligently finish the job. I see it happening even in California. And I think, well, why? You're, you know, you're not going to get paid. And I also see why you'd want to get paid in advance and it gives you the resources as a businesswoman in your case to do your job, right? If you don't have the cash, how do you pay for a parallegal? How do you pay for filing fees? How do you pay for third party services that expedite the process? You're not going to if you're on the chief. So, I see the arguments for both. It's interesting to see the difference. Now, in California, the, executive administrator, depending on, also can charge fees. And it turns out to be up to the same statuto limit as attorneys. Is that true in Florida as well? Right. So compensation for the personal representative, it's about 3% as well. And that gets paid later on because we need to receive all the assets, inventory it, and then we're able to know what that 3% realistically is. And of course, they're also reimbured for expenses. So anything that they have to come out of pocket with during the probate process, they are reimbursed for that as well. Got it. Including the attorney's fees. Including the attorney's fees. Interesting.

19:24 Interesting. Okay. So, most of my listeners are good a good sizable majority if not more are real estate agents and or attorneys involved are very interested in the real estate side because that's how you at the end of the day how you get paid. Like you said, you look at the estate, you're not going to get paid unless there's money and typically the only money is the real estate. So, talk about the real estate process in Florida. In California, we have really two processes. 90% of the time it's a couple extra forms. If nobody objects, it kind of looks like a regular transaction. But for if there's contests, objectors, litigation, we have a court confirmation process. That's about 10% maybe of the cases that go that way. It's a whole different process. What's it like in Florida? So, it dep like I said before, it depends on what type of property we're talking about. So with the homestead, that is technically not a part of the probate estate. According to Florida statute, when someone passes away, the homestead transfers automatically to the legal heirs or beneficiaries. The thing is, we need probate in order to determine who those individuals are. And so we have what's called an order determining homestead status that gets entered. So once all the credit once the creditor period expires we and assuming that I've served everyone or received consents I can send that proposed order to the judge. Once that order gets entered those individuals are the owners of the property. They can all go ahead and they can find a an agent. They can list the property and they can sell it because they are the owners. That's a standard transaction. It's no longer a probate matter. What normally happens realistically is the family comes to me, the homestead property, maybe there are taxes that are due, we've got maybe a mortgage that needs to be paid, and most people are not able to pay someone else's mortgage, right? They don't just happen to have that money sitting around. And so, naturally, they want to sell that property within the 90-day creditor period. In most counties, you can do it. It's just going to require some extra steps. So the main thing is

21:30 We have to tell the court obviously we're going to file a petition for authorization to sell. We're attaching a copy of the contract. In order to do that, we need to have the consent of everyone who is going to be the legal heir because they are not closing without those individuals signing the deed. So before we even get to filing that petition, everyone needs to be in agreement that we're selling this property and that this is our real our listing agent and we agree with this purchase price on we have this contract. We've all signed the contract. Once that's done, we filed a petition with the court. And the key with that petition is because of the 90-day period that we're still within and because all creditors have the right to object to this property being treated as the homestead property. So what we say to the court and what the courts most of them are happy with it. We're going to have the sale. We're proposing to have the sale and the proceeds are going to sit in a restricted estate bank account until there's a further order of the court. And that further order is going to be the order determining homestead status because that order tells us who the proceeds can go to and it tells us that property is in fact that individual's homestead property. The reason why it's really important to determine whether it's homestead or not, it deals with creditors. If your property is the homestead, then the only creditors that can look to that property for payment are maybe if there's a mortgage against the property, obviously the government with their taxes, they're never going to be exempt. And mechanics leans. So, let's say you had your roof repaired and you didn't pay them and they record a lean. That's it. So, if you die and you owe Bank of America maybe $10,000 on a credit card, if that is the homestead, Bank of America is not going to be able to force you to sell that homestead in order to pay the $10,000 bill. So, that's why that order is so important because once it's entered, we know, okay, none of these creditor claims that have been filed in

23:33 Probate, with the exception of those three that I mentioned, we don't have to pay them. And so, the funds are going to be released automatically. Well, once the order gets entered, there's some steps I have to do in order to get it released, but the money will be released directly to each individual heir or beneficiary. And a homestead is that any primary residence can be declared as a homestead. Is it automatically by default considered a homestead or I mean, so there are different ways to determine whether something's in their homestead. Number one, it needs to be the address on their death certificate. So it's it has to be their primary residence in Florida in order for you to claim it as your homestead at the time of death. They could be they can pass in the hospital or pass on vacation, but their primary residence at time of death on the verification. And it's very important that you mention that because what happens a lot of times is maybe mom or dad are relocated to, you know, a son or a daughter's house in another state, right? And this happens often. There's nothing wrong with that. They're this is their homestead. If they become, you know, well tomorrow, they're coming home. That's their intent, right? And so, very important for the family members to know this because it happens. I just had it happen two weeks ago with one of my clients. He passed away in New Jersey. He was staying with his daughter. The death certificate must list their primary residence in Florida.

24:54 If that is their primary residence, it has to show that is their primary residence. The location of death is going to be somewhere different. And that's perfectly fine. But if that says if that death certificate says their primary residence is somewhere else, I need it amended because we want to preserve the homestead status here in Florida. It's very important. Okay. So homestead status number one, death has to have that primary residence at time of death. What else? Because in California, we have a homestead, but you actually file like it's like a deed against the property and it's limited to a certain amount based on your single or married. In Florida. It sounds Florida has an unlimited homestead. We don't have a cap on our homestead. So that's why people move to Florida. That's why everyone comes here. That's one reason why we don't have that problem. No state income tax number two. And then I think your governor's talking about eliminating property tax. I'm I can see why that's just going to speed up the whole movement process. That's word on the street. We'll see what happens with that. But most people are in Florida are aware of the fact that the homestead we also have a tax exemption. So most people when I pull it up on the property appraisers website or even the tax collector's website, if I put in that address, I'm going to see if they've been claiming that. So that's also something that shows that this is that individual's homestead. And the homestead exemption for if you're filing it for your taxes, you get a reduction in your tax valuation because they're going to reduce it by $50,000. But most importantly is there's a cap. It's a 3% cap. So even though the property value might go up if we're all in a great year, right, the assessed value can only be increased by the tax collective for tax purposes by 3% each year. And so that's called the save our homes cap.

26:46 And so that's also very important. So that's why a lot of times I know it's the homestead because pretty much everyone knows to file the necessary paperwork. In most counties you can do it online now when you buy your home and that's how we'll know. Okay, that's their homestead that and this of their all their properties. This one's the homestead because that's the one they're claiming the exemption on. So that limitation we have in California is similar to our Prop 13 where the appreciation is limited and then over time like my house you know we've been here for 20 something years and our property taxes are hundreds of dollars. Our neighbor just bought the house for $2 million next door same basic house is paying you know thousands of dollars trying to think probably 20$22,000 a year in property tax for the same house. Now, just to go back though, so if somebody has somebody lives in their primary residence and date of death, I'm sorry, death certificate says that they that was a residence time of death, but they didn't file the property tax portion, is that still homesteaded? They're homestead from Yeah. So, the homestead is your primary residence, period. I mean, why you wouldn't be collecting your benefit, your tax benefit? People do things or don't know and just don't get around to it. But that is separate. That is a benefit you get. You're not required to claim it if you don't want to. That doesn't determine whether it's your homestead.

28:05 But it's really fact-based. It's what does the death certificate say? What does their voter registration say? What address do they have? Do they typically use on their documentation? So, if we really needed if it came to a fight with a creditor, you would have to bring in all the different evidence that shows that this was in fact their primary residence, what's on their tax returns, that sort of thing. And so, these debts, it's no different than whether they're alive or deceased. They the creditors can't attach those things. I guess judgments might be different. Judgments might get filed against the property like a homestead. So, again, unless it is a mechanics lean judgment. Oh, that specific. Okay. Okay, let's recap that. Let's specifically the mortgage mechanics leans or government tax or something. So any credtor even if it goes to judgment and they're anduction council that wow again another reason why I moved to Florida. But also I see you people are older and kind of miss things, forget things. You know I in my case you know my name is surprisingly common. There's two billionaire bro grossers who live with an hour of me who've been a Fortune magazine cover. Not me. They're not you. But I'm but I'm the real Billgross.com FYI. But you know, I get called all the time from creditors because and these guys I'm sure have multiple businesses.

29:23 I get sued. Whatever that's about. And you know, and they and the way computers are, they go, "Well, we have a social security, four digits, your address." All that's true, but I never had an account with a company. So, and I own anything. So, it happens all the time. But if you don't stay on top of it, you're going to get served. You know, I could get served by a company and have a judgment against me. In California, you got to unwind that somehow. In Florida. Sounds like it's not even attachable. So, wow, that's another reason to move to Florida. Okay. So, that's only for the homestead. Now, your other property, you know, if you have other real estate now, that's all subject to whatever judgments you have, it's just the homestead that has that protection. Still, that's a nice that's a nice feature. I think you know this. I used to live in Florida. Florida's like my ex-girlfriend. I'm married. I can't talk about her with my wife overhearing me, but I fantasize all the time about moving back to Florida. So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, and everybody who watches my podcast know I always talk about going to Florida. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 100%. Again, my wife can't hear, so I can talk about it. I can move to Florida if I get divorced. I just can't afford to move to Florida and get divorced. I could do one or the other. I really can't do both. And she won't let me divorce her. So, that's kind of another problem. Okay. So, probate real estate then. Therefore, if it's homesteaded, sounds like it's a fairly straightforward process. Is not homesteaded. There you have creditors and it becomes a court confirmation process. And so that sounds like it's rare. And yet it's going to be more of a cumbersome process, right? What is that? If it's nonh homestead, correct? I give you no you file petition, you file, you have a petition, you have to notice, you have a contract goes to court for approval. And then was it just unless you've done something, you know, wrong, the court's going to approve the case. Do people have a chance to come in and bid on the property? So, we're not selling it through the prop through the court.

31:13 You're under contract. So, and regardless whether it's homestead or non-homestead, you have listed it whether if you're the personal representative, it's listed. So, it's not we're not doing auctions through the court. It's a private sale and that is what we actually put in the petition. This is a private arms length transaction. So, there it's not an auction or anything like that. We're not doing that. But as far as the homestead petition, when we're trying to sell that homestead, I have only had one situation where the court rejected the petition. And the reason the court rejected the petition is because I had initially, this was a situation where I actually represented one of the heirs. I didn't represent the personal representative and I objected to the initial petition because the value didn't make sense and they didn't explain why the value was so different from what everything was showing as you know the value of this property. They didn't attach a CMA, they didn't attach appraisal, they attached nothing as to valuation. And so because I objected naturally, even though we ended up having a consent, the judge ended up denying when they submitted the proposed order, the judge ended up denying it. We ended up we were able to sell it anyway, but it took another step. That is the only time I have ever had a situation where the judge denied it because again I usually when I do it I have everyone's consent and I make sure that I attach a CMA from the listing agent or the broker to my petition. So the judge is going to see that this price is reasonable for this property.

32:57 So there's really no reason and if everyone's consenting, there's no reason for them to object so long as everyone, you know, the creditors, the money is going to be in the bank for the creditors until that order and the homestead is entered. So everyone's protected. Now, I know you don't do probate litigation as such, but when you say you represent an heir, to some degree, there's litigation going on. Maybe it's not contested, maybe it's not, you know, a major conflict, but by definition, it's litigation. Or so that was a different situation that was very unique. So originally what happened was he was my client and we filed the initial petition. Got it. Yeah, that was not your typical case because it did end up being a little bit of a fight, but I was able to work it out because I do have a litigation background. I just choose not to litigate anymore. What happened was we thought he thought there was no will. There was a lot going on and it really in the end it's two brothers that don't communicate with each other and they haven't spoken and so I filed everything. We served the brother with certified mail and he retained an attorney and lo and behold here's the will. But everything was split 50/50 in the will. So it was it was amicable. It was just a matter of they don't speak to each other. So the attorneys had to handle the logistics of, you know, conversations. But what's the conversation like when something to you looks like it's litigation? Like for me, literally just before this phone call, I was talking to the husband of a heir, a brother, sister, and the brother is the executive. He's not doing anything. He's living in the house.

34:35 Classic case. He's not in any hurry. He'll live there forever for free. He's not paying rent. He's not paying expenses. And I'm saying to them, listen, my experience, until you file an actual motion to remove him, he's not going to do anything. Why would it's cheaper to fight? It's actually cheaper for him to litigate than it is to go find another house for him. And I'm having this conversation with them. I'm thinking, they talked to an attorney. Why is attorney not telling them that? Because attorneys make it sound like, oh, just, you know, hire me and I'll oversee the probate. When does that conversation come to you where you say, "I can't represent you because I almost am having this conversation with this client saying, "I can't list your property till I talk to your brother because I don't want to get in the middle of a of a of a problem." What's that conversation like? So, I have a my initial consultation is where I'm able to weed out the we need litigation. During that conversation, people will tell you what's going on. You know, what are the family dynamics? And often times I will be able to re to tell based on the conversation, the things that they're telling me about that relationship. I can have an idea of whether this is a situation where it's just a matter where I have to pick up the phone and speak to the family member because maybe they just don't they can't communicate with each other, right? And so, but I know most of the time, I would say about 95% of the time, I'm able to flag it as litigation either during the consultation or even when they initially call my office because they'll speak with the receptionist and they'll say certain things to the receptionist. And so, I will flag it immediately and say, "Okay, this is contested. I don't handle contested.

36:19 Here's the referral." I have I have attorneys that they love litigating and so I can just send them that way. Yeah. And I find those that love litigating, many of them love to refer out administration because they don't like the administration. They don't have the staff. They don't have the heart for the administration. They're just not interested. And so if you find the right match that becomes a really good symbiotic relationship, right? Right. Well, look, Alisa, at your pay rate, my time with you is coming to an end. I'm just kidding. That was you're very generous to offer your time today to explain things. Obviously we just kind of covered the top topics. We call it probate 101 with you. But in reality, all these things if you're in the middle of a state case require more information. So, if somebody's interested in talking to you more, what's the best way to get in touch with you? So, obviously, they can always call the office to schedule a consultation. The phone number is [phone number]. You can visit my website and that's genesislawpa.com. Genesis law p is in Paul. A is inapp.com. I only practice in Florida, but if you are in another state and you need probate assistance and you need a referral for an attorney, go to my website. You go to the consultation, click on consultation and one of the questions it asks, it asks you have to go to probably the next page, but it'll ask you where if the individual owns property in another state or if they lived in another state that I had to do that because of my social media following. I do get people from all over the country and so I will immediately get an email that tells me what state you need an attorney in and I will provide you with an email with all of their contact information and I just ask that you let them know that I'm the one that sent you to them. And then I provide a lot of free content, free estate planning and probate information on my social media. And my social media handle is little bit of law across all platforms. That's L I L B I T O F L A W little bit of law and free ebooks you also have online I do I do so my

38:25 Website is actually under construction right now but there are two ebooks one is the three documents every adult should have as far as estate planning and then I there you go and then I also have the there is a probate Florida probate basics I believe is the name of the probate one. I will be launching a webinar again. I used to do them. I'm starting it up again. It's I don't know if it's on the website yet, but it's going to be on the second Saturday of every month. And it is titled Wills, Wealth, and Trust. I like it. And there's your IG with 100,000 followers. Wow. Fantastic. Well, look, always appreciate you. Thank you so much for sharing with us today. And you guys have her contact information on the screen as well as down below in the description. Alicia, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you supporting us. You're so very welcome. Thank you for having me again. And for the rest of you, this is Probate Weekly. We get together every week with leaders in the industry, attorneys, vendors, real estate agents. Talk about how to be better and more effective in doing with probate, avoiding probate, being effective you're in it. We continue the conversation on Facebook. We have a Facebook group called Probate Weekly. You can go there and look for referrals, ask questions, as well as you can go to probateweekly.com if you want to get reminders. Put your email address in. You don't have to. If you want to get text reminders occasionally, put your phone number in. Scroll down and we have all the audio formats, Spotify, Apple, and all that stuff. And then past episodes on YouTube if you're interested. I'm at Bill Gross on social media. Thank you for your support. If you like this, like it, subscribe to it.

39:56 If you have suggestions or attorneys we should interview or other topics, put that in the suggestions as well. And as always, make today your best day ever. They