What Is a Death Doula? with Marni Blank

0:00 Here we go. Hey, welcome to the Executorium podcast. I'm your host, Bill Gross. Bill Gross probate on social media. We get together every week with professionals designed to help executors work their way through the problems of dealing with a trust, an estate, a probate, the things that happen after life and you're responsible and realize all of a sudden, wow, there's a lot to do here. And one of the vendors on the Executorium podcast is Marni Blank, Begin with the End. Marni, thank you for joining us today. Thanks for having me, Bill. Marni and special guest Penny. Yes, this is Penny. Penny is always makes an appearance in something I do. Okay, very good. So, begin with the end. It sounds like begin with the end in mind from Stephen Covey. Was that the inspiration or is it just in general the concept of planning something with the end in mind? It really it's both. I mean, when I started to really delve into this work, most people that I talked to really just did not know where to start that it was this big unknown. end of life planning, thinking about what happens after a loss and no one really talks about it. And so, it really was this idea of let's begin with the end. Let's talk about it. Let's get this sort of out of the shadows and we can all feel more comfortable once we sort of start talking about it. Now obviously a good part of your practice is planning before the end i.e. building the barn and keeping the cows in but there's also the cows got out meaning now you have an estate to deal with and we find that that's overwhelming for many executors trustees administrators talk a bit about the services you provide to those people who are now kind of overwhelmed with both the emotional grief and then now the administrative duties of being a trustee or being an executor. Yeah. So, I am an after-loss professional. so, I wear many hats. I'm a lawyer by background. I'm an end of life doula.

1:57 And what I found is is that at the very end of someone's life and then when they pass, the family is is overwhelmed. there are so many decisions that have to come up and to be made and oftentimes there is a decision fatigue and there's just an extreme over o overwhelm because people haven't dealt with this many times before and so what I found was this issue that at the very end you know people sort of get to the point of dying they have the funeral or the memorial and then they're left not knowing what to do after that they're sort of left on their own to figure it out. And so I felt like there was a need to be a compassionate ear for people to understand what their individual circumstance is because everyone has a different situation that comes up after a death and to sort of work through it. So, what I do is I help overwhelmed executors in the family deal with all of the paperwork and logistics that come up after a loss that sort of falls outside of what the probate attorney typically does. but is is real. It's time consuming. And often times families just have no idea where to start with that process. And so I come in we have a conversation about what's going on, what are the assets, what are the liabilities, what do they know, what don't they know, where is their research needed? and we come up with a personalized road map of all of the tasks that need to be done and sort of the order in which they could be done in and I try to take as many of those tasks off their plate as I can. What percentage of your work is the hard skill of technology, administrative procedures, processes, legal knowledge in your case versus the soft skills of just listening and asking questions and paying attention to what's not being said maybe or what's between the lines?

4:00 It's a really good question. I would say maybe 65 35. You know, there are real things that need to be taken care of and done. and depending on the state, there's research, there's different forms, there's different responsibilities on the executor. And so it is it's it's a lot of information gathering. And like you said, there's a there's a lot that when it's unsaid, you can kind of pick up, okay, maybe we need to be, you know, looking down this road that maybe they haven't looked at before. And, you know, maybe we need to be thinking about this. and who else do we need to be bringing into this conversation? Whether it's other members of the family who might have information that we don't have. Maybe it's finding, you know, the advisor, the financial adviser that hasn't been contacted yet. You know, there's so many moving parts and different professionals that can help in this in this situation. And so it's also being able to find the people who are either already part of the process or bringing in professionals who can advise on different aspects. So one of the things that surprises me is the disconnect between what customers expect from the attorney in these areas. Meaning the attorney is going to handle all the legal stuff, but where does that end and the rest of the work begins? And I would say there's there's the soft skills of the emotion and the grief counseling and all that as well as the hard part of the job, not the hard part, the technical administrative part of the job, the other paperwork that somebody has to do, the executor has to do. And it just seems like that that expectation is so poorly set when people take on the job, they find themselves kind of in the middle of it like, "Wow, I did I set up for this? It feels like a whole job." That's where they need somebody who's professional. So describe a little bit when you try to set expectations up front for your clients, how do you explain what that's going to look like?

5:57 You know, it really is case by case on what they need. Some people who are in grief find a lot of meaning, or you know, it's cathartic for them to take on tasks, but maybe they just don't know which tasks they need to do. And so in that sense you know it's more of a coaching role where you know I'm helping them decide on what tasks need to be done when but they want to do them. They find there is some closure in that. and some people, like you said, thought that when they hired an estate attorney or a probate attorney that that person would be doing everything, that they could sit back and wait and then they would, you know, if they were a beneficiary, they would get that or, you know, they would have some paperwork to sign, but it wouldn't necessarily fall on them. And then, you know, the realization ends up being that, oh, wait, no. Unless you want to pay that attorney, you know, $500, $600, $700 an hour to be sitting on the phone with the bank or, you know, transferring accounts. Then that falls on that that executor who and often you know it often is an adult child who you know has a full career of their own who might have you know underage children that they're caring for and they realize that it ends up being a full-time job and you know getting a lot of runaround because they don't know how everything works.

7:22 And so often times we are setting the expectations of okay do you want someone who's sort of you know quarterbacking this you know getting all of the moving pieces together but you are taking the lead or do you want someone who's taking these tasks off you. You know sometimes if there's a lot of liabilities on the estate I'm calling and negotiating credit card debt on behalf of the individual. It really depends on what the situation is and what do they need and what will be most helpful for them so that they can grieve or they can process or they can you know live their life while having the proper support that they deserve. I think even in when there's one child who steps up to handle the administrative burden, they don't think through the soft skills part, the communication, the extra communication. You might say, well, I told them this or send them an email, but that may be sufficient to transfer information. It's not enough to transfer that I care. And I think that's what the breakdown is so often that the most suitable person to handle the estate needs to understand that there's more than just handling the estate. There's really hand people that are also beneficiaries of the state. The personal side of it. That's so true. there, you know, there's so many family dynamics at play. people deal with grief and loss in very different ways.

8:46 And to be able to act, you know, communicate effectively with compassion, but also understanding what's going on with these individual beneficiaries or family members. It's a lot. And sometimes there is a need for either a mediation or, you know, an outside facilitator who's helping have these conversations or helping draft, you know, communication so that everyone's on the same page getting that information just like you're saying, but done in a way that people hear it and understand it, but also have room to ask questions. you know, it can be a very frustrating and long drawn out process. So, how is it being handled with the utmost care for these people who have lost someone? Now, I know I'll put on the screen your contact info. Begin with the end is the firm. Marni Blank is our proprietor and beginwiththeend.co is the website that has some fantastic resources on it. In fact, let me just run there real fast. And I think one of the things that I noticed was now you describe what your company does in detail which is cute picture of you there looking like you're you're ready for somebody to call you. Thanks. But what I found was on the resources page some great free downloads that I think kind of demonstrate your knowledge and expertise in the area.

10:09 Both a download on the important documents and assets you have to collect the 10 legacy project ideas that you have to deal with as well. And then you have an email link for people want to sign up and then you also have to shopping. But for somebody who says, you know, I need some help. I'm not sure is this a customized plan that you call them up and you work out? Is there hourly rate? Is a fly rate? How does somebody move forward if they're interested in finding out more about your service? For after loss, I do hourly packages. So, it's usually 5, 10, 20 hours depending on what the family needs and how extensive the estate is. there I also offer a smaller package. If it's someone like we were talking about who really just needs more of that coaching, who needs more of that guidance, then we'll have an initial conversation where I gather all of the information. I create a customized road map of all of the tasks based on what they are going through. And then we have a follow-up call where they can sort of an ask me anything. So they sort of get started with the process. They see what's working, where may maybe they're getting stuck or maybe they need something else and then we can have that conversation once they start getting the ball rolling on it. So, I recommend you go to the website and like I said, check out the resources and the free quiz and if you're interested in moving forward, you can hit the let's let's chat button that brings up a Calendly link where you can schedule time and talk to Marni about what you need and what your needs are and such.

11:37 And again, this is we focus today on when executors have an estate they're doing with, but also your focus is also on planning beforehand. you get involved in setting things up so we don't have to run off the rails and get them back on the rails. But I try to help people plan ahead of time as well. Yeah. I mean, it once you see what happens when people don't plan and what the extra overwhelm or grief comes up for a family when they really need to, you know, find all of the missing pieces because it wasn't well organized. you really start to you know feel passionate about getting people to plan in advance and really that is both you know your physical documentation and having your wishes in place having that estate plan in place but it's really also that whole digital asset and life piece you know that is a piece that many people are missing and not only is there important information on there but there are memories through photos and videos and other maybe they're not valuable pieces of information, but they're really heartfelt and important to create a legacy. Well, they might be financially valuable, but they might be emotionally very valuable.

12:54 Priceless. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Well, good. Exactly. Well, look, Marni, it's always a pleasure to chat with you. Again, begin with the end, Marni Blank, and she can be found at beginwiththeend.co. If you have more questions, you can hit the let's chat button and get a chance to chat with Marni, which is always fun to do. And maybe you'll catch her when she has Penny or maybe catch her with not if you don't like chatting with a dog. But either way, Marni, thank you so much for spending time with us today. It's really been a pleasure. Thanks, Bill. And for the rest of you, this is the Executorium Podcast. We get together every week and interview professionals that help executors through the process of estates, trusts, probate estates, and such. and you can go on there if you have questions or have refer looking for referrals in different geographic areas. on service. Love to have you go on there to the Executorium podcast. In Facebook, we have a group we continue the conversation. Love to have you there. Again, this is the Executorium is the website that we're talking about. And if you go to Executorium.com, Executorium.com. There's four main tiles. There is the directory of estate providers. There's a directory of government resources, all the different counties and states forms and such you might need as well as articles and learning on how to be more effective with that. and what we did today, if you go browse into your particular county, you will find different vendors that can help you be more effective in your job as well. I'm Bill Gross at Bill Gross Probate. This is Executorium Podcast. Thank you so much. And as always, make today your best day