Title Issues in Reverse Mortgage Transactions, with Kevin Sayles of Lawyers Title

0:01 Hey, it's Bill Gross. Welcome to the Reverse Mortgage Podcast. Welcome back. When I launched this podcast, one of my thesis was that we as an industry should be doing 10 times the reverse mortgages that we are. As a real estate agent, I see the opportunity on purchases with cash that should include reverse mortgage. I have customers who have free and clear houses that should have a line of credit at a minimum, if not also having a reverse mortgage. And I also see state plans that do not even consider the home equity in that. And so but one of the challenges they are complicated. There's more pieces and moving. One of them is inevitably the title. Is it held in the trust? Is it not held in the trust? And also when we go to do the loan, if they're older people, sometimes they've had the property longer and there's title issues. So I'm really excited to have here a guy who a man who's a resource for my business. Really helped me get started in the probate real estate business. And I think more importantly use showed me how to use my education and knowledge as a tool to build my business. I'm hoping you would do the same thing. Please welcome Kevin Sers from Lawyers Title. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us today. No problem. Thank you for having me. I love being here. Now, one thing just again full disclosure before we've talked I did a little rundown your business. You don't focus on refinance business and so maybe unlike some other title reps, you're not as familiar to the mortgage originator world and or reverse mortgage specifically as maybe other title reps are because you really do focus on real estate not for another reason and that's been more consistent business for you and you've built your business as a result of that. Correct. Yeah. And the way the market has gone over the past the market meaning the title for title insurance representatives the way it's gone over the past 10 years or so. But I will say this, I started my career in lending. I worked for a bank, Household Bank, if you remember, Household International. We were nothing other than a sub well, not it wasn't called subprime back then. It was called it was basically hard money. We were a subprime kind of hard money lender with a bank. Consumer finance. Consumer finance lender. Finance. Yes, we were a consumer finance lender with a bank

2:04 Facade. So we were I mean like all of our goals were lending. I had underwriting authority when I was 23 years old. So, I have a very strong lending background, even though, you know, I wouldn't say that I, you know, that my main target is a mortgage loan originator, but I work with mortgage loan originators every single day. Some of my best clients have been clients of mine for 20 plus years. They're mortgage loan originators. So, it's definitely a important part of my business. And relative to this conversation, what's important and why I brought you in is because you were really an expert on title as it relates to probate and title problems related to secession. In fact, I've known you for a while, but I you came to discover that you regularly give continuing education classes to attorneys back pre-COVID when they had those classes in the court. You actually were in the biggest courtroom in probate giving continuing education to attorneys on how to work through problems in title. Cracked. Yes, absolutely. I actually love doing that because the more I can educate people and help them understand how this stuff works, the less problems we can have on our real estate transactions. So, really there's two questions I think every originator who watches this call, whether it be a full-time reverse mortgage originator or one who does some wants to get more into it and is, you know, the first question they want to ask is how do I develop more business? How do I use business generation in this field? And what can you offer us on that? So, let me talk a little bit about my approach and then go and ask you a couple questions. My approach from the beginning was I didn't want to ask people for business. I wanted to show people how I could be val show attorneys how I could be valuable as a Realtor® more so than the average person by knowing things about probate in my case or for reverse mortgage originator title insurance. So, for reverse mortgage region, one of the opportunities to work with estate planners, probate attorneys and Realtors® is really know the title. Let's talk about what are common fallacies or information that you're surprised that either even good originators and or even good Realtors® or even good attorneys

4:07 Don't know about when you find a title problem. What kind of common misconceptions or common problems you see people have? You know, this is absolutely shocking to me, but just a week ago, I was having a conversation and it appeared that the person didn't realize that the leans on the property get paid at the close, I'll say close of escrow, whether that's closing a refinance transaction or closing a sale transaction. It was as though the person thought, "Oh, we have to pay that upfront so that we can close the loan." No, you close it all at the same time. So, for instance, let's look at how this works. You want to do a reverse mortgage. The person has a first mortgage on their property and they have a tax lien. Now, of course, that tax lien may limit their qualification if it's a regular loan, you know, in their debt ratio and all of that, but let's take the underwriting piece out of it and just talk about the leans to pay off on the property. That tax lien just gets paid off when you close the loan, just like the first mortgage, right? And so there could be a myriad of leans. There could be all sort any type of lien you've ever seen on a preliminary title report. Those all just get paid off when they close the reverse mortgage. Now, also though, sometimes those leans have been paid. There's some sort of paperwork issue and a good originator or real estate agent can by reviewing the preliminary report inform the customer ahead time. Hey, there's a lien on here.

5:27 We could pay it close, but do you know about it and can we work on getting it paid off? Now, those are a little more problematic in probate when people's past records are hard to get, but how often do you get involved? It must be an everyday thing for you. There's some lien that shows up. It's 5 years old, 10 years old, 40 years old. Where is it? Who owns the money? How do we get around that? Yeah. And I'm going to start by explaining something. Okay. People are familiar with home inspections. So, you're selling this house. You're going to have a home inspector come. That home inspector goes inside and says either this is done wrong or this faucet is leaking or something. No one ever comes up to that home inspector and goes, "You said the faucet is leaking. It's not really leaking. You know, you're lying. You're trying to make. No one ever does that because the inspector goes in and it's kind of black and white. The faucet is either leaking or it's not leaking, right? With some I'm being a little facicious here, but obviously you get what I'm saying. Yet, we do a preliminary title report and people will look at it and they'll say, "Oh, well, I saw that on there, but I didn't think it was really there or why are you coming up with this?" This is what I want to get. This is the point I want to get to. Everything that shows up on a title report, it took a piece of paper, a document to go down to the counter recorder, be presented, and it had to record at the county recorder. That's how it got there. If it took a piece of paper being taken to the county recorder to put that lien on this property, what do you think it takes to remove it?

6:48 Probably piece of paper. Probably another piece of paper being recorded. Yes. So, every time there's a lien put on the property, there has to be another document to remove it. And look, we're like the messenger. We're like the mailman. I don't punch my mailman in the face because he comes and delivers. I have an IRS lien coming to me. No, he's just delivering the mail. Same thing with us. We didn't put the lien there. We don't want the lien there. We're just showing you this is what's on the record. And so, u but what I've done to build my business and to grow, you know, a guy told me this my first day out in the field. He told me, first second client I ever met, as a matter of fact, he told me, Kevin, if you help people get their deals closed, you'll always have business. And that's what I've always told. So, whoa. Now, that's gold. You have to repeat that because we need to hear these things are multiplying one more time. What' he tell you? Yeah. He told me, "If you help people get their deals closed, you will always have business." That's the truth. Back then, you know, Tyler Russ would bring donuts or bring candy at Halloween. And I never really did that because he taught me something very quickly on my f first day on the job that hey help people close their transactions and I kind of knew how to do that because of my lending background. I knew okay the freedom is just a checklist. Resolve these things on the checklist and you're good to go. And so that's the way I've always approached it. So yes, there's good there could be leans, there could be things that show up on the title and that's where you call your title rep and that's where I roll up my sleeves and it's time to get dirty. Let's get in here and get these things resolved. And as you mentioned, Bill, sometimes there's a substandard lien and that lien's been paid off a long time ago. Sometimes there's a loan from 1960 and that loan was paid off a long time ago. That's absolutely correct. And we have other ways of resolving those. If it's a lien that's more recent or that has not been paid off, then they have to be dealt with a certain way. And sometimes you can bond around a lien, they can put money up, they can pay the way around it. So there's different things that can be done, you know. And I think one of the things that changed when I started the business, I worked for a large lender and we had probably one or two title reps come in our office every day. And there were two groups.

8:46 There were the reps who got by on looks and charm. Or there were the guys who are your best friend with the donuts, the food, sandwiches. They'd buy you a suit if you close a deal with them. And I remember my brother who I started in the business with said, "Look, you can buy your own suits and you're married. There's no reason for you to do anything other than find the best title rep who close your deals and work those deals through." And he also taught me cuz like you, he started host household finance to read the prelim because that's what's between you and getting paid. Why would you leave that in the hands of anybody else? Now, yeah, we had loan processors and funders and all, but I had the prelim day one. Why would I wait weeks down the road till I had the loan opened up or had it in funding? Why would I not want to? And I think most important for those listening, you might say, "Hey, I'm too busy." No. Nobody's too busy to show your customer the value you create or to call their attorney to help them solve a problem if there's a problem in a probate case. So, those are the things I think. Now, let me ask you, I true or not true, your most successful Realtors® and lender customers get involved in the prelim. They look at that and they want to roll up their sleeves or delegate to somebody that they trust to resolve these problems.

10:06 Absolutely. And Bill, that must have been a household finance thing because I was taught the same thing by my manager. He said, "You underwrite this thing and send it to the underwriter. All they have to do is check it off." And I applied that skill today in my title. I don't go to the underwriter and say, "Okay, tell me what goes on here." I underwrite it myself because I know what title underwriting does. I underwrite it myself. I point out, "Yep, this is a problem and that's a problem, but here's how we mitigate those problems and I give the solutions and say, can we use the solution that I'm providing to solve the problem?" As a title rep, I don't have underwriting sign up. I can't sign off on a title file, but I tell my clients all the time, who do you want fighting for your transaction? Me who I don't get paid unless the deal closes, right? Or someone else who might be on salary or something like that. You want me fighting it because fighting for it because I don't get paid unless the deal closes. So, I have one responsibility, close the deal, right? And so, I go in, I will underwrite based on what I know our title underwriting is going to look at. And then I'll go in there and I can't hide the problems or cover them up. I'm going to point them out and say, "Yeah, there's this issue, but here's how we can mitigate that issue. Yeah, this isn't quite right, but here's just like a lender. A lender is going to say, "You know what? The debt ratio is 46. I know it's supposed to be 45, but it's 46, but the compensating factor is they got $2 million in the bank." Right.

11:25 Right. And it's the same type of thing I do with the title files. Hey, I know we want X. We won't be able to get X, but we can get Y and Z. And guess what? Y and Z will solve the problem for us. You know, I had a estate that had a number of properties recently and you looked at him at one point where the customer the cedent had a title rep he worked with who was a close personal friend and so the client said you know let's try to give it to this friend and he should know the files a and b you know good favor for the deedent and reputation and all that and that's how company couldn't perform and so in this case the client had another tile company, not you, they wanted me to take it to, which I did, who agreed to close it. The first tunnel rep called me one day and found out he had lost the business and had a conference call like five of his people, his underwriter, his account manager, and he's like, "How come we didn't do this?" And I explained to him what the issue was and how I worked with it to solve the problem. And he says, "Well, they meaning the company that insured it, I'll give them a shout out actually was Steuart Title. They're making a mistake. They shouldn't insure that." I said, "Well, hold on a sec. You don't understand. I don't care if they should or shouldn't. I care too. My job is to get the sale done from my client. I'm not representing the tile company. I represent the buyer. I represent the seller. And if we can get tile insurance, that's all that's my job. And I think that's the difference between learning the stuff and using it as a weapon versus being at a at a victim of that. So again, going through title reports, I think is an opportunity for all originators and particularly reverse mortgage originators to learn, you know, is the property held in a trust or not?

13:00 Like the first thing you should do, notice that it was not the first phone call should be the customer. Say, "Hey, something's going on here." And if you're going to make 10, $20,000 on a mortgage, why would you not pay for them to get a basic estate plan for a,000 bucks, a basic one, take it out of trust? Now, it's insured in title in the trust. You can always restate the trust later, but you can't you otherwise you deed it in the trust. That just creates other potential problems. So, to me, it's such an important part. So talk about what are one or two things that an originator should do that creates for them knowledge that makes them more valuable to their attorneys or their clients. So one obviously is re review the title report. What else would be something you'd recommend somebody to do to learn how to be more effective as a as a professional? I would say understand how the other pieces of the puzzle come together. How the other cogs in the wheel. That's a better definition because if you if you are dealing with reverse mortgages, you have to at least have a well, in my opinion, you should have at least a basic understanding of some of the estate planning tools that people use. You should have at least a basic understanding of how Prop 19 affects things. You should have a basic understanding with your client of what their plans are long term and even after their death. Why? Because these things it all comes into the same picture. It's all part of the same picture. If for example, if you know, hold on a second.

14:28 You just dropped some gold there. So hold on. I'm going to make you stop for a second. Go back. He just named three or four things. If you're an originator and you say, "Well, I don't know what to do to market myself. I'm buying leads from this company." Gh. He just gave you three or four things that if you learn a little bit about and share with your customers, Prop 19, estate planning basic essentials, how the process works. If you learn a little bit and then post about that to your social media, you send an email, you do a video, maybe do a podcast like this on those topics, that's educating your clients, positioning you as an expert. He just gave you three or four piece of gold like that. I'm sorry, Kevin, to interrupt, but you're just you're just killing me with all this good stuff. No, bro. And you know, I mean, obviously, you have to walk that fine line. Make sure you're not giving advice. Tell them to talk to their own advisors. Refer them to attorneys and tax professionals. But if you don't understand how their property taxes could change with what they do, if you don't understand how they could create by doing this deed, they could create a capital gain problem for their heirs. If you don't understand how some of these pieces fit together, you can't point out good information to them or direct them with the questions to ask when they talk with their tax person or their attorney. And so understanding how the other pieces of the puzzle fit in are very important. Very important. You know, I'll give you an example, Bill. You talked about reverse mortgage purchases when we first got on this call for the fires. So, many people lost their homes in the Palisades fire and in the in the Eden fire, much more than a lot of the other wildfires we have here in California, right? And here's an interesting piece and I'm not going to talk about this isn't a fire workshop, but the I'm speak I'm thinking particularly of a friend of ours, 83 years old. He's received numerous checks already which pretty much cover the balance of the home. He said himself, "Why would I?" He's 83. "Why would I rebuild?" This these were his words, not mine. "If I rebuild, by the time the construction is done, I'll be dead." Now, he's very healthy. He seems pretty good. He probably won't be dead. But his point is, I'm 83. I don't want to go

16:30 Through all of that building. Okay? So, he's received several checks. He has the money. He has the land. He wants to make sure his family keeps the property. A reverse mortgage p purchase is a great opportunity for you. He can take, if you look at 50% LTV, I'm just going to use this. I'm just gonna throw it out. He can take half of the money that he has, put that towards a reverse mortgage purchase. And if he doesn't want his balance to grow, he can make payments on that reverse mortgage purchase. He has money that comes in every month so he can afford it. He's paying now several thousand for an apartment because apartments are not cheap nowadays. So, he's paying several thousands toward to for towards an apartment. You can apply that towards the interest and probably be same where same place he is now. But now he owns another property still give that property in Altadena to his kids. But now he's acquired another piece of property probably by the time he passes probably grown his wealth because you may have some appreciation on this one or that property or both. You know, it's something that he may I know for sure in his family situation because his niece is our best friend, me and my wife's best friend. They have not thought about that because they didn't know it existed. So why isn't that reverse mortgage person? Well, hold on. There's another piece of gold. Here's a guy who knows you, but he knows a title rep, but he doesn't know about reverse mortgage. Right. That's where I started off with this thing. Say we should be doing a lot more reverse mortgages because people know about this. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Kevin. I rep.

17:56 But that's the whole point is that here's a person instead of buying leads and trying to find the people that could benefit from this product. If I have a bunch of ice, I'm not going I'm not going to Alaska to try to sell my ice. Let me go over to Las Vegas where it's 105 degrees and people probably want some ice, right? You know, so that's the whole point is this is a phenomenal opportunity for people in the Palisades or in Eden that can take, you know, rather than him going through the headache and pain of two or three years of construction because that's what it's going to be by the time they get permits and all that. Rather than him going through that pain, why not help him get to a place where he's moves into another house that's not maybe even in Altadena still, maybe even in the same neighborhood, but he can get to a different house in a nice neighborhood right away that gives him the peace and everything that he's looking for in a house and yet he can still keep that property that he wants to hold on to and pass it on to his family using a reverse mortgage purchase. Is it just me or do you not see much marketing from originators in general and reverse mortgage originators in particular? Are they like secret agents or what? I think we don't see the right marketing. I think we don't see the right marketing. Now, I do see TV commercials about reverse mortgages stuff. Right. TV commercials, but big companies, not people. Okay. 100% we see that. But how about the individual originators who are doing business and serving customers? That's right. That's right. And is it because I don't qualify for a reverse mortgage? I'm not over 62. Maybe that's why. But you know, nowadays I'm over 62. I don't know that's news to you or not. I don't see any I'm you know, this is a situation where I've been in the business for 30 something 30 years now. Wait, 93. Yeah.

19:50 30 whatever plus years. 32 years. And the business has changed. And many people don't realize the their ability to market for very inexpensive a regular farm package from a title company is there's so much more data now. For decades we couldn't get you information of people's ages, but now there are plenty of you can go you can Google it online and find companies that have demographic data that can get you information so you know their age and everything. So why not host a seminar? Why not host a neighborhood event? Why not host at the senior center in the area or the library in the area information so people can become educated about it? Because or online or online's even better, right? Then they in the comfort of their own home. If you don't know how to do the seminar, why not invite somebody who's an expert like let's say I don't know Kevin Sales to help you do it or maybe someone like Bill Gross. There you go. Well, I'm not to push me or push you. I'm just saying to those originators, let's get going here. Let's get this information out to our C. We'll all do better. If we all get out there and educate people and give them more options. I'm not saying this to promote Kevin. He's got a good business. I like him a lot. I have a good business. I'm doing this promote the concept and then the rising tide will raise all ships.

21:09 And so those you out there saying, "Well, what do I do to get more business?" How about just find something to teach and either you teach it or find somebody to teach it for you for free and work on getting a group of people together. Start online. Start small. Start at a small location. You could build up from there. And Bill, the whole thing about it to me is we're helping people. We're helping people. I had someone a while back tell me that, you know, I don't know why people get reverse mortgages. It's such a bad loan. It's such a bad thing. And I stopped them. I really got a little offended. I stopped him right there and I said, "Listen, you're saying that because of your situation, your family situation." And I told him about my family situation. For my dad, it's the wrong product. For my mom. If I could do anything to get her a reverse mortgage, I would do it right now because she needs a reverse mortgage. It's just like a tool in a toolbox, a screwdriver. No one could say a screwdriver is a bad tool. It's not very good for painting your house and it's not very good for hammering nails in, but if you need to screw a screw in, a screwdriver is the right tool. You've got to use the tool for the right job. You know, I tell people the reason I started this podcast was I've been fantasizing about moving to Florida for quite a while and I used to live in Florida. I was married to Florida and but we're not going to move cuz I have grandkids nearby and we're not going unless I get divorced. I can't afford to get divorced and move. So, it can happen. If I was to buy a house in Florida for cash, I could probably afford about $500,000 without selling our house without, you know, liquidating investments or whatever. That's about how much cash I could put my hands on.

22:36 But then I learned, well, hold it. With a reverse mortgage, I could get a $300,000 reverse mortgage. I could buy an $800,000 house. Oh, and by the way, yeah, there's equity. There's a cost of that loan, but the $800,000 house is appreciating, not just a $500,000 house is appreciating. So, it's just it occurred to me if I don't know about this, and this was before I launched the podcast. How many of the customers don't know? And when I ask people, nobody knows. They all think of reverse mortgage as like a hard money loan of last resort to an elderly person who's like eating a dog food out of a can and has no money at all. Well, that may be the right tool for that person. I don't know. But there's a lot of cases you own a house free and clear, protect your equity. You think of moving a few years, get some of the equity started ahead of time to buy the next house. There's a lot of reasons why and people just don't know enough about it. So, let's kind of move the track a little bit from the technical title and that to and I know I'm running up against time here a little bit, so we'll just take a few minutes. Talk about the business side. You're one of the more successful people in our industry. You have been for a long time. You also work with some of the best real estate agents and some of the best lenders in the business. What are one or two of the most consistent practices of the best business people that you see that either you emulate or you wish to see other people struggle they would emulate to get more success? Wow. And I'm gonna start ju just I'm just gonna talk about myself and what I did. Sure. I made it an all day every day thing to be prospecting and constantly trying to get I'm a salesperson. My job is to get transactions. And so just like when I worked at the bank, there was a process and a procedure when we got to the bank, right? We had to get the bank. We had to turn the computers on. We had to open the vault. We had to be bring our cash drawers out. There's all these series of things that we had to do to be ready for customers to come in. I applied that to my business so that when I started my day at 8:00, there was a process and a procedure and things that I had to do. I made sure I left my home by 7:30 a.m.

24:31 That way, I was in my territory by 8:30. I knew that I could call on the escrows at 8:30. I didn't start calling on the real estate offices until about 9:30 because or 9 or 9:30 because that's when they started back then. That's when they started coming in their office. You know, there was a process and a series of things. I was systematic about how I was going to go after business. And so I think everyone needs to do the same thing. And I saw the people that weren't successful doing the opposite. I saw real estate agents that would come in, they come in around 9:30, 1010. And guess what? They didn't come in hit the ground running. They came in around 9:30, 10. They're making their oatmeal. They're getting their coffee. They're talking and laughing. They sit down to start their prospecting around 11:30. Uhoh, it's 12:00. Time to go to lunch. Now they have a 2-hour lunch. And at the end of the day, you look at how much time did they spend on obtain obtaining business. Almost none. And that would be the person that says it's so hard. They don't have any business. It's really dead out here. Right. But I noticed the ones that were diligent about it. And some of them were part-time, Bill. Some of them were only in the office for two hours. And you could not interrupt them for the two hours. Their door was closed. They were making their calls. They were doing their postcards, whatever. And so anyway, so I just say the same thing I applied, the same thing I saw people doing to be successful is apply that. Manage your prospecting so that you're always getting more business. Make sure you're always out going after clients, doing those things like me. Make sure I'm always doing things like this webinar to attract other people that I'm always daily calling clients, driving to clients offices to see them, doing presentations so that I so that I attract more business. And it's the same thing that everyone has to do. You have to be consistent. We all know that once you have a loan, you have to make sure that loan gets through the process. But if you spend all your time on working that loan through the process, guess what?

26:22 When that loan closes, you have no business in your pipeline. Right. Right. Good words, man. That's And you live that. You know, I've seen that and I feel the same way myself. I always amazed me when I go to the office. I'll never forget I joined the office with Keller Williams and Westwood about 10 years ago and I you know before I joined there I met with the manager was on office meeting day you know excitement all kinds of people there and I joined the company sign the paperwork whatever I came back the next morning and I got there about 8 or 8 10 or something because I always I wouldn't be ready to hit the ground at 9:00 so I get in about 8 get a cup of coffee check emails and I remember I talked to my wife saying honey there's nobody here I think I got scammed there's nobody there till like 11:00. There's no in the office. Now, it's not that's all real estate office. It's not just that one office, but it just it's just such a true a truism that so few people put the effort in. But they'll tell you how hard the business is. I'll tell you, look, I work hard every day. I also love what I do. And my business has been great. And I think that's those are related, right? When you when you put the effort in and enjoy what you're doing along the way, you get the results. And you've been a testament to that. So, okay. So, lastly, let's talk about because we need to wrap up. You've been very generous with your time. I appreciate it. And I don't want to go over you've been very generous with your time. Let's talk about your book and how you can help people learn more and particularly in the probate space. You have a book, Probate Real Estate Sales 101.

27:46 Now, they misspelled the name there. It should be S-A-Y-L-E-S I think. Talk a bit about your book and how that helps people. Maybe an originator could give this for a real estate agent or an attorney want to do business with. Talk a little bit about the book. Yeah, you know, that's actually a good point. I never thought about that, but you just brought up a good point. If an originator is creating those relationships with agents that are dealing with probate situations, the book was written primarily to teach an agent how to an agent or an investor how to take a property from beginning realizing that I need a probate to the end to closing. So, you know, again, we talked earlier about knowing more about all the cogs in the in the operation and the book could be a way that an agent, I'm sorry, a mortgage loan originator learns more about that process and then you can give it to an agent who then learns more about the process afterwards because if you know there's so many myths out there people I've heard people say that they believe that when you have a reverse mortgage that the bank owns the home. Not true. They believe that when grandma dies, the bank gets the property. Not true. And not only do they believe that, I've seen the family, you know, we people have brought scenarios to me. We're looking at it. The family is doing nothing with the property after the death because they think the bank already owns it. And it's like, no, the property is in your grandma's name still. You need to do anyway. So the book can help people understand what happens, you know, when they get this reverse mortgage. Re the goal of a reverse mortgage is to keep the loan till they die. So when they die, this is what's next, right? If it's a probate, if they're not doing estate planning. So I think it could be a good way to help them understand more about all the cogs in the in this operation so that they can be more beneficial to their clients. I think if you want to get business do business with attorneys either who do probate and or do estate planning for reverse mortgages, for example, one way to help is to be the expert. Another is to introduce them to an expert. Kevin's one of the experts in the field. I find many attorneys know who you are. I see your

29:50 Name in the chat box regularly here in LA County. And so again, I think it's one of those things where an originator can use that as a way to help themselves in the door by presenting themselves as I know an expert and that's why we give a good service. Kevin, I really appreciate you being on. For people who want more Kevin sales or life lawyers title, you can meet you can get Kevin. His phone number [phone number]. His email is kevin sales s a y ls atlt t I fortitle insurance company.com. Kevin as always thank you so very much what you bring to the industry and thank you for your time on our podcast today. Thanks a lot. I appreciate you having me here and for you. This is the Reverse Mortgage Podcast. We get together every week and we talk to more normally originators but also executives and vendors who support the business. Hopefully today we gave you some tools to help you build your business. I'm Bill Gross Reverse Mortgage Podcast. You can continue the conversation on our Facebook group, The Verse Mortgage Podcast there. Otherwise, new episode every week. If you like this, please like it, subscribe. If you have suggestions for other topics, other guests, feel free to reach out to me and or put it in the comment section. As always, make today your best day ever. Thanks so much. When life brings unexpected changes, managing inherited property shouldn't add to your stress. Magnum Properties specializes in probate and trust real estate management. We handle the complexities while you focus on what matters most. From property maintenance to tenant relations, from legal compliance to maximizing value, we're your trusted partner through every step.

31:25 Magnum Properties, Inc., turning property challenges into peace of mind. Call us today at [phone number] or visit magnumprops.com. America is a maritime nation. Our freedom and security depend on strong sea services. The Beverly Hills Council of the Navy League stands with our Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and Merchant Marine through community support, education, and advocacy. For over 120 years, Americans of all walks of life have heeded our call. No prior military services required to join our mission. The Beverly Hills Council of the Navy League of the United States. Help us support those who serve at sea. Visit navyleague.org.