Texas Probate and Estate Planning, with Attorney Taylor Willingham

0:01 Welcome to Probate Weekly. I'm Bill Gross, your host at Bill Gross Probate on social media. Really excited today to have, you know, a guy who, as an attorney, has handled, I think, over 2,000 probates, you told me, from the state from the great state of Texas, Taylor Willingham. Taylor, thank you so much for joining us today. Well, thank you for having me on. And I know I've come to meet you through the Scrivener Service, and they've used you as one of their referred partners. So, let's talk about probate. Is that the focus of your of your practice? Is that part of it? Tell me where that fits into your business. Yeah, so I do estate hunting probate. And I own a title company, too. So, I do kind of that area of law. I used to do all of our probates. Now, I handle a very few amount, but we have other attorneys in the office that handle most of them. I do more of the elder law estate planning practice right now. But like earlier this morning, I was doing a probate this morning. So, I get I get into them every once in a while. And estate planning, I think of that as avoiding probate. And probate is your estate plan didn't do what you wanted to do or you didn't take the time to get your estate plan done. So, they're obviously just two sides of the same coin. Yes. Yeah. So, it's it all flows together in one thing. How did you end up in this area? Obviously, pretty specialized area. You have some you have big practice, so you have some big pieces of it, but how did you end up in this specialty?

1:23 Well, in law school, I got there and, one of the things that kind of shocked me about law school was it seemed like all my professors were very unhappy people. So, it was kind of a switch for me because in undergrad, my professors seemed like they enjoyed their jobs. And I got to law school and it didn't seem that they were very happy except for I got my one professor that did estates. He was the happiest guy I probably ever met in my life up to that point and I thought well whatever he did in his practice and he was an estate planning probate attorney. I want to do that and like because it, you know, generally led to this idea that, oh, you could be happy and enjoy what you do. And so, he's the one that inspired me to go that direction. And then, I met an attorney in town that I was working at that was an estate planning, probate, and a financial planning attorney. And he had me go get my masters in personal finance and work for him for three about two and a half years while I was in law school. So I, you know, I agree with you in that I also was my father's an attorney. I was got bred to be an attorney. I was on the debate team in high school and college to prepare. I applied to law school, got accepted law schools, including UT, by the way, and decided not to go because everybody who I met who was an attorney was miserable. I mean, like almost suicidal miserable. Yeah. I didn't meet that one guy that was happy like you did. But as a real estate agent, same process in that the business has been it's very hard to distinguish yourself and customers don't necessarily appreciate the service. But when I got into probate and became an expert, all of a sudden attorneys showed me more respect and appreciation. My customers for sure did.

3:06 What do you think it is about the practice in probate specifically or estate planning again related? What do you think it is about that you know that you enjoy but also leads to a sense of purpose for other people as well? So, in probate, the enjoyable part of doing it is people are always getting something where every other type of litigation, your client's losing. Like, you can be the best attorney in the world, but they're still going to lose out on the fact that they have to pay you fees. So, in that area, it's one of the places that at the end, people are generally happy. They're grateful for kind of the help that you guide them through and do it. And so, that experience was one of the big parts. And plus it's a it's like an area that really people don't understand because you usually don't interact with it except for maybe once or twice in your life, right? And so and so it's something where you can do a lot of education which is a lot of one of the things I love to do is educate and I'm sure that's a big part of your life when you podcasters are educator. They love to share information and that's part of what I love to do is teach people. So in this business obviously part of any growth of business is doing good job people come back to you. What is it you think what is it you do to educate get the word out make yourself available so people are aware of what you do or what or more importantly how you solve their problem how you make yourself available to that people will reach out to you or your firm. So, in probate, the biggest way people find probate attorneys is Google because most people, you know, they'll ask their friend, "Well, do you know somebody that doesn't?" People usually don't know people that do this type of law. So, they go to Google. And Google ads are of course the king of still generating that business. Another big way that I have I've written five books and so in and people generally will find me through reading a book that I've

5:08 Written in the past. And so that's been one my probate it's kind of the pro probate book estate planning book but I've for 10 years I've been trying to write the book. It's about the history of estate planning and succession laws and different things and so a lot of it comes from that and then I do a lot of seminars to kind of educate people on different things and people will find out in that situation. The last is I own a title company. And of course, as real estate agents, you guys are the ones that generally have to explain to people, hey, you're going to have to go through probate, right? You don't just automatically get this home. We got to go through the process. And so, agents are a big referral source for me. And for those listening, I think what happens is too often, I had this happen to me where a client called me and said, "Hey, we can't close or refinance because there's five siblings and one's passed." When do they find this out? At the very close when the lender says, "Oh, there's one last condition. The title's not clear for this." And that's why as a real estate agent, when we list a property or even before we list, we should immediately review the title report and look for these problems. And if you don't know the questions, contact the title company. They either have staff and or attorneys that will interpret that. And it's so important. And so in Texas, do typically real estate agents, are they able to order? They order tile when they open an escrow. They're under contract. Are they able to when they list a property? How do you encourage Realtors®? What's the best practice?

6:32 Yeah. So, when so I try to explain to agents that you need to understand probate law first because when you the problem that they use because a lot of agents will go and they'll put their preferred title company and they don't understand that in the Texas we have a really it's like it's a disaster right now because we just don't have enough escrow officers. It's a hard business and so they're trying to get people in and trying to get people to do the job, but a lot of these agents are overworked. And they don't look at the file until a few days before closing. Correct. And so when they pull that file up and then they see, oh, there's a dead person, you know, then they have to call everybody and go, well, we can't close in a few days. You guys are going to have to go through probate and figure this out and deal with it. So, I've tried to explain to agents, you need to ask that question upfront and not assume that the title company's going to catch that someone, you know, has passed away. So, if you have elderly individuals that are selling their homes, make sure that you know, you don't have to be too intrusive in people's lives, but get a little bit of the family history like, okay, is this a second marriage that's going on? If it's only, you know, an elderly woman, it you know, did her was she married? Did her husband pass away recently? Those are the things that will kind of clue you to and maybe I need to get immediately look at this. But another good way is exactly what you explained is okay, you get it with the tal, they send back in Texas schedule C. You go through and you find out on there, is there anybody who's passed away on title? We try to do education seminars for real estate agents on how to look that up and understand what these title reports are saying so they can get ahead of it. And this is one of those areas that I think that as a real estate agent, if you want to present yourself as an expert, you need to take that training, right? If you're not, if you're just a real estate agent, want to learn how to do more business, knowing there are such problems and to work with experts is

8:35 Fine. But if you want to present yourself to an attorney or to consumers as a real estate expert in probate, these are the kind of things you have to learn is how do you read the title report? So that I mean I literally have transactions where the escrow officer has looked at the prelim. He didn't know why we changed title companies. I said well cuz 4 months ago when I got the listing I pulled the prelim and the first company wouldn't ensure title and we went to another one and they would and so that's why I didn't do it because I'm a mean guy. I did it because we want to close and that's important to work with people who can finish the process. Yeah, because that's what we as a title company, we sell ourselves to attorneys. That's attorneys are kind of my biggest business because we're we call ourselves an attorney friendly title company. Most people understand that title companies are like the fourth arm of the law. You know, you can you can have the law and then you have a title company says, "Well, we're not going to insure that. We don't care." And so since I own the title company, I can look at it and I can go through the law and still ensure something and say, "Hey, we're going to back this even though the underwriters will not." Because, you know, I have this issue just yesterday with it was a rights of survivorship deed that another attorney in town is trying to deal with. And I had to explain to him, well, in Texas, these cause problems and so the underwriter is probably not going to ensure this. You can try to go through the title company you're using right now, see if they will. If they don't, just move it over and then I will ensure it because I can go back and basically know that no one's going to file suit in this case. So, we don't need to worry about the issue that's being presented.

10:15 And I think you bring up two points. One, which is that just because it's legal doesn't mean it's insurable. And I've had cases where attorneys say to me, "Well, the law doesn't require, for example, a notice of proposed action in California. When we sell property with full authority, we're supposed to notice certain parties." And say, "Well, we don't need it." I say, "Well, that's interesting to know the law, but the truth is the title company will not insure title without it." And so you can be right and not close or we can get the and then the flip side is there's cases where title companies the law is clear and they don't want to and as I say to title companies all the time it's title insurance it's not title guarantee it's t even though they might have name guarantee in the title it's t insurance in that they're supposed to take reasonable mitigated proper researched understandable quantifiable risks because it was 100% guaranteed by law. If the court gives an order for it, every you don't need insurance theoretically and companies love, well, I just want the judge to order that. Well, then why do we have you? What are you insuring? If I need to go to a judge, that costs way more than insurance. And so, I think as a real estate agent, again, in California, we have to learn like where to push, where to shop, and where to where to find other title companies. And this is kind of, you know, we've all met people who are good title reps because they come in our office, they drop off pens or whatever, take us out to lunch, but at the end of the day, tell gives some really good insight into the kind of the details behind the scene. So, you're a title company to attorneys, and I would think that attorneys would really appreciate, for example, I know the thing that I get a lot from attorneys is, you know, how many properties this guy own or can you get me copy of that deed? And I get I get that all the time. And I have an assistant who pulls it right away. And the trainer will say, "Well, you can just give me the resource." I say, "No. I want you to call me. I want you I want you to think of me when you have a problem. I don't want you to go to the title company. I'm glad to do it. I'm thrilled to do it. Makes my day to I would do it all day long." to some level, I imagine you do the same thing that you want to be the resource for Realtors® and or title companies as far

12:18 As deeds and histories and things like that. Yeah. So, exactly. So, like on when agents have problems, you know, I have actually other attorneys in my office that I've hired solely because they assist with real estate matters for agents even though it's kind of like not the practice I necessarily want to be in. And so, we try to be that resource for agents to help them out and different situations, but on the flip side, we get the problem files all the time. That's kind of our niche. So, my escrow officers are really good at what they do because they're constantly seeing the crazy situation that other title companies like, "we don't want this." And so, they send it off to us. Now, just notice, he smiled when he said that. See, a real probate expert or professional loves bragging about how many problems they work with. A fake expert complains about a problem and wants to ease your business. But when you're legitimately in this business as an expert, I'm sure offline you and I could brag about, well, I had one father, I had eight problems. No, I had one I had nine problems. I had one, right? We all go through different we all could tell stories about the squatter with the guns and the rodents and the pests and the dogs and the cats and the eviction and well, but I had all that plus I also had, you know, like cars and trucks and so just notice that I think it's important to notice.

13:39 So, along the way you work with real estate agents. No, I kind of came to you through a different route. I and I work I think Teresa is one of the attorneys in your office and working with her on a on a case. That's kind of what brought me to you. So, I'm a little different, but often times I'm sure you have both real estate agents who want referrals from you. But then you also have Realtors® who bring you business. I imagine they're the ones you want to try to refer business to. What's the best practice for Realtors® to earn the relationship where they can start seeing referrals or seeing business from you rather than just cold calling you, hey, can you send me your deals? What's the best practices you've seen from or have you not seen any of real estate agents who that you have chosen to work with? So, yeah. So, I'll put like for me it's we have we have a core group of real estate agents that consistently send us business and so when we come and when it comes to referring business because we always are looking to refer to real estate agents. That's one of our goals is like okay because I will not I know there's these weird things that attorney especially probate attorneys do. I think it's a violation of your fiduciary duty, but they'll make deals with investors and they send off Yes. Yes. How's that not a violation? In my opinion, it is, but they don't get in trouble for it. So, it's and so it's because the executive when he's selling the property, you're supposed to get the best deal for the property. Well, the only way you're going to know that is by listing the property, right? So sending out to a bunch of investors, well, they're not going to give you they're going to give you the best behind thescenes deal maybe. But you want to get it listed and then that way if it ever comes back against the executive, he doesn't have to worry about it because I listed it. And so, you know, I sold it to the best option that was available. So, if you're a probate attorney and you're listening to this, do not I think you always need to tell your executive, hey, you need to go and list the property. Some of the agents that we use because a lot of the clients that we have go, "Well, I got an offer from this investor, you know, and so and so I'm like, well, okay, if you're the only beneficiary of the property, you can you can go ahead and sell it to, but you have other ones.

15:43 But some of the agents that we have, we'll work with them and go, hey, you know, let me list it for five weeks and then if I can't get anything better than what that investor's offering you, I'll back out of the deal. You don't need to pay me anything." and you can sell to the investor. Yeah. And so we've done that a few times to help out with that scenario of you know they just want the house sold. They don't want to deal with the all the crap that's you know in the house and everything. And so there's understandable situations like that. And then but along those lines, yes, you need to be aware of the fact that as an attorney, you're a fiduciary and the only way that you're going to protect yourself in the long run that the house didn't sell is that you got comps and you got listings out there. So, yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. And I think, you know, there's obviously exceptions. You have those edge case weird properties, weird situations, outlying areas, those kinds of things. But in general, I live in Metro Los Angeles. There's no reason not to put on the market to get the best price almost all the time. Like everything else, there's exceptions. So, what would you say are the best practices of the real estate agents that you work with? You say you have some that refer you business. Obviously, you know, one best practice they refer you the business versus other attorneys. And that probably that probably is a big piece of it. I mean, be honest, it's hard to find good attorneys who both, you know, appreciate your business, do a good job.

17:07 It's not it's a lot easier said than done, FYI. I don't know what it's like in Texas, but in California, that's so simple. Is that the best practice or the other one or two things that you see commonly amongst those best Realtors® that you work with? So, the core ones that we use, and there are some that we use more than others in that core group and the ones that we use the most, I'm going to be flat out honest with you, are the people the agents who are proactive in solving problems. The least thing I want to do is refer you a person and then I'm doing everything for you. Like, right, you know, there's issues because when you do get probate properties, there's going to be a lot of different things that you're going to have to understand. It isn't just a straightforward transaction. You're going to have to handle estate sales. You're going to have to be able to deal with people that are going through difficult times. Often you have multiple heirs. And so, you know, there's two agents that I really like because they will get on the phone and talk to those other they're not scared to go up and call them and say, "Hey, this is what we need to get done." and they're just very good at resolving the issues without it blowing up in everyone's face because part of you know big thing I try to explain to people in a probate situation is the worst thing that can happen here is attorneys get involved because attorneys know in probate they're going to get paid when there's a house that house is going to get sold and their bills are going to be paid And so if your brother or sister goes out and gets an attorney, it's only going to eat at the estate and what you're going to get. And so having someone that I can go to as an agent and be like, can you work with people and resolve issues and get everybody on board and talk to them? It's so important for me because I don't want a client to come to me, it all blows up in

19:12 Their face, and then they're end up paying $100,000 in attorney fees between me and two other attorneys over arguing about ladders or different stupid items that never should be argued about. So, right. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a big opportunity for us as Realtors® in that attorneys are kind of restricted, let's say, from talking to the other parties directly if they have representation. I believe you're obligated to go through the attorney, right? As a Realtor®, I'm not. And so, now it's different. You can't instruct me maybe to talk to the other party if they're represented. I don't know your particular ethics in Texas. I'm sure a little different than California. But here in California, absent specific instruction, I can do whatever I want as far as attorney ethics. I don't have any restrictions. So for me, I can call the other party. I can call the other heir that's causing problem and try to be reasonable and say, "Look, here's where you're headed." And I'm just a Realtor® trying to sell the house for you. And I also represent you. You're part of the estate. I'm not either party's Realtor®. And so I think that's where a proactive agent can get involved properly. Now, I know it's touching. Some attorneys are very controlling by their nature. I think the default is control. So where do you know how do you kind of massage that difference between me doing what you want me to do is proactive and me kind of crossing the line? I'm sure you have a big practice.

20:32 I'm sure you have some very clear lines that you want people to cross. How do you work with agents that just over time they learn that or is there some specific process or instruction that you give people? Yeah. So when I talk to the agent, I make sure that they understand it's like your job is to, you know, sell that house. And it depends on the situation. Like if there's an executive, you know, you work for the executive and what the executive tells you to do. But if we're doing some type of probate where we're transferring the property directly to the beneficiaries, then you need to get everybody to sign off and everybody's and they're all your clients. And so you can solve a problem that I can't if there if there is an attorney involved in the other side. And that is you go and you talk to everybody and get this house sold. Now that might not resolve all the legal issues, but you know, I have I still have issues with like I have a house right now that's three years in and we still haven't sold this house because every time I get a solution, a resolution with the attorneys on getting it done, we get a few days to close. And then one of the kits goes I'm not going to sign and blows it all up again. And so you know we're three oh actually it's more. It's probably get heading close to four and a half years now. And it's incredibly frustrating to deal with that problem and there's no real estate agent involved and they won't agree to one and so we're stuck with this. I have to call the attorney.

21:59 I resolve it you know and then I call the other one and he goes I don't agree with this. And it's just to the point now that nothing's getting done and nobody really cares because really when you add everything up, attorneys are going to be taking we have four and a half years of bills. And so it's like the attorneys are going to take most of the property when it's sold. And so everybody's kind of just sitting like, well, we don't care anymore, right? And so you're just at an impass now of the problem. And then the attorneys don't care because they know they're not making any more money, right? So it's frustrating. I talk to my client probably once a month and to tell them I'm trying to resolve it. You know, we've been to mediation two times. We've been to the court four times with mediated settlement agreements. It just never resolves itself. In LA County, our cases, the first two digits or the last two digits of the year, so like a case now filed, we'll start with 25 and then some code. So you see case I have cases where it's 19 STP or 20 STP. So you it's like it's a constant reminder this case has been around for two years, three years, four years. It is it is I do think that is smart and the and the coding because it just brings right to your mind how long this thing has been around. What a problem it must have been when you see the number. Oh yeah. The worst one I ever had lasted seven years. It was a nightmare case. It just never every time something would happen there would be something crazy blow it all up and it was just one thing after another for seven years. Now one thing I would imagine that you have in Texas are people who have estates with property in other states. They move to Texas from Colorado, California, New York or wherever and there's a probate and then you have property in other states. You subprobate those. How do you handle the legal aspects? Because I know in California that property would have to be probated in California and coordinated into the state in Texas. How do you handle that? Yeah. So, when you people have to understand if you own real estate in more than one state, you have to probate in every state that there's real estate in because the

24:02 Property is it's called the law of situs. The laws of where it's located govern. And so in Texas, if someone passed in California, but there was property, actually, we had this situation a few years ago where a very wealthy lady in California passed away and she owned her family had a lot of mineral rights here in Texas and they did no planning whatsoever. And so we had to probate the estate and we had to go around on each property and resolve the issues. And so, you know, after 5 years of kind of going through everything and putting it all together, they finally got it all resolved. Unfortunately, it's like when you look back, it's like, well, all that could have easily been resolved within, you know, less than a month if the deedent would have just planned it all out and figured it all out when she was alive. Well, that's a great transition to segue. Thank you. Who we've been talking about probate which is really what happens if you don't have a good plan for the most part big miscon the biggest misconception I find in California at least is people think well I have a will therefore I'm I have a plan and the answer is well the will is kind of the game plan the court's going to use but at the end of the day you're still going to go to probate and will does not avoid probate will is probated in California at least again exceptions other states so you're never going to get out probate with a will you really need to have an estate plan that most commonly includes some sort of a trust or other entity.

25:28 So, let's talk a little bit about your practice. Do you handle estate planning, you know, which I call avoiding probate? Do you help people avoid those plans? And what's kind of the common practice or common problem that causes people to come to you to prepare an estate plan? Yeah. So, a lot of people So, one of the issues is people just don't understand what probate is. And probate is it's a word it means to prove. And what we're doing is we're proving valid ownership of property. That's the whole process. And usually when people use probate, they're referring to the legal process of going through a court in order to transfer property. And in every state, there isn't just one probate. You know, in Texas, we have seven different types, but four main ones that we can look through. So, it's hard when you're start talking to people who says, "Oh, I want to avoid probate." and everything. Well, it's like, well, it's very probate is kind of a complicated area of law. And why do we want to avoid this? Well, the most important reason to avoid probate is the time and cost. It's just one thing I try to explain to people a lot of times is people like, well, you know, my executive can deal with that. And it's like, well, if you have to do a pro probating a will by and appointing an executive, if you go through what we call an independent administration in Texas, it still takes six months to a year. And we're not that complicated of an estate a state to do that. So that process I try to explain to my clients is like hey you know you're asking your son or daughter to take about you know usually 100 hours out of their life just to put everything together that you could do in less than five hours. And so it's kind of a responsibility to take upon yourself to make sure all that stuff's set up correctly. Now you can't always avoid probate. There are people that have estates that are just too

27:29 Complicated. Actually, one of my biggest things right now that I'm experiencing are people are wanting to go through probate to get access to digital assets. You know, like a lot of people I had one last year where their daughter passed, but she didn't really have very much assets, but they wanted her Facebook account. And you have to have an executor or an administrator appointed to get access to that because she had posted all of her pictures on there. All of her memories were there and they didn't want to lose that. And so there's some reasons why people are going through probate now because we don't like you know Facebook you actually can go on and set up who would get your Facebook if you pass away. But other situations you can't. So there are sometimes we have to go through probate. We can't avoid the situation, but usually absolutely we want to figure out the easiest way to have it because in Texas it's easy to avoid probate. Now we have the thing called transfer on death deeds. Transfer on debt deed is a deed that you can file in the record and if it's there it automatically upon your passing transfers the home to whoever you've listed. And so before we had to create a trust to avoid probate, but now it's a very simple thing for people who have small estates. We can we can avoid probate without even having to create a trust.

28:59 So as far as preparing the estate plan ahead of time if they need it, a lot of these things are changing over time. You mentioned accessing digital assets for Facebook more as a you know collectible or a memory item but now businesses I don't know about yours but I know like my business there's you know social media accounts that have revenue like I get paid money from YouTube theoretically and it would continue and other assets and so the law didn't really anticipate or you know years ago didn't anticipate this and we said oh we'll just get you the passwords you control it to go in and control somebody's asset that generates revenue. Now, that's a different level than just an administrator trying to access photos or protection. And so, these are things where it requires a state plan to be reviewed and say, "Well, tell me a little bit more about your business. What are you doing with it?" Or maybe now we have a new catchall. Maybe the new template you use includes all the IP that goes along with a company. So let's talk about you know as an estate plan. Somebody coming to you and says well I have maybe substantial assets. I have you know multiple properties. I have a business and we have a property with a business and we have a second home and we have you know IP with my business and we have you know various assets. What's that process look like? Meaning do they do people just come to you cuz they know they need to do it and they've never done it? Or is it something that triggers them? Is it is it only when they think they're going to die? Is it only when they are going to travel around the world? Why can't we get people into your office to make the plans ahead of time? Okay, I'm going to calm down here. Sorry about that. Yeah, it's it start it begins with some kind of trigger event that people usually have whe whether it's traveling.

30:43 That's a big one for people because they think of oh I have little children and or a parent passes away. But let's use one that I'm getting a lot more of are individuals like yourself, Bill, that who have who do have revenue from sources like YouTube or different things that because they built up a huge audience and they're starting to realize this is all tied to my accounts. If I don't deal with this, then I'm going to have big issues. And so in those situations, there really isn't a great way. It's very difficult for even though the an executor would have authority to go and access your accounts, it's still very hard to get it. You know, Apple really doesn't want to give people access to things even when they have authority under the law. So, transferring certain assets into trusts are becoming more important in the digital world. The other big area is in crypto and cryptocurrencies. It I can't tell you actually have an attorney in my office. Her husband passed and they have, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of Bitcoin that are tied up in his wallet, but he never left the password. So, she has no ability to get access to all that money. And I have one client I it was kind of the I kind of heard about Bitcoin before, but it was really my experience with Bitcoin was back in 2016 because their son had invested a ton into it and still to this day, they can't get access to that. To his wallet. And so it's a digital asset that's now probably worth multi-millions of dollars and it's stuck up because there's no system to handle it where now there are ways to be able to plan for that and put it together and to kind of have it.

32:32 The other big thing, it's going to happen in real estate here soon because the move is in the crypto world is to try to what they call tokenize real world assets, right? And so a big push is kind of this idea that we that I mean this would harm my business, but that you can kind of get rid of title companies by tokenizing real property. And title companies no longer have to ensure transactions because you're selling more of a share or token of your home when you sell your home instead of selling the home and verifying things through I mean you still have to use title to make sure people haven't passed away or different things like that. So those issues are going to become more and more problems as things become kind of more complicated in the world of like how we handle it. Currently our you know legal system is so slow at answering the problems and trying to solve them. So people have to really be aware of hey you own assets or your parents own assets or you need to make sure that this is all done because if you don't you can lose a lot of money now because things are tied up in certain things that we just don't have access to in the past. You know, I think the long-term protection for business people like you and me is to always be looking at the edge cases because there's always going to be those edge cases or new things or new problems that pop up. And if you just work on the general stuff, which is easy and we all love to get that and I want more of the easy probates. You know, I love the $2 million probate. Everybody's on board, everybody's happy. I just don't get enough of those. And so I work with the other ones. But I think that as a professional, we have to be working those edge cases to keep the business going to also put us position for the other business. And I think that like all businesses, I remember when I was a kid, there was a great book on the best American companies. And one of the case studies was on McDonald's. And the claim was the reason why McDonald's was so good is they only did certain things.

34:34 They only did hamburgers, cheeseburgers, fries, Cokes, shakes, and whatever, pies or something. And they only did those eight or 10 items. And they did them their way over and over again and made billions. And the problem was over time McDonald's was forced to broaden their menu because the markets change. It's a competitive marketplace and they have whatever and they're successful. And I think attorneys I look at what you do compared to attorneys who work the space like my father was an attorney. He had a partner who did the wills and probate and you know so much of his business was more the cookie cutter over and over again because these cases weren't developed. But now we have more complicated cases and that's where the experts get the business and go under. So I think all of us as Realtors® and attorneys need to look for how do we get those edge cases. Now let me go back and I want to re ask a question I asked before kind of which is what percent of the time does somebody come to you for an estate plan because of a triggering event and what percentage is it they just go hey I need to have an estate plan is proper preparation for my family. It's proper responsible living and I need to get that done. What% of the time of people just do it because they're supposed to do it. Kind of like not drinking Coke or not drinking sugar drinks and just give it up because you're supposed to versus people who have to. So, I would say about 60% of the time is a triggering event that someone's coming in, you know, and I can probably be safe saying that because my business around the year spikes at certain points like before the holidays, like the three weeks before no in November, all of a sudden I get all these calls to do estate planning. May is a big month for me because everybody's going to go on vacation that summer and people are doing different things and then of course after you know when people come in because their parents have passed now they're like okay now I got to do my estate planning because now I've seen my parents didn't do it so I see how bad it can be. And so I'd say about 60% of the time then the other 40% of the time it's you're just getting people that are just like

36:36 Okay well I it's now time to do this. And I have a case where the client wasn't triggered. He had a $40 million estate. He met with the attorney. He wrote the check. They were they had multiple meetings. The attorney prepared a great draft program. Put in a notebook. The customer took it home. Passed away, never executed it, never funded it. And so, I think one of my purposes of this podcast is to get Realtors® to say we had a chance to be the catalyst. You heard Taylor say, you know, only 40% are doing because they're supposed to. We know when they're supposed to because we know the title, how they took title the house. When they're are sellers, we know how they took title. When they're buyers, we know how they're shopping, how they plan to take title. We should be having those conversations with them and when appropriate, refer them to an appropriate resource. So Taylor, if I had a if I had a customer who I knew owned a house, didn't have an estate plan even started or a buyer who's looking to buy a house, young family, couple, needs to get started, needs to get a plan. What's the next step in them starting down the estate planning process? Do they do they consult somebody in your office? Is a webinar? What's their next step to move forward? Yeah. So the next step is usually I just tell people come in and meet with me and then let's figure out if like is this going to be can we get this done quick and just you know get it finished tidied up and then you're done because there's a lot of people that are that way. They just they just have a couple kids. They have a few things and they really just don't need to be wasting a bunch of time on things.

38:12 There's other people that have to do a lot more work. But one area, especially if you have a lot of real estate agents that listen to this podcast or different people that are in the business, I do elder law, too. And one of the things I say, well, your estate planning is incredibly important for your heirs. What's more probably more important for you is making sure your parents estate planning is done. Yes. And so like you know people don't want to be pushy with their parents or anything like this, but if you have aging parents getting sitting them down and going, "What have you done?" Like what have you put together? And you know, and maybe they don't want to share it with you. So you have to kind of work with them slowly or whatever. But you know, if you had to buy a Christmas gift for your parents and they just refuse to go to an estate planning attorney because they don't want to pay for it, pay for it for them. Yes. You will save all that money. Yes. From avoiding the problem of going through everything. So yeah. But as for real estate agent there is a huge area that is underserved and that is in the elder law area and that is when people are experiencing long-term care issues. So we have this really big problem in America going on right now.

39:37 There's a huge divide between the halves and have nots. The have nots are really struggling financially. Just since 2020, seniors have seen a 20% decrease in their purchasing power from their social security. I about two days every week I'm meeting with somebody where I have to just tell them, you have to move in with your children. You can't afford to live on your own anymore. Like it just it the numbers don't make sense. However, there's a great opportunity right now throughout America and that is there are a lot of kids who are struggling and their parents are struggling. So I explained to them, hey, you guys can get a home together and do multi-generational living. Mom and dad, you can put the home in mom and dad's name. And in Texas, there's a bunch of tax benefits by doing it that way. Because we are our state's tax through property tax. It's how we get most. So we have big property tax. So it's a big opportunity to help people lower their costs by combining resources. And right and I said, you know, people don't like to hear that sometimes, but I'm like at the end of the day, that's how most of the world lives. This idea everybody has their own home, has their own life, you know, that's a luxury that we had in the past for most people, but it's becoming less of a reality for most Americans today. And so, helping real estate agents that understand how to do multi-generational family living and bring families together and say, "Okay, here are good places where you can still have your own space and a good home and kind of figure all that out." That's a big area that's kind of opening up to agents. And for someone who does elder law, that helps me a ton because I can go, "Hey, I need you to go talk to so and so. She knows the area or he knows the area, right? And he can

41:41 Find you a good home that you guys can bring everything together and kind of figure everything out." So, I have another podcast, Reverse Mortgages, because it plays in where you have you have the parents who have, let's say, no income, but they have equity in a house. The younger kids who have enough income but they're barely making it. If they can move into a bigger house, get a reverse mortgage for part of it to finance that and then now the kids have grandparents around to watch to help the kids to reduce the daycare expenses. And so that multigenerational living it worked you know up until up until 100 years ago that was how the how the world worked and still over half the world that's how it works how they make things work. And so not saying you have to I'm not judging people who don't but it is it creates opportunities. I think we have opportunities. You can find a better solution. So, look, I know I Taylor, you obviously are incredible wealth of information. And for those listening in McKini, Texas, not only is Taylor the mayor of probate attorneys and our podcast, but he's running for mayor in Mckin, Texas. So, just before we wrap up here, give us a quick pitch. When's the election and what is it that you're going to do to help Mckin, Texas? All right. So, it's May 3rd and my campaign is changes coming. And we need to plan for it. And so the whole reason I jumped into getting involved was all the different issues that we are facing today and the next four years are going to be very bumpy and understanding what's going to happen. So I'm trying to get my city on board understanding we're going to have to make some big changes in order to make it through the next four years. And so, well, I'm not sure if you're watching this live or replay or if you're obviously watching a couple months later, you missed out the chance to vote for him for mayor, but you don't you have the chance to talk to him. If you're a professional attorney or Realtor® in the probate space, you have a chance to reach out to him and his firm.

43:34 Willprobateattorneys.com is a website. Phone number [phone number]. Taylor Willingham. I like I said I haven't worked with him because I've worked with his firm and Teresa is doing a great job on a case that we're working on in I think it is m is it McKini no it's Port Arthur but in the in Texas and you guys ser all Texas and we talked about that before as well so Taylor thank you so much for your time today I really appreciate it and look forward to continuing the conversation and hopefully next time we'll talk to you it'll have to be your honor the mayor yeah thank you thanks so much and for the rest of you thank you for joining us this is probit weekly we do this every week of a episode usually with a real estate professional whether be a Realtor®, attorney, a vendor that can help us be more successful. You can go to our Facebook group, continue the conversation, look for referrals, ask for help there. It's the Facebook group is probateweekly.com and you can also register at probateweekly.com. Get reminders as well as if you scroll down, you'll see past episodes on YouTube and also you can see us in various audio formats. I'm Bill Gross at Bill Gross Probate. Thank you so much for supporting as always. Make today your best day ever. Thanks so much. Thank you, Ty. Thank you so much. You know, obviously you're a wealth of information. We could I'd have you on every couple months if you wanted to. We could talk just eligible care. I've seen your website. We can talk just estate planning. We I have a separate estate planning web podcast as well. So, maybe I'll reach out to you after May and see if I can get you back on again on one of the other formats. And you know, if I can ever help promote something for you, please reach out to me. Yeah, I'd love to. We'll I'll definitely I don't have anybody out in the LA area to send anything to. So, we have anything comes across that we need you to I mean, we had one up in San Francisco probably 6 months ago where they were trying to sell a home and they asked for referral, we had nobody to give it to them. So, like you I mean I service the state and licensed estate. I have team members. I have two listings now in Richmond which is outside of Oakland. So, some I'll do on my own, some I'll bring another agent in. So, it depends. And also if you need help for an attorney to handle like the sub

45:35 Probate as well. Scrier is a great resource for I say the basic cases if it's more complicated I can help you with those as well. So if I can help anyway please reach out anytime. Oh yeah I definitely will give you a call if reach out to you if I need at least also if I need a just a referral to an attorney out there if I can help at all. Thanks so much and good luck with the election. We'll follow back up with you after May 3rd. All right. Thank you. Should I should I come in? Should I vote illegally? Should I print a fake ballot or whatever? Just kidding. For the record, that's wrong. Okay, anyone's listening in, we can say that. Best of luck. All right, see you. Bye.