Selling Probate Real Estate the Right Way, with Bay Area Broker Michael Young

0:02 So, I've been involved with probate real estate really exclusively last 6 years of focus, but decades ago, I want to say 20 years at least, it might be more, I remember meeting and seeing a guy at a conference, Michael Young, who specialized in this area and it just struck me as kind of odd and kind of beyond my reach at the time. I didn't pay a lot of attention to it until later I got into it myself. And so I'm really excited to have today with somebody who I think initially inspired me and introduced me to the area of probate real estate, has been one of the top producers in this field and I think more importantly has really raised the professional standards and reputation of our industry in Northern California in particular, California statewide. Michael Young of Princeton Pacific Properties. Michael, thank you for joining us today. Oh, thanks for having me. When did I see you on the stage of Mike Ferry talking about probate property the first time? Tell me what was it, 30 years ago? Probably about that long. I mean, I've been with Mike for 30 years, but yeah, listen, it could have been 25? I've no clue.

1:02 A long time. You've been You've been on this niche You've been on this hunt for a long time. Long time. I have, yes. And so what was the initial driver to get into this particular space of all the parts of real estate, which is very broad, what was it that got you onto this piece in particular? I started coaching with Mike and in 1990 and by 1993-94, excuse me, a lot of my business was coming from trust and excuse me, from expires and for sale by owners. I had already been doing probates and trust cuz I started out in the mobile home park business with my family. And so a lot of the people who were buying these homes were coming out of a trust or probate cuz they were see it was 55 and over. So, I had experience in that, a lot of experience in that. But 94, the market was changing dramatically and all of the sudden the for sale by owner and the expires, they didn't need me anymore. So, I called Mike and I said, "Look, I have a major problem here. My business source is going away." I said, "I You know, I need another source." He goes, "Well, you know, call your call your sphere of influence." I said, "I need now business. Not stuff 6 or 12 months from now." He goes, "Well, I can't I can't help you." I said, "Well, I'll think about it and get back to you." So, we had already done a few probates and my assistant at the time lived right next to the Alameda courthouse.

2:25 I said, "Why don't you go in there and just check around, see." And she called me back, she said, "We have a problem." I said, "What's the problem?" She said, "There's hundreds of these files." It's a problem. I said, "Come back to the office right now." And I literally on a piece of paper put, you know, what I wanted as far as what I wanted the lead sheet to look like and I said, "I want you to print I want you to make 500 copies of these and go back to court." And she did and that started everything. You know, it's interesting cuz, you know, I So, you rejected the idea of your COI as a way to get business. However, for me, when I started in probate, I learned a bit about it. Rejected. I'm sorry? I didn't reject it. I knew I had to I was used to I was doing, you know, three, four, five deals a month. I knew that I could not immediately see for sale by owner expired business is immediate. Yeah. So, you have a problem, you list it. I needed now COI, not a year or two or three down the road. Got it. Hi Michael, you're our guy, but we're not going to do anything, but if we know any That I was not interested in that conversation. I needed a source that was This word didn't exist back then, recession proof. Right. So, I called Mike back up and I said, "Listen, I think I have a way around this.

3:46 People always die. They're always being disrupted. I think I'm going to go after the probate and trust business." He goes, "Well, I hate attorneys and I can't help you."

3:55 I said, "I understand." He said that's He said that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I said, "I understand, but you're my mentor. You know, I'm going to take your scripts and kind of tweak them for this business." He said, "Do whatever you want, but I you know, he wasn't mean about it, he was joking with me. But he said, "I just can't help you. I don't have any experiences." I said, "I don't need that. I just I want to tell you what I'm doing and then we'll see what happens." He said, "Great." And that was it. No. So, I always when agents come to me and say they want to get into probate, I always advise them take your COI and call them first about probate cuz I feel like there's a couple probate deals right now in their database. I think you're right. I think it's a good idea. And you know, I say, you know, you sold a house to a guy who's an engineer, but you don't know his wife. You know his wife is a secretary. It turns out she's really the paralegal at some law firm that does a bunch of probate business or estate planning. True. And if you don't talk to her, you're not going to know that. So, it's interesting. So, you went after But the other thing I always advise agents is go to the courthouse and do recon cuz every county is different. Sure. Alameda like LA is a huge county for probate, so you have big volume. Yes. But there's also some tricks. So, you learn how to get the data yourself. There's all kinds of companies that sell that, but you were able to get what you wanted. What else did you learn as you know, went to court or as your assistant went to court, any other tips you got along the way to help you get started? There were no tips because nobody was doing it. At least not in volume.

5:17 And I wanted to do volume. So, I realized that there was really at that time there were agents in San Francisco especially that were doing some of it. But I knew that you know, there everybody passes away. And so I looked at the population, I know this is silly, but I said, "Well, let's say San Francisco has 700,000 people. Half of them or at least a quarter of them could die in the next 12 to 18 months. Out of those, maybe 200,000 people, half of them are going to have real estate. And the ones that have real estate, half of them are going to want to sell. I mean, these were just this is a this is a guy that's, you know, in his early 30s working the numbers, having no basis of reality, completely delusional about it, but just trying to trying to figure out the volume of it. And I figured that there were probably a few thousand deals that nobody was really going after every year.

6:09 Right. At least in San Francisco. I think you're right. And so I thought, "Well, I'd like to apply for that job. It's never going to change." And it never has. It We've had I've been through 9/11 terrorist attacks, the great recession, people still die and get disrupted. They fall Grandma falls down, she's not coming home. It's never going to change. Right. So, along the way, either before you focus on this, you'd done some probate trust work, so you learned it more than most. But along the way, you've like me probably seen other agents who market themselves as experts, but really are not serving the customer or serving the attorney or serving the court by doing a proper job. So, what are one or two of the most common mistakes or bad practices that you see that maybe you would distinguish yourself as a Well, I don't do that, I do this instead. One of the worst things I've seen in the last 5 or 10 years are agents that say they're probate certified. It's nothing. You know, you might be certified, but that'd be like going to a doctor who does a operation once a few times a year. I don't want that person anywhere near my arm. Right. So, the problem is that most agents do, according to NAR, not according to me, between two to four deals a year.

7:28 That's the average volume of a Realtor® in North America and Canada. So, you can imagine an average Realtor® that does no business, they have no business getting into the probate and trust field. Right. At all. What are some of the

7:44 Walking lawsuit. What are some of the I mean, I think it's true about real estate in general. I would I would say to you I go for sale by owner and that's about selling any property in California in particular. Yeah. What are one or two of the areas in probate that are unique that make those properties maybe they should be more likely to avoid those. Meaning, I'm always surprised when a listing agent calls me within my company for help. They've already listed the property.

8:07 It's limited authority, there's like eight heirs, there's they're all lawyered up. I how did you get this deal and who would allow this to happen? And I say you shouldn't be doing this listing. Like, I don't care if I do it. Get somebody who knows what they're doing to do it. What are one or two areas that you see specifically in probate that are mistakes? Is it, you know, in the in the last commands or is it in the contracting? What do you see are the one or two things that you go to Don't let your attorney pick this Realtor® that does this, for example. Most of them don't understand the NOPA process. Yes. Trust or probate. That gets that gets very serious very quickly. Yes. When they haven't told the lender about it, they haven't coached the buyer on it. They also don't know the court confirmation process. Right. For those who listening passively, NOPA is the notice of proposed action and so it varies in probate versus estate trust sales. And there's different strategies, right? And sometimes you want to do it early, sometimes you want to wait till the end. You know, I think that's the thing where I talk to the attorney to make sure, you know, the quarterback calls the right play, but everybody on the team has to know the right play or else it doesn't get run properly. And so yeah, knowing the NOPA process is critical and then court confirmation is a whole 'nother animal. What's that like in Alameda County? Nightmare.

9:26 Every county every county it's a nightmare. Yeah. But we do it. I've done it I've done it, you know, hundreds of times, so it's not a big deal. But you can imagine being a rookie agent or agent who's never been through it. They don't use the contracts properly, they don't understand the probate code, they don't get the right deposit amount, they don't understand the formula, the overbid formula. They're not working with the attorney as a team and I'm letting the beneficiaries know, they're not letting the other agent know, they're not letting anybody know. If I just take a little selfish detour, I'd love to get your opinion on this because I've seen I don't think it's clear in the law. I believe, this is my belief and I'm totally open to disagreeing with me. That's why we're here. That when you sell a court-confirmed property that the when you publicize the sale and take the initial purchase it still has to go through court has still has to go through the contingencies of any buyer. That you can make it with a normal maybe your normal EMD is 3% maybe it's $20,000 even normal loan process and then at that point when they waive the contingencies they need to raise their deposit 10% then you publish to go to court. Other people you're nodding your head other agents I've seen very successful disagree with me and say no the initial sale should be court-confirmed compliant meaning 10% and your offer should be waiving all contingencies. So talking about your strategy on that.

10:50 Your belief on that. There's no belief or strategy in Los Angeles it may be different than in Northern California. But in the Bay Area you cannot bring anything less than a 10% down non-contingent a contract to a court confirmation sale. They'll kick it back. Right but that can be amended at 10% mean you can start with a 3% and then have after have your contingencies expire raise it to 10% and so it's in the initial contract it'll be at 10% but you don't get there until the buyer You could be right I've never done that or seen that. Okay. But it could be I by the way I'm not disagreeing with you that may be possible I just don't mess with rightly or wrongly I just tell the buyer up front here's what it is. Get it right I don't want to screw around with you in 2 weeks or a month or 2 weeks just get it done right the first time. Got it. It's stressful enough to go through a court confirmation stressful enough to deal with agents that have never done this before and buyers and the whole thing. We put in the MLS 10% non-contingent that's it. Got it. How has the change in commissions that we're experiencing certainly statewide and nationally I think as well where in the old days we would list a property including the buyer's agent commission and now I'm not sure you know the state California we have to you know we will start commission and then we either list or we don't list the buyer's commission we're open to.

12:17 How do you handle that and how do you see that changing the process for your probate sales in particular in court confirmation? No effect. That every buyer's agent wants their commission and they get they get it. So in the offer. Again I'm painting with a wide brush I'm sure there's some agents or some buyers that or sellers that have not paid it. But again at least in the Bay Area here we're talking about for the on the average on the low end 600,000 to 6 million. The seller does not want to risk equity on that kind of a property by trying to save 2 and 1/2% at least not that I've seen so far is it possible I'm sure it happens. Right. But I mean I by the way I always let the seller know legally they are not bound to pay that commission. However when I tell them the consequences they usually make the it gets paid one way or another because they don't want to I said you know if we market it I'll take all the buyers. But that's going to be one you know 10th of 1/10% that's going to be seen if you're not going to pay a buyer's commission. It's up to you it's the seller's choice it's not mine. Right. Okay so let's talk a little bit about business development and I know you know I don't want to get into proprietary you know activities that you do but I more want to think about your mindset. I remember you giving presentation on this. Let's talk first about approaching families. You know I'm sure as good as you are in the counties you do business there are other Realtors® who cold call and say they're as good as you.

13:49 Every day Every day. I think that the average you know I've acted as a fiduciary so I know I've gotten 30 40 phone calls I've gotten texts I've gotten emails I get mailers. So what's your focus and again not rather get into tactics more of the mindset what's your focus when you do talk to administrators or petitioners or executors about probate? What's your focus as a mindset on why they should consider working with you rather than the other 30 agents who call them who are professing their professional standards? It's not a mindset I've sold more to the best of my knowledge more probate and trust sales than anybody else in California. So it's as simple as that just you present the number and the I pioneered this. Yeah I think that's true. I mean I don't know any I do know there are other people in LA County who had like one fiduciary who had a lot of property and they built a business and they've been around a long time but I don't think they're anywhere near the scope of the business you have. Let me just put it this way there are people I'm I'll be 63 in March. Okay and I started when I was in the in the business when I was 19. I started in the brokerage business when I was about 25. And then soon after got into probate. So I've been doing this short trust and probates. So if there are people that did it when I did it either they're for the most part I could be wrong they're either retired or don't do the volume.

15:14 Right. So for me I'm not saying this to impress anybody just to impress upon people I don't need to really say much because the numbers speak for themselves. Right. That's it. I've been doing this for this is my fourth or fifth decade. And that's it. They can go with their cousin or their you know daughter-in-law's you know butcher but who sells trust and probate sales on the side but I have the best team in real estate for this kind of thing it's not that we haven't seen we've done it thousands and thousands of times. Our team starts at 5:30 a.m. Wow. And works till 8:00 p.m. Wow. So you know the I'm kind of having fun with this with you obviously but here's the bottom line. My feeling is if they don't if I don't talk to them at least at least offer our services that I'm putting them in harm's way. Yes. That is my mindset. Yes. It's not that I'm better than anybody else I'm not competing with anybody else there are great agents in the Bay Area in Southern California like yourself who do terrific job but that is the mindset. When I'm calling somebody before that they don't do this like a surgeon dealing with a particular kind of surgery they're making a could be making enormous mistake.

16:31 You know when I started focusing in this area That's how I learned the game. 100% I'm going to say I when I started this focus in this area a little over 6 years ago I did my research I went to the court I live near LA County Courthouse which is like Alameda one of the largest in the country I think it's the largest individual court with probate volume in the country and so I was able to figure out where court sales were and I kind of went to a sale every day or two every day so I not only saw the court hearings but I saw specifically court confirmation sales daily. And within 30 days I realized if they don't get the right person the and the odds of getting the right person are infinitesimal. Like three quarters of the cases and this is a fact today three quarters of court confirmation hearings in LA County result in continuance or denial. Only one quarter get confirmed. Why? 9% of the time when I watch it's because the attorney and or the Realtor® make one or two fatal errors don't know what they're doing try to plead with the judge to be nice to them and the judge says it's the law I really can't help you. And so I think you're 100% right that we owe it and for those listening that doesn't mean just cold call these people and tell them you're good be good so that they get the service cuz you're 100% right Michael in your market area. Now if they're in LA County they should call me. No just kidding. That's right.

17:51 But definitely I had the same mindset that if you don't want to use me that's fine it's your loss. I mean I'm signing up to offer to help you and it's hard and I work hard for this business it's challenging I love it. I wouldn't give it up but if you don't I it's okay if you don't respect my business and me being exceptional at this and you're going to pick some other normal Realtor® good luck with it you deserve that whatever that means to you I wish you well. And call me if I can help with any questions but I think you're 100% right with that mindset. Now is it the same mindset with attorneys? I mean you I know some of your business is referred but you also must get kind of the inquiry slash referral right? Hey Michael Joe Smith attorney I have this probate it's court-confirmed and Joe says I should use you tell me why I should use you as your Realtor®. What's your mindset with those Realtors®? Obviously we all appreciate referrals but at the same time some come in warm and some come in kind of cold. What's your kind of approach with that? That's even easier because your attorney could have chosen anybody. I'll ask them why do you think your attorney referred me to you? Yeah. Power questions. I don't have to say much. Yeah. Yeah here's the thing Bill and I know you get this. There's nothing really I have to say I'm going to just ask questions I don't need to say anything because track record the length of time exposure speaks for itself. So all I'm going to do I'm here to be of service to them not the other way around.

19:18 So I'm going to actually pre-qualify them Right. Harder than they're going to pre-qualify me to make sure it's a match. So the way I'm going to do like a doctor and attorney is I'm just going to ask questions. My presentation is just a series of questions. It's not telling them how great I am or how long I've been in the business and they can see that from the website everything else and they can see their Google reviews all that stuff. So that's I don't need to talk about myself. I'm going to ask them a series of questions the presentation is going to be no more than 10 or 15 minutes. That's it. Right. I only want to talk about what's important to them, not what's This is not about me. This is about them. This is an extraordinarily important decision. There's beneficiaries involved. There's fiduciaries involved. There's attorneys involved. There's could be you know, banks that are trying to take the property. They live 3,000 mi away or 300 mi away or even 3 mi away. They don't want to deal with it. They're traumatized. There's a lot of emotion drama. I want to be you know, a calm with chaos, not the other way around. So, like a doctor or attorney, I'm not going to get emotional about it. I'm just going to ask them questions. That's it. And I agree 100%. Of course, I we came through the same training. So, you know, to quote Mike Ferry, selling isn't telling. Selling is asking questions. And there's a reason why which is I think in the questions you're demonstrating your expertise. The kinds of questions you're asking are the ones the Realtor® just took a class and is cold calling isn't going to know to ask what the status of the filing is and attorneys and how many beneficiaries there are.

20:50 Those are the kinds of things that we're thinking ahead because we're doing this every day versus somebody who doesn't really know what they're doing. And I think the process of asking questions is like the best tryout you know, for the best audition for the job is just showing your expertise in the conversation you're having with them. Well, imagine going to a doctor or attorney and they started talking to you about tennis. Or talking about your drapes. Talking about your dog. Oh, that's a Dalmatian. I mean That would be an enormous red flag. Imagine going to an emergency room. You're bleeding like hell and they say I got before I do anything, I just want to let you know, I love you I love your dress. Where did you get that?

21:30 It's absurd. You know, I had surgery about 8 years ago. We went for a second opinion. My wife whose father was a doctor and is more medical went with me and we meet this guy who's a second opinion. And he came in and in 5 or 10 minutes asked me questions and he walked out the room and my wife and I just both turned to each other and said, "Oh my gosh, I want him to be our surgeon." And like he was amazing. But all he did was ask me questions, but he got right to the point. What's the issue? What's the problem? Where's this? Where's that? How's this? How's that? Okay, and kind of based on what you're saying, this is where I think the next step would be and if you're interested, book with my secretary. He walked out. It was like wow, like he obviously knew his stuff, but he didn't tell me his boards and he didn't tell me his scores and his books and all that stuff. But he

22:16 They assume Bill, they assume we know what we're doing until we open our mouth. Then we open our mouth, they go, "Oh my god. When's my when's my appointment with Michael or Bill?" You know, and I have this metaphor. I don't know if you can see it there. It's on the shelf behind me of a chess old-fashioned chess clock. I used to play competitive chess. In chess you would make your move, push the button and the other guy's clock is running and then he'd make a move, push the button and your time. And I always think about that if the other guy's talking more I'm winning. If I'm talking more I'm losing in almost any setting. NAR and DRE should make it part of getting your license that you have to bring a chess clock to every listing presentation. Every time. Yeah. I think because if you if they talk, they think that you're a genius. If you talk, they know you're an idiot. Just it just doesn't work out that way. Let's talk a little bit. One of the areas that I get involved in more and it's kind of a strategic decision. I'm not sure but I find so many customers prospective customers petitioners aren't really capable of the probate process whether they're either too busy, too distracted the area maybe don't have the professional experience. You know, you're selling a million two million dollar house and they're you know, nice modest hard working people, but they have a job.

23:34 They've never owned anything before and they're not so I'm increasingly encouraging customers to consider having a fiduciary to step in for a couple reasons. One, obviously makes my job easier. I mean I don't want to deny that, but it also gets the job done faster because paperwork signed, decisions are made. We're making professional decisions. Talk to me about your involvement. Do you see that same need? Is there a gap in the marketplace? Is that something that I'm exaggerating? The on not the largest of states of course have fiduciaries often attorneys, but talk about more the middle class probates and the role of fiduciaries in those probates. I've been a long time member and supporter of PFAC and will continue to.

24:19 I host meetings and I attend meetings and give you know, everything that you and I do. And they play an extraordinarily important role. They are they're like

24:29 They're like legal social workers. They get they don't get paid a tremendous amount of money and yet their position is in many ways more powerful and important than the attorneys. Yes. And they literally have the assets in their hands. Yes. And so my every time I meet a fiduciary or talk or attend the meetings, I just tell them I mean they're doing incredible work and they don't get the recognition. What am I supposed to be in the course? Yes. That they should. Very important part of society and make incredible contributions. I would encourage people to look at this as a career path because I find that there aren't enough of them. When I when I'm trying to refer somebody, the one a lot of ones I talk to are very busy. They skew like attorneys older and I feel like that industry is aging out and just seems I don't see new upcoming or very often. I don't know how it is over there. It's a big problem here. Yeah. There when I see a new one going, I say, "Don't just do one county. Do Yeah. Because like you say, a lot of them are aging out. The ones that I've been doing it for a while, they have more business they know what to do with. Absolutely. Everyone that's been around for a while. I hear that. It's like it's like being a cobbler or a tailor. A lot of the younger generation just doesn't want to deal with it because it's a lot of work. Right. And it could be 24/7 and crazy amount of responsibility and very expensive insurance.

25:56 So, there's a lot of there's a there's a it's precarious for them to start doing that, but if you can do it you know, you're going to help a lot of people because everybody needs that help. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think you're right. I That's how I see it. I'm increasingly I try to promote them. If I see somebody who's new, I try to get them on my podcast and try to talk to them, encourage them and PFAC is a great organization. We have a chapter here in the Long Beach area. Okay. So, let's talk a bit about generic real estate and how it relates to probate. And one thing that I find is that you know, everybody's an expert in real estate because they work they're on Zillow. They all they all know the market. They all know the which where the market's headed. They all know sales are up or down. They all know the value of their property. You know, first of I guess I would say, "Where do you go for your information?" Like you obviously need to know the direction of the market in the areas that you work. You need to know the value of your property. So, what are the sources of data that you're relying on for those assessments? And then how do you see that role in the marketplace with customers and kind of what do you do to keep your clients informed so that they're listening to you rather than Zillow or Redfin or whoever else wants to sell them something else? All you have to do is go to the MLS inventory. That'll tell you more than CNBC or Wall Street Journal or anybody else.

27:14 People always say, "Well, when should I sell?" Well, let's look at the inventory. If there's a lot of inventory, it's going to be challenging. But if there's not a lot now in the Bay Area for the most part, there's not a lot of inventory. So, now is a great time to sell. I don't care what the interest rates are. You know, you sell ketchup when you have one or two bottles of ketchup and everybody wants ketchup. It's going to be the real estate. You know, we're selling a retail item. And when there's very few of them available and everybody wants them then it's always a good time to sell. And you know, you do a typical CMA. But what's more important than the inventory is that motivation. What do you want and why are we doing this? Right. That's more important than anything because if you don't need to do this, then I can't help you. Right. You have to have motivation for it to be a real seller. Right. Cuz I'm not going to lie to you about the price. You say you want a million dollars, but the market says it's 825. I mean, if you have no motivation, you're not going to be real realistic on the price. If you're motivated, you live in Denmark or Denver or Daly City and you have six beneficiaries. They all want to kill you unless you get that property sold. Then you're going to do what you need to do and price it properly and let us do our thing and market it properly and take it all off your shoulders. But if you have no motivation you're wasting your time, my time, the beneficiaries' time, the court's time, everybody's time.

28:41 Let's talk about the about the business prac Does that seem valid to you? 100%. You're preaching to the choir there, pastor. Thank you, though. And I'm Jewish and I recognize that one. So Me, too. No, I 100%. I think that you know, there's data. You know, there's a data talks and everything else walks. I think that you know, you can I see articles like everybody in Zillow, Redfin. I keep up with the real estate press cuz my customers are seeing it, but I also try to point out well, that's not accurate maybe in my area. Might be true in Texas or Florida or wherever, but that's not true in my market in probate real estate today for the properties that we're selling. And I think it's important to establish myself as the expert opinion as opposed to just another news source. And so yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think I asked you the question just to hear myself talk. So, thank you so much.

29:33 I guess as we're kind of came kind of the end, let's talk a little bit about the business of selling real estate which is probably not that different than the business of law and processing probates or the business of the planning or the business of fiduciary, which is, you know, ranges from large corporations to small entrepreneurs. I think you're more of a your team and you have a partner, two, and a couple employees and such. So, a smaller organization team-type concept. I'm similar in that regard. Talk a bit about where you see the changes in the business and talk about the change of technology. You know, if you were to follow news, you would think that you and I are a day or two away from being completely replaced by one of the different modules of artificial intelligence, but I use it all the time, but I don't see it replacing me. I see it helping me be more productive and more effective. How do you see the changes and kind of where is your horizon the next couple years to implement or to compete with this material? Two things are going to happen. They're already happening. The people in the business that know the business, they're going to take more market share as time goes on. The people that don't know what they're doing, they're just going to keep falling away at a We're already seeing it in the NAR numbers as far as people coming to the business, leaving the business. It's a lot are leaving and they won't come back.

30:54 Technology we exploit all day long. All we're looking at are new apps. We use AI tremendously and it helps most importantly the customer, the client. It makes it more efficient. It makes it more accurate. It makes it everything just better. Yeah. And so, I don't imagine that one of Elon's robots, maybe 30 years from now or 50 years from now, somebody's going to call from Paris, France at 3:00 in the morning, it's 8:00 in the morning here or whatever it is, and they're going to want to know about something and a bot that just it's not going to happen. However, we're going to use those bots and we use those bots and that technology for our business and it's helping to transform the business. It just makes everything easier and more efficient. We use AI incredibly important part of our business. Yeah. And all and my team are a bunch of millennials. They're all a thousand times smarter than me and half my age or a third of my age and Same. I'm not there to do that. My job is to listen to the client, find out what their needs are like a doctor or an attorney, make sure the team understands what we're doing here. I am always going to be the point person for the client directly, but beneath me, the team, I shouldn't say beneath me, to my side because they're I can't do without them.

32:16 They're going to execute administratively and AI is an enormous part of that. Yeah. Yeah, it is amazing how it's leveraged my business. I had originally written a plan to retire a year and a half ago. You know, it's a numbers whatever and the truth is I'm making really good money and I'm enjoying what I'm doing. I enjoy enough of what I'm doing to want to keep doing it. The technology has allowed me at 67 to do things I never could have done 20 years ago. And I find that the newer people are struggling for some shortcuts that are distracting them from the business, but at the end of the day, we have more data available, more information available, more procedures available, more assistance with those things than ever before. To me, it's like been the best time of my career the last couple years and AI is one of the things that I think will continue to make it better. I won't say easier, but more productive, more efficient. It does make it easier. Well, easier in that, you know, you get it done. Now you have Now you have something else you have to do that's harder. So, I try to avoid the word easy cuz it I think it's a trap to chase easy. It's great to have things that are easier and that gives you a chance to do maybe some more of the hard work. You know, the hard work is having those difficult conversations with customers, attorneys that we have to have. If I'm tied up doing a CMA for 20 minutes, I can't do it but if I can get it done, then I can make the phone call and do what has to be done. I think and that's like you say, at the end of the day, our job is talking to the customers.

33:42 Yeah, you're cancer surgeon. And they come out with a with a model or a technique through AI that is able to cut through, get to the cancer, cut it out faster. It's easier for that surgeon. They become more efficient, faster, easier. Doesn't mean they don't have the same the pressure is still the same. Yeah. But the process becomes a little more easier and more efficient through AI, but the stakes are high. You know this. Realtors® cannot make There's no room for error in a probate or trust sale. Yeah. There's zero room. Now, can are mistakes made sometimes? Of course, there's human error, but over the big picture, has to close escrow on time if possible, has to the contract has to be proper, everything has to be done proper, but you cannot make stupid mistakes or hardly any mistakes if any in a trust or probate because there's so many moving parts. You have to really understand what you're doing. You have to have a team. If you're a one-off, just one person in an office handling it, you know, God love you. I wouldn't want to deal with that person. So, again, I get back to the surgeon or the or the or the attorney or anybody doing important stuff, you have to have a team or organization under you or by your side that really is being led by somebody that has mastered the process.

35:05 If I could be so bold, I think the other part maybe you understate a little bit because you're modest is the importance of the trust going in the relationship, right? When things are going to go wrong or then certain, it's great to have a team, but I think that works for you cuz your customers trust you and they're going to allow that process to work itself out. And if and I that's what I work towards as well. And when there's a problem, they trust that I'm working on it. I've done the best I can. It wasn't, you know, malicious. It you know, things do happen, but they do trust that I've done better than anybody else would do and we're going to resolve it. So, I think that's another piece of it, but you're right. Having the right team and the right focus of people around you behind you is critical in delivering. You have to earn that trust every day. Yes. It's not It's not given. You don't get it for 3, 6 months. That trust sometimes is earned every hour depending on what the circumstances of the transaction cuz when things go sideways, Yeah. And you're on you're take It is the people that get complacent with that trust stuff, Right. They're gone. Yeah. You always have to be re-earning that trust with the client. Yeah, it's like any other relationship. It's like being married, you know, you got I have to be a good husband every day. I'd like to take a couple days off, but just as

36:16 Good luck with that. My wife will tell me I do. Now, I'm going to tell her I don't, but then anyhow, certainly that's not the goal. The goal is to be a good husband. How that goes. Yeah, no, it's not. We're not going to go there. We And we don't want to ask her. We don't want to talk to you aloud cuz she might hear. We don't want to ask her cuz everything's okay. Michael, you know, I think the thing that amazed me when we spoke recently kind of reacquainted after a while, you know, it was one thing to stand up on a stage and talk about the business you do. I think as most Realtors® would imagine, you have some marketing magic and some specific tricks of the trade, which I'm sure you have, but what was clear to me talking to you is the difference in your business. While that's nice stuff, is number one, the resources you've committed to delivering in this particular niche. I think second, the expertise that you bring. I really I know it's difficult to share in our industry cuz you're kind of in some sense you're training your competition. At the same time, hopefully there's people out there who might be interested in talking to you about joining your team or referring you business. They get a listing they can't handle and would call you in the Bay Area in particular. Just call me instead.

37:17 Did I say that? But that said, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this today and I know it's challenging and I really wanted to just say on behalf of Realtors® like me who've seen you over the years, thank you so much for the high standard you set. I think it's important that we while we don't have the best reputation as a group, that we aspire to be the best and I think you're about the best in the business that I've come across. It's very nice of you to say. Thank you. It's really been a pleasure. Anyone want more information or deal with Michael, you have business for him, you want to refer him a business a transaction, it's princetonpacific.com is the website. Princeton Pacific Properties is the company, but the website is princetonpacific.com and then down below we have his contact information. Feel free to reach out to him directly or if you lose this or you listen to audio, reach out to me. We'd be more than glad to make an introduction. He's been a great, I think, symbol in I guess North Star in our industry and let's all continue to raise our standards. Michael, thank you for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Bill. Information this is Probate Weekly. We get together a new episode every week, usually with a probate attorneys or vendors, but in this case, really what a practice practitioner at the highest level, Michael Young. Really excited to share him with you today. Hope you enjoyed it as well. Give me your comments, your feedback in the description below. If I can help, reach out, call, text, email. As always, I'm on social media at Bill Gross Probate. Make today your best