Probate Bonds Explained, with Phil Pavarini of ProbateCourtBond.com

0:03 Welcome to Probate Weekly.com I'm Bill Gross Bill Gross probate on social media or Bill Gross probate. Comom is our website with all our links and we do this every Thursday I record live on a zoom call at 9:00 amm Pacific Time 12: noon eastern time and we broadcast this through social media I'm R broker in LA California and the goal of this is a couple fold one to educate myself and all of us together on being better at our business whether we a real estate agent or an attorney in the probate real estate space who want to learn how to be more effective creating more value for our customers the way we create more revenue for ourselves second networking meeting each other sharing ideas sharing business as I build a national platform of real EST agents we in the probate space we want to do that as well and then third hear from other successful business people how they're building their business and we can learn from them so on today's episode we're going to learn from a vendor somebody who I describe as they're not a Realtor® they're not an attorney but some Services the same business we do and in many ways is attacking some of the same Market we are to learn how they do it successfully how we can work with them and their like as well as copy their best practices and bring that to our business so you're going to learn a lot about how to build your business these are some of the principles I've used and Phil in particular this is his second time on he gets the very valued second time guest cup for the prate weekly we'll talk about that in just a second okay just a couple highlights though before we get jump into details of the program I'm back from the Jewish holidays and I just want to say that I've been off a bit you know being a religious Jew we've had literally off six working days of about a four about a three-week period so it's kind of crazy how much time I've had off from the business but I do want to say that as a result I think I' come back more focused and clear on my vision of where I want to build my business and how I like to include you in that path and so forgive me for the time off we did a couple pre-record I thought I'd be doing this one while traveling but we got back in time and so thank you for your patience during the last couple of

2:05 Weeks look forward to adding some great episodes and working together going forward second I just got back from the eXpCon I'm with exp real team we had our national Convention in Miami Beach Florida it was a lot of fun and I definitely I'm still crystallizing my thoughts and takeaways from that but one of the things that I take I want to share and hopefully will come across today is the importance of working with other people leveraging systems besur and people in order to build a business rather than just chasing commission checks and so I think you're going to see more and more of that as you go forward on how we can work together and leverage and want to share that with you and then the other big news is of course the Dodgers won the World Series last night beating the hated Yankees everybody hates the Yankees other than Yankee fans and the thing that struck me I've watched baseball you my whole life as a kid and I want to say one of the things that really struck me about that team in particular just it was striking and I see this message regularly I'm just sorry I forgot my phone on to mute he talking what struck me is how they work as a team they seem to take more pride in each other's success and their own individual success knowing that's the goal and I think that's true for all of us and the grit how even New York while they were down three 0 came back and won a game and that was very motivating and then the Dodgers last night being down 5- Z in the fifth inning coming back tying the game and winning the game I think that's the lesson for all of us that you know if you want to be a champion you can't give it up you got to keep grinding so hopefully we'll all do that okay so our guest today a Phil Pini Jr is a expert in Probate bonds virtually every one of our customers has to get a probate Bond virtually every one of the attorneys you work with has to answer the question where I get the bond from they either defer to somebody else or make that decision and Phil is one of those people who makes us is the is the solution to People based in Ohio I believe yes in Cleveland Ohio but also servicing markets across the country Phil's been here before Phil thank you so much for coming back to Probate Weekly well thanks for having me Bill I appreciate you having you back on

4:09 Excited to be here so when you were a young kid while the rest of us were playing G.I. Joes and playing football were you off playing the probate Bond expert how did you get in this business well I started in bail bonds in particular as I was doing bail bonds which is definitely a different Market than prob that's where it led me here is working with many attorneys and legal professionals doing bail bonds and Private Investigations and here I am today and all we pretty much do is the probate end of it we also do some other bail bonds but primarily probate related so if an eight-year-old child came up here and said what is a probate Bond how would you answer them well it's essentially in a nutshell I describe it as a insurance company as basically coining to guarantee whatever obligations your principal or your fiduciary has to the estate so that's in a nutshell that's what's happening is in the instance of a claim with a shy Bond the insurance company's not just going to pay that they're going to pay it and then they're going to come back after the fiduciary so it's essentially a co-signer in a matter speaking and I think this is a misnomer way it's not so clearly understood because bonds are required and I think we always resist things required but one reason why it's required is the judge in giving authority to somebody is now comfortable that somebody's ensuring in case there's claims but as a fiduciary you also are insured against claim things that may happen as long as you're not frauding the court you're insured against things that may happen as well shortages or problems or whatever based on the type of bond you get correct well you're not exactly insured and it's not for anything it's only when the court determines that Bond is payable due to some violation or some malfeasance or you know the court has to order that is number one and number two it's definitely not insurance so if there is anything paid

6:12 Out on that Bond the bonding company is going to come back after the principal to recover those losses so that's important distinction is there is no you know just there are no bond claims that are just paid and not recovered uhhuh so give us a give me example or two of what are Bond claims that typically get issued and are you know approved and or that the money is reclaimed sure well a few great examples actually recently and more often we're running into families with some sort of disputes where multiple fiduciaries attempt to apply for that multiple fiduciaries attempt to apply for that Bond and there may be disputes one fidu may have had access to bank accounts and they go ahead and spend that money and sometimes it's considerable amounts and they could even spend it in good faith with the assumption that expenditure is permitted and it may end up not being permitted so that bond is going to could be become payable by the court so all the time we run into instances where especially with folks that don't have an attorney they say well I don't have an attorney it's a small bond amount why can't you approve the bond and you know our best explanation is that the lay person generally is not going to be familiar with all the intricid court approval what doesn't and that sort of thing so you all the time we have folks that you know are in that situation the court orders the bond to be paid and then everyone's in a pickle so we try to avoid that can you give me an example of one or two of those types of situation so many you know as a fiary makes what they think is a reasonable judgment but turns out the court says no you should have spent money on that you know I personally as the agent I'm not I'm not involved with a whole lot of claims okay as far as when

8:15 There an issue that comes up that gets reported to the claims department and the only time I generally get involved is when we look at our loss reports or if a customer needs assistance with something they'll reach out to me and then I'll generally just redirect them back to someone in the claims area but as far as the you know Common claims are another area is a lot of times is in guardianships where we have someone that may have had a power of attorney and especially then they may be making expenditures that might now need Court approval where you know maybe they were managing that estate as a guardian for 10 years and then all of a sudden or as a power of attorney for 10 years and then it turns into a Guardianship and continue writing those expenses and the court the attorney says hold on you need to get approval for that or you know that sort of thing you know in general I asked as a produce Sherry for some Estates recently on a couple and I can't give legal advice but business advice I would always give somebody is if you're spending money on behalf of an estate assuming it'll be approved you better be willing to eat that money if not I mean if you're protecting assets that you think in the long run are important that's great but you know things like changing locks I've done without knowing if I'm get you know approved or not or you know but you really have to be very careful about spending money on behalf of somebody else because especially if there's other parties other heirs who object sometimes they just want the cash and they can't see spending money on anything and guard ship's another example where you know constantly ask for receipts of all those lunches they took the kid on and gee you spent too much or you know gee how do they order 34 pound you know the kids only 12 years old you I've seen those arguments in court they become very expensive battles so okay good so let's talk about one of the basic parts is that the bond is many times required in order to get the letters of authority to get the probate process started and this is

10:18 Often a hang-up because people feel like they filed a petition at least in California and they submit it and that might be done right away or it might take several iterations and Court hearings and months and they get approved in court just okay I'll approve it subject to a $20,000 minimum Bond or a million dollar Bond or whatever the assets are and the reaction of the customers always Bond I know about a bond and they have to begin the process so let's talk about most commonly when do you get involved in the bond application process what's the at what stage is the customer when somebody's reaching out to you and that's going to vary based on jurisdiction in a lot of respects some courts require a bond before a case is filed other courts will only accept it after the case is filed and the bond ordered a lot of times we run into folks who they call us where they've been self-administering in estate the court has allowed them to file the estate and then they come to us as the bonds people and you that's when we get them after the case has been filed the bond has already been ordered and what we run into is unfortunately we have to tell the majority of folks that you know your next step is to get an attorney rather than the bond so you know it varies based on that time Spectrum when we get them in the door as far as when we're involved so a lot of times we'll just defer them to an attorney and wait to apply for that Bond until they've secured the attorney what's the time period from when somebody applies for a bond to get how long do it actually get the bond issued well that's one of the things I ran out to grab my notes for bill is we've got some exciting new products I have three different storefront sort to speak for bonds and each one has a little bit different of an offering so we can customize clients bonding needs on one of those platforms we can do instant issue estate bonds now

12:22 So in certain courts if the applicant qualifies so there are requirements there to get the instant issue if it's under a certain dollar amount their credit score is above a certain amount then they're able to apply for that Bond pay for the bond and immediately get the bond for printing so that's you know the quickest we can do it is as fast as you can type in application wow so and that's also based on States so that is primarily in right now in our in-house states which are Arizona Florida Indiana Michigan and Ohio so out of those five states were doing a pilot project and can do those instant bonds so just stop for a second for those just you know help me the audience here if you're an a real estate agent in those states he just told you that they get Bond instantly versus virtually every other company and even fill up until this time with this product a bond would take at a minimum they fill an application the customer sends it in somebody has to review it in my experience it was always a couple days minimum two or three days by the time you got the whole thing done where some highly motivated can get it done right away and so this is the kind of thing that you that you can bring to your attorneys you can bring to your fiduciaries you can ask them have they applied for a bond and they go oh yeah I applied and they went this they went that and again he mentioned certain credit requirements certain dollar amounts so you would be knowledgeable about this product now this isn't I'm in California so it doesn't really apply directly to me but if you're in those states he mentioned and again it was Texas Florida Arizona Ohio and where's your fifth state Phil close Bill let me and I'm sorry to interrupt you Bill but I just wanted to kind of off topic for 30 seconds here if that's okay yeah in my announcing this event I let everyone know I was going to buy him lunch so and I told them after 15 minutes so this is the 15minute Mark I just wanted to tell

14:26 Everyone how you can get that and you can go to any of our websites and send us a message in the message content just put free lunch send that to us and the first 20 folks that send that to me within the next hour we'll send them a gift card for lunch so that's my only diversion real quick bill just because I said after 15 minutes and okay no problem so free lunch and so how would you get that again is if you go to any of the websites there's a QR code there or if you go to the website we talked about the website being probate bond.com they go there and message you I put in the word free lunch they'll get a free so there is a free lunch I didn't know there was such Lun absolutely what'll happen is you get a gift card in the email within h a day or two but yes sir but back to the States we do in-house we do Arizona Florida Indiana Michigan yeah Texas but for right now it's those five and Michigan's so any you in those five states I would learn this product backwards and forwards I mean I'm not again I'm not in those five states but I want to promote that to you as a competitive compelling Advantage what an excuse to call your local attorney and say hey do you ever have customers who have difficulty getting bonds or you in a rush to get a bond right away and look if they're active they may say yes they might just appreciate hearing from you the information it's a fantastic tool so the bond process can be as in as quickly as online in other states or the people who don't meet the credit and that's a very common thing in Probate that an heir doesn't you know there might be an estate worth a million dollars but the heir just you know doesn't have you know a nickel and maybe have bad credit or maybe has been living in the house for free and never really launched so for people with other than that what's the process look like and when do they typically get in touch with you to apply for a bond sure and in other states and in cases where we don't do the instant bond program we are now able to issue

16:31 Bonds in all 50 states so we have agreements with other licensed agents in all states and whether it's handled in-house within our agency or we submit that to an agent license in those areas typically we'll have a reply and acknowledgement to Applications within a couple of hours and if everything checks out there are no underwriting Flags usually have that Bond issued and sent to them either by email or overnight you know however they request that Bond usually within 24 hours or less and often within a couple of hours so you mentioned a couple of days earlier couple of days is really an unusual very unusual for our agency unless there's some really strange issues or underwriting issues you know a couple of days is like worst case for us you know in California I got tell you there's a bond company that really dominates LA and I think Orange County and I think goes back to the days well number of reasons why they do a l lot of marketing and it goes back to the days when everybody went to court every day and they met people and created relationships and did a good job I mean they really did a good job I had good sales reps but as a result I feel like their service is just a notch below you know keeping up with what the best practices are and so again I've used that to my advantage to say no try we don't need to wait two or three days there you know there's another vendor I use out besides SP because they can do the California in house but again I think for all of you should all find the right Bond tool for that proposal and find some advantage to working with them I've sold that bond company that would call inferior service in a case where I needed a large bond for somebody who was very creditworthy and because I knew the relationship with the bank they worked with and were able to get the bond approved that otherwise might not have been so again this is a this is a tool in your toolbox for you to use that's appropriate for your customers and your attorneys I'm not saying it's one size fits all I'm not I'm not an affiliate of phills any way I'm not getting any money

18:33 For this I just really want to myself learn the tools learn from him and share with you guys the opportunities that we have in front of us so the bond is it seems to me most commonly the bond is issued for a year and then gets renewed is that the standard practice and then the entire fee if the if the probate goes 13 months it becomes a two-year bond is that common practice or is that just particular companies particular Underwriters well with most bonds they all renew annually until the court discharges that Bond so that's most bonds we do have a few companies with a few offerings for minimum penalty bonds that are onetime payment and those are an excellent resource for attorneys that might be prosecuting a wrongful death case a lot of times they'll have to file a probate in order to prosecute that wrongful death right well that could go on for multiple years they can get the cour to accept that minimum Bond it's only a one time so that is another option that saves a whole lot of money if you're you know if the anticipated settlement and you try to bond you know $2 million because that's what your anticipated settlement is you could be saving you know thousands of dollars and just getting that Min minimum penalty bond which is a one-time payment until the court orders a higher Bond so and that's an interesting point you make again just to kind of in context for real estate agents listing online looking to expand their business with attorneys is that there's multiple attorneys that kind play in the bond space backwards and one is wrongful death or any kind of civil attorney because the client may have died or may have been alive when they started and died during the course of the legal matter and so while they're not a probate attorney now they are suing on behalf of an estate well the estate only exists if you file and get Court approval to manage the State and so this is another reason why for any real estate agent to share this good information with your COI your Ser

20:35 Influence which includes multiple types of attorneys that will help you stand out as an expert that's why learning these things are so important so some Bond products you know and I say the standard probate Bond seems to renew every year so you want to pay attention if your bond if your probate supposed to close within a year and it's going to go 14 months it's going to cost them some extra money and all the reason why you want to you know shorten the time period if you camp but let your customer know ahead of time that process exists the paying of the bond is in advance of the bond being issued right you don't get the bond unless you make the payment so let's talk a little bit about how would somebody know what the cost is of a bond I know you represent multiple lines and Shop therefore for a competitive product how would a consumer or an attorney or a fiduciary know they're getting a good price on the bond and how can they you know budget that before the process starts well a couple things to mention to you Bill is the first as you mentioned if the case goes 14 months another important benefit that we have we do have a few bonding companies that gives up to a 60-day grace period so that means even if the bond is discharged as long as within 14 not 12 months but if they give you an extra 60 days there's zero due on that extra 60 days there's no renewal due and that's really a cost savings again if you have a large Bond it's a $2 million Bond and it could be you know another $1,500 well just get it discharged within that 60 days and we'll forgive the entire bond amount and what was your question there Bill I'm sorry I h how would one understand what the price is going to be is there an estimating tool or do you have a general rule of thumb on the cost of bonds or how does that work sure and we have over 16 different bonding companies rate sheets so some attorneys or clients will call and they'll assume there's a certain percentage and it really isn't that simple across the board because every company they have a tiered system of percentages so they might charge a different rate from you know 100,000 to 500,000 and then a different rate in

22:40 In several tiers to address that if anybody ever gets a bond and applies on our Probate Court Bond website those bonds are personally underwritten either by myself or one of our other agents and we always start with the lowest cost company so a lot of agencies we see they don't do that they start with whatever is easiest for them to process or all sorts of other criteria but we always start with the lowest price company based on the application and that's where we get into underwriter and agent familiarity with the different bonding companies some companies don't like to see folks with felonies others are a little more lack on credit disputes there's a whole plethora of things that you just have to know going into it who's going to accept what and at the end of the day if an attorney needs a price they're welcome to either call us or send us an email and we'll give them a range of prices you know usually within a few minutes I put the website link into the chat box as well and I think that this is again an opportunity that he just ex extended you can contact him for a quote on a bond price and this is a case where if you're talking to a fiduciary or an attorney you might just ask you know do they feel like they're getting good pricing on their probate bonds and what if I could save you a couple hundred dollars would that be important to you and so just by getting a sec knowing there's a second quote because I think most attorneys only know of one bond company the one that somebody refer them to or the one that they saw in court back pre-co when they went to court every day here in LA and having a second chance you're talking about a bond well let me ask you this in your business are you able to share what's your average bond amount and what's the average annual premium for a bond just as a just as a ballpark number what are we talking about well that's really hard to say because that's so dependent on the case so you know it's like asking someone what your electric cost is every

24:43 Month I don't know if you keep your thermostat on 60 or 85 sure but our minimum penalty bonds are probably by far at least half more of our bonds and those start at $100 they typically go up to 40,000 in penalty and that's just by the nature of many cases just require a minimum Bond and there may not be any liquid assets but you know bond prices go up from there and you know we have you know few insurance companies the rates I'm surprised at how low their rates are now we just did a one and a half million Bond and it was I don't remember the specific fee but it was at least 40% lower cost than our next lowest company so there you know that's also that is comes into play but it can add up it could be hundreds of dollars it could be a couple thousand dollars and I think if you can save $ three $400 you know as a real estate agent you know I work with estro company that Sav my seller you know 500 bucks here and a bond company a couple hundred dolls here and a this a couple hundred dollar that's what our job is to create value for our customers and it's not just the lower price it's hopefully lower price for the same or Superior Service a personal connection and I and I do know that most attorneys have never talked to the bond company they have some person and an email they send their request to and they just assume it comes back you're giving them a chance to save some money hopefully and tailor the bond to the customer in a way that makes a lot of sense hey we are doing this live on Zoom for those of you who are on you're welcome to ask questions I know I got one question which was the URL of Phil's company and it's Probate Court bond.com probate cbond docomo box and you can go on there and you can do the application online for the autoly bonds if you're in the state say he does that you also can reach out to him and send an email request for a quote on a bond and he's more glad to do that as well you've ever the questions and then when we rebroadcast this onto LinkedIn Facebook and YouTube you're welcome there to ask questions I check those as well

26:45 Regularly and we'll come back with any questions just a little bit of housekeeping real quick so I kind of catch us up on where we are this is Probate Weekly.com we do this every Thursday at 9:00 a.m. We do it live on Zoom call so if you're register at Probate Weekly.com your email address and you'll get a link with the zoom contact and if you scroll down you can also subscribe to us or hear us on the various audio versions Spotify apple and such and then if you like the video version YouTube we can get all the past episodes here by clicking on the YouTube link we continue the conversation at face on Facebook at Probate Weekly it's a probate a group we have in Facebook with a couple thousand real estate agents feel free to go there and post your content you know it's one way to get more views and likes as they're going in mostly This Is Mine by off here go' Kessler puts his probate health desk videos in there and here is Bry stuffen who does his as his video was a great video by the way and he has a great website for Resources by the way so great resources if you want to learn great resources if you want to share your business I also am really excited to share that I am on now KGC real estate on the air K is the kind of the traditional real estate call letter for west of the Mississippi versus East I think was W and GCI gross commission income obviously is an illusion to Realtors® making more money this is a 247 online radio station I'm on once a week on Wednesdays at three o'clock but there's great contest the kind of thing I play at my desk to listen to motivation and insights on real estate so feel free to join in there Our Guest today is again Phil pavini Jr who is a probate assurity bond expert and has insurance company more importantly you can see him in his business at Probate Court bond.com he really is a marketing genius and so I'm really excited to have M sure kind of his mindset and how he approaches these things and can help us so let's talk a little bit Philip fre p a little bit about from what probate bonds are and you know one thing about you that has always impressed me is you're always doing something of

28:47 Marketing I think that you know QR code up there you got the free lunch promo I know you're always changing the websites and the domain names and such can of give me an overview how do you approach the marketing part of your business I think the first thing folks need to realize is you have to be hungry so if you're doing good and you're busy and you have some extra time I don't I don't you know have a whole lot of hobbies I like to try to increase productivity and I almost call it a shotgun approach where I try to do as many different marketing things as we can and hope enough of it sticks that someday whenever you see some of that slow down or stop you know I made it big so that's what I think happens some of these other companies or agencies that might not give as high of service or personal service or a lot of agencies won't necessarily put a bond with the lowest price or whatever it is just because they don't need to they have enough business coming in the door that they could really and not for better or worse they it doesn't matter if they give that extra 10 minutes of attention so you know as long as I'm in business I'm here to help folks and even to my own detriment I mean I've on a regular basis I try to tell folks you know let's get you approved for a 100,000 Bond but let's issue it for the 20 just so you pay the flat rate until the court orders it higher and then you know we know that you're approved for the higher amount you don't have to worry about that but you know we're going to save you money on the front end so the best I can tell you Bill is I just try to approach everything we do as if I was the customer you know I've been on that customer end a long a lot of times and it's really shocking to see how many businesses now in all Industries just don't they don't seem to know right from wrong anymore for a lack of a better way to describe descri things so in my I try to reflect that and just show that you know I care about your business and I

30:51 Care about each individual when they call me as if they were my own family you know that was looking for a bond and any more it's really far in between where I run across other vendors in any industry like that so yeah I do my best and hope for the best you know it's funny to say that because I feel the same way and about you I mean I get that about you and that's what attracted me from the beginning and even though you know we haven't done a lot of business together I've certainly learned a lot from you and I really do try to pay attention to what you do to learn improve my business there's a saying I've always Gone by which is hungry dogs hunt best and I think that when you're you know when you really love the business you want to do well not because you need it to pay your rent or for food but you do it because you just love the hunt you love the competition you love helping people you're going to do a better job I think that's reflected in your marketing efforts and activities so talk a little bit about you know I do you work with any particular real estate agents are there people who bring you business that are Realtors® in and if no what do you think that is I mean obviously we all have the same customers at some point why is it that more real estate agents aren't learning about private bonds sharing with their fiduciaries and their attorneys information well bill I guess I have to lend you a compliment on that to answer that question is most real estate agents are not involved with probate as often or as in detailed amounts as some agents might be like at you do a lot I' guess probably the majority of your clients might involve probate in some way and from what I've run across most agents are real estate agents are not really focusing on probate it might be something incidental that they run across a couple times a year but they're not dealing with folks day in and day out so I think that's a big reason that prob far away from real estate I just think the time that the real estate agent is involved versus

32:54 When a bond is needed it just doesn't always you know usually you're real estate agent is going to come well after a case has even been filed in court you know until families start to think about selling they're not even talking to a Realtor® right and yet when they when they decide they want to get approved they're going to need a bond right you can't sell the house in many cases without the letters you can't get the letters in most cases without the bond and so you know they can think they're going to do what they're going to do and they often get tripped up by the little things and one the little things can be the bond process and so if you can help unlock that early that creates rather than just telling people how you're the expert you can actually show them just by asking a couple questions about the bond and then turning them over to you I guess if they have any real questions on how they actually turned into business so let me I'll put you on the spot a little bit but I want you to be honest I want you feel free to say no if a real estate agent in another state you know particularly the states that you're home in again Ohio Indiana Arizona Florida and I forget the fifth Michigan and Ohio yeah Michigan Ohio are Rivals and then Indiana's nearby there and then Arizona and Florida is my home away from home I just got back from it so if you're in those States in particular for real called you say he I'd like to just do a short interview with you about the bonds that share with my attorneys or my future perspective personal reps would is that something that you would do or have you done that before has anybody called you to do that before and specifically to help I'm sorry just recap just to interview you but and just talk like we did here if a real estation college you wanted to do a I mean I know you've been very gracious to come on here and for those who are listening I'm not paying Phil not getting any money from him I'm not paying him to Beyond he's just a nice guy and I called him a couple years ago and he said yes and I called back because I think he's just a great guy I want to share but if a real estate asent called you wanted to do a similar five or 10 minute video interview about bonds and maybe more a deep dive on their particular state what

34:58 Requirements and what offerings you have is that something that you'd be able to do oh absolutely and I'll extend that beyond our five states I'm happy to have a conversation with any Realtor® or attorney or Bond principal or fiduciary in any state you're they're welcome to call and I'm happy to you know give them my opinions a lot of times I'm going to pre-qualify myself when I'm having those conversations and let you know these are my opinions so I'm not an attorney you know I can't give you Financial advice or real estate advice but I'm happy to share what my experiences have been in probate or bonds or that sort of thing absolutely and I think for those and my point is those you listening on the call or listening replay this is an opportunity you know we all as real City agents know we need to reach out to our customers or All Star for Content what do I do what kind of content well here's one Phil's the easy guy to talk to as you can see and I would just urge you all to help promote your business by asking questions and then get very specific in your state about what offerings he has and doesn't have leave those out and focus on ones he does have so you can like be a value to your attorneys and that way when you make the referral you can also send the video and say hey I also did an interview with him where he talks about these in details and it's going to help pre-sell you and pre-sell bill as a vendor in those cases so I would urge everybody to try to take advantage of that in his generosity okay so how has the real Market overall you know is off you know in sales by 30% or more which means overall there's less business for real estate agents some are doing well some are not doing well the average is off by 30% obviously in my case I think I'm doing not the same as I did last year I'm tracking on kind of the same numbers how does the change in the real estate market affect your business or does it affect your business as far as the probate specifically well a few things there to comment Bill and we're back to how dedicated you are and how much you

37:02 Care and I can see that as well so I would venture to say that you're your sales are not going to go down they're going to go up even in a climate where others are going down because not again many vendors just don't quite get it they don't know right from wrong in my opinion and you do so I congratulations on that but directly other than the thing that affects our business more than that would be the Aging population so it's not necessarily real estate market good or bad it's you know when we're dealing with probate it's when folks pass away or they need guardians or that sort of thing and U For Better or Worse that's only going to get more busy u in the next 20 30 years as our population ages including myself so it'll be me sooner or later or everyone that'll have to deal with that yeah and the way I thank you for the answering I think to sim as mind I would say describe it as it's you know my wife one day said well you're really lucky that in a declining Market your business isn't dropping because people are dying at increasing numbers not lower numbers the downside is that it's an attractive Mark Niche that's attracting a lot of new competitors and what I find are people who jump in and spend a day or two trying it and they realize it's hard and I will say I do feel like I work maybe twice as hard for the same business twice as hard for maybe a little more business knowing that in the long run when the market turns around I'll benefit from it so I don't mind it and I think that if you enjoy what you do then working harder isn't a bad thing it just is what is you know imagine you know the Yankees or Dodgers last night you know is it harder to strike the guy out is it harder to get the hit yeah but you're still playing the game you might as well play and play hard and that's how I feel about our real estate and obviously meeting vendors and talking and learning about their business and then bringing that back to my clients is really what I do and I would urge everybody on this call to do as well okay so last thing I wanted to kind of cover is just as a general business practice I think that you do as oh I got

39:08 A hand up there let me get Bernie first I'll go back to my question Bernie let's bring you in how can we help you what do you got going on yeah thank you Bill and Phil I would like a little more help and understanding when are the bonds required in a probate always or when there's contentiousness amongst potential beneficiaries or I in California of course we have limited and full Authority is it more in limited Authority just some guidance on when does the judge decide a bond is required sure happy to answer you Bernie thank you for the question and that's going to be so State specific and jurisdiction specific that it would be really hard to answer I'm happy answer in the jurisdictions I'm familiar with but California has a lot of very different procedures that Most states don't have no way no way yeah there's a there's many things in California that are just so off different than what I might bear with but no tell me it's not true yeah For Better or Worse right B I don't know that might be a different podcast I'm happy to join you I do that one too by the way by I have that podcast too but that's another one yes thank you good I might join you let me know we'll talk politics I'm not here though but as far as the bonds go in our state the bond is set by Court rule so the bond specifies if the estate meets certain criteria the that's going to require a bond of two times the value of the estate and that is you know just right in the court rules now the caveat to that is in some of the larger counties like our home county we might have 30 different magistrates and each one of those magistrates they are legally allowed to make orders and they vary from what the court rules say so even though the

41:14 Court rules say that you know under these circumstances you need a bond we very often have magistrates order Bonds in excess of what's required or sometimes they'll waive a bond when I would think it would be needed so that's you know so specific now you mentioned disputes we've had more and more disputes lately you it's been probably going up to about one a week I'm getting now is states with disputes are almost impossible to bond so once any member in that estate is you know disputes something and it's on the record a Bonding Company is almost always going to require a waiver from all the people in the estate before they'll issue that Bond so then you know a lot of times folks ask well you know the why does the Bonding Company get to decide who qualifies you know why the court just ordered this Bond why isn't why isn't the bonding company issuing the bond the court ordered it and that's when we go back to qualifications and risk of being payable on the bond so when there are disputes it's almost like buying a claim you know you know that there's a good much better possibility of a bond claim coming in when you're working on an estate with a dispute so I don't know if that answered your question well that's very helpful Phil it does I thought the bonds came into play when it was a dispute now you're letting me know that it's really almost impossible to get a bond when there's a dispute so that really does answer my question thank you since so much of our audience is California based let me give a little more specific California information as well again not legal advice but business advice which is if you read the probic code you're going to find and hear the judges say that there are cases where the bond can be waved if it's waved in the will so Wills are properly written will say that they'll allow you know the bond be waved and if it's there and it's and the bond the will

43:17 Appears to be in good order oftentimes the judge will accept that as a way to waive a bond because they've already identified who they want to manage the estate and the will anticipated that properly absent that I think almost every case in California Phil alluded to the kind the minimum and in California I think it's a $20,000 minimum which costs 100 bucks or 200 bucks whatever but there's the paperwork involved and some people don't qualify and so sometimes we need the attorney to sign on the bond to get it approved or other issues or multiple Underwriters take it back to you know the bond company rejects it well that's when you could call Phil and say hey this one was rejected can you help us out maybe a second set of eyes on it we'll get a minimum approved and then in California we often the standard bond is for the estimated amount of the assets based on the application of the of the petition and so you know if you have a house in California that could be you know half million dollars a million dollars that gets to be a fairly expensive bond for somebody who may not be credit worthy and that's really where this comes in California as an issue and even though the B the court will say well you know you want to apply for full Authority fine we require a bond and the judge says they have to have a bond but as said that doesn't mean the bond companies will bond it they'll tell you go find another bond company we don't want to do it and so that's where sometimes cases come back as needing full Authority because either the petitioner isn't bondable and they don't know a way around that which is our job or second there's an objection filed in which case you can't get the bond and the court Authority in California be limited Authority and then so instead of needing a bond the Court's going to off is going to you know monitor every check basically so there's nothing happening with money so that's G brief over in California thank you Bill thanks Bernie thanks so much for jumping in and being a support appreciate it sure okay so Talk the last thing I wanted to ask you about because I do

45:20 Know you're home state was Ohio I know that you've pushed a little bit more of your business by percentage out you know one of the things I've noticed to go back to the issue of you know Market maybe even though it's growing being more competitive one answer to that is expanding your geographical base I know there a lot of businesses that have done that I know in California so many of our businesses in California have to operate other states because it's so hard to operate in California I know as a real estate agent I've really built a national platform I get referrals for my network across the country talk a little bit about where are you on that process are you adding looking to grow G graphically is that a key part of your business is that just something that organically happens for you or is that something that you're pushing definitely looking to grow in ad States and jurisdictions where we can write bonds most I'd say that most bonding agents and insurance agencies are geographical in nature so when they're marketing they're marketing to California or LA or that sort of thing and those companies they offer a wide plethora of different products so I've taken a little different approach and where I like to concentrate and probate we will do all sorts of bail bonds any Fidelity or shity Bond available that you need in the United States we have we have special products for like Florida has a Professional Guardian program we have the lowest price on those bonds you know and adding those additional States allows me to continue focusing on the specific probate market so that's why we're looking to add more States and why we built the Partnerships with for instance the national referral bonding that we can do so and again I know again for those listening I want you to think about this for your business here's a successful business person who's done well for a period of time who's telling you that he's pushing out geographically as a way to expand his opportunities I think as we as Realtors® have to think about that as well whether you're just in your local market how to expand within the state you're licensed in how

47:23 Do you do business in multiple States I'm with eXp Realty we can do business nationally through referrals and a commercial business we can do business nationally as well so this is something we need to be thinking about how do you and that's why I built my probate business to be honest the way I did was because I realized that many agents can't do probate effectively because it's so spread out geographically compared to regular real estate you have somebody who died in LA but you own property in Orange County maybe in Northern California maybe Nevada how do I create value and then how do I get paid for as much of that as possible and the answer is to think about building your business and pH has been a great example of that I kind of watched what he's done and try to copy some of his best practices so thanks so much okay well I think we're kind of at the end here just a real quick recap this is private weekly we do this every Thursday at 9:00 amm Pacific time 12 noon live on a zoom call love to have you join us register at private weekly.com all you need is your email address you'll get the an email with a zoom link every week if you scroll down you can also subscribe on the various audio format Spotify Apple podcast and such and you can see the past episodes on YouTube if you're interested we continue the conversation on Facebook our Facebook group is Probate Weekly you can go there and join that group put in your email address and then you can post your content a way to get more views more likes more engagement as well as to learn other content is focused there I am now approved in a regular on KGI radio on the air you can go to KGC radio on the air either online on your bro on your browser or they have a now a apple and Google application you can go search for KGC real estate on the air download the app and you can listen to Great content 247 Our Guest today is Phil pavini he's an expert in Pro BS I was scrolling down his content while I was talking to him because he has some really good post he has kind of an interesting sense of humor as well so but definitely go there and meet link up with him but also take a look at his content that you can repurpose for your business and lastly Our Guest Phil

49:27 Phil is at probate court bond.com and he offered if you reach out to him through the various social media channels and put the word in free lunch for those you don't believe it you can get a free lunch right Phil that's right and right on that page you just had up there's a button in the middle of that screen where it says send message and that's right where you have to go or any of our websites we do have americ bail bonds.com find shity bond.com and then the probate court bond.com and each one of those websites it is a different offering so you will access a different Market sort to speak if you're looking for instant bonds or na Nationwide bonds or that sort of thing just reach out to me and I'll let you know where the best to apply is but absolutely I would love to send everyone who sends me that send secure message there and then puts in free lunch in the in the content and we will send you a gift card within a day or two fantastic well Phil it's always a pleasure to chat with you appreciate seeing all the progress made since the last time we talked thanks for all you do for the industry and for Probate Weekly and for our participants thanks so much for being on again today and thank you so much for having me Bill and I look forward to next time and I'll look forward to that invite on the political discussion okay yeah I send you link to that so I do a weekly podcast on the real estate market and inevitably in California real estate is very political whether it be our government helping squatters destroy real estate value or limiting building new homes or just in general attacking real estate agents in favor of online services it's a regular topic I talk about so I'll send you link to that as well so thanks so much we appreciate it for the rest of you thank you so much for being on today Probate Weekly on Bill Gross at Bill Gross probate or Bill Gross probate. Comom is the website love to help you if I can reach out ask questions if you go to that link down below you can book a call whether you're an agent looking for coaching I don't sell coaching I'd be glad to help you give you some advice if you're an attorney or personal any with some questions feel free to reach out have a

51:29 Great week everybody thank you so much and thanks again BR for your support