Escrow Services in Probate Sales, with Charity Skore of Granite Escrow

0:01 Probate Weekly. Well, nothing really ever gets sold without an escrow officer who's really an independent third party handling the transaction for us. In escrow, there are some I'm sorry, in probate there are some unique things that have to get done. My experience is every escrow officer I ever ask is an expert in probate and non don't know what they're doing. But I'm really excited to have her today some I'm an escrow win on a deal. We came to her as alternative and she's done a great job and the first one we opened up with her really excited to introduce Charity Skore from Granite Escrow in this case the branch manager of the Beverly Hills office. So Charity, probate you've got to really enjoy the process to be an escrow officer handling probate cases. Yes,

0:44 You do. There is a lot of moving pieces with a lot more people than generally what you see in a traditional escrow. So communication is key, but you have to understand the dynamic of the all the different parties that you're working with.

0:57 I say that it starts with the motivation. You can tell a probate real estate agent or a probate escrow officer in this way. When you talk about problems, the probate Realtor® or the probate escrow brag about how many problems they have and they've solved. The nonprobate Realtor® escrow complain about each problem they have to deal with. True or not true? Oh, absolutely.

1:22 Yeah. You and I talked I think the first time I had met your you have a account executive Dale, great guy. Shout out to Dale out doing the hard work, out the heavy lifting. And he talked about you, but you know, I always hear all these stories, but I talked to you on the phone right away and like you and I started playing one up each other on who had the worst hairstyle and you held your own with me. So, I said, "This lady knows what she's doing." So let's talk about what are what are the kind of problems that you see that are unique to probate that make those transactions more challenging for the customers or for the Realtor® for the escrow.

1:53 Absolutely. So I think the first thing to realize when you go into this is that when you have an administrator a lot of times they know nothing about the property. So there's lots of questions that we have that they may not know. And that is tough when we're talking about disclosures. That's tough when we're talking about ordering city reports and things like that have very specific questions that could potentially put the estate at a liability. It makes it difficult. So we have to really know how to navigate those, know how to ask the right questions or how to problem solve even come up with the answer that we don't know but find the right person who does know it. Now, we do business, the one we're doing right now is the city of Los Angeles. And you helped us discover the new requirement for some sort of arbor arborist report or tree report or something for protected trees. And so, here we're in a case to use your point, the customer being in a state. They've never been to the house. Can't even get into the house because there's a guy there who shouldn't be there keeping us off. We're trying to navigate through that process. So obviously you have to do some handholding both to inform us and help us guide through the process.

2:55 Absolutely. So, the city of Los Angeles has this requirement and the requirement just recently changed that you are required under penalty of perjury to disclose if there are protected trees. Well, who knows first of all what trees are protected and not protected. And if you don't have access to the property, who knows what even trees are on there? And there's how do you do that? We have retrofits that go out to the city of Los Angeles to check the retrofit, but nobody who actually does trees. But now we have that option. And now we have arborist on contract and we're trying to get him out to the property. And I think we're in our case we're actually filing an ex parte order against this occupant to make him let us get the arborist on the property to look at the trees to do a $95 report. The whole thing is just crazy.

3:38 We're going to spend $1,000 on legal fees to get a $95 city report that the city of LA requires. And here's the thing is we didn't even have an option to have an arborist. What I ended up doing is I was calling my retrofit guy and say, "Hey, this is a new requirement. What can you do? Do you know anybody?" And he's like, "What are you talking about? The 9A doesn't call for that." Well, the 9A application for that city report has recently changed. So, he went to a couple people he knows. And now that's actually a new service that he provides. So, that's something that anybody who doesn't know about protected trees, a lot of times the people living in the property wouldn't even know that. So, sometimes people sign that document, maybe not even with the right knowledge. But now that's a service that we've been able to partner and give somebody some assistance. So now we know when we've got a file, we've got the right person to go to. We don't have to delay. We know exactly who it is that we need to go to.

4:28 I mean, I have a modest-sized house. We got trees in the front, trees in the back. I don't know if anything's protected. How I know. I still don't even know what the protected trees are. At least someone does.

4:37 Now, one of the challenges I think of probate in particular is everything just takes a little bit longer, right? I mean, just getting approval signed or negotiations signed, escrow documents signed, you add an attorney, you add a second party. Sometimes they can be more conservative. So, talk about kind of how you set expectations on a case where it's going to take longer than a standard transaction commonly.

5:00 Yeah, it's hard because we're dealing with different people. Like, it's very easy to get the buyer to sign their documents. That's not the problem. But a lot of times the administrators are still trying to pull together documents. You know, we still have to get authorities to be able to order payoff demands and sometimes the new administrator has even been listed on accounts where we have payoffs. So that's providing additional documentation. That's additional review time. And I find for us the most important thing is communication. I try to send out updates to let people know this is where we are. This is where we are. But it's not even just the signing of paperwork, but the turnaround time to get a court appointment. The turnaround time from the time the court confirms a sale to when we actually get the original documents so we can close. These are not normal time frames that you can even always disclose because I just got a I'm getting a court confirmation tomorrow and the attorney just filed the order. However, there have been times it's taken me three weeks to get one. So there's a big difference in the process that the attorneys have and we it's very much trying to get those updates so we can make sure that the lenders are properly updated for locking rates. It's just communication so everybody's on the same page which is a lot more than what you do in a standard 30-day sale where you have separate conversations. You definitely have to be more in touch with people and really let them know what real dates are, especially when there was a court confirmation involved.

6:28 Yeah. And I think the court confirmation process varies so much because for a lot of reasons. One is [unclear] attorneys have never done one before. They don't really know what they're doing and so they're kind of misleading everybody as to what to expect. Second, you know, the Realtors® don't know what to do and are hesitant to step on the attorney's toes you know for causing problems getting in the middle of something. At the same time, sometimes you have to push people like any customer, you have to kind of push your customer gently to get them into action and attorneys will take off for a week or two on vacation and you're stuck without your documents until they get back. That's not as Realtors®, we don't normally deal with that. That's not a normal Realtor® experience to wait two weeks because a real estate agent's on vacation for two weeks, right? That's not really And even your case, I'm sure you've taken some time off, but some of your office is covering your desk. I would think some you different offices, whatever.

7:15 Yeah. No, exactly. It's a completely different and not only that, but on the buy side in knowing as an agent, knowing what the real probate process looks like to make sure you're providing the best service to your client, knowing at court confirmation somebody else could come in and overbid. There's a lot that goes into it. Probate's not for the faint of heart, but it's also trying to educate people that way they don't go in and just have no clue and get totally blown over and make errors. I have a file right now where the buyer's agent as part of the deal removed all the contingencies and there's a lot of issues going on and now we've got that hey we've got a deposit contingencies are removed it's technically legally allowed to be the seller's deposit and it's just a mess and if you don't know what you're doing or you don't know what the possibilities are you can find yourself in a little bit of a pickle.

8:09 Yeah. I also find that some of these things aren't so well defined. One example is I've represented buyers who overbid and won and I've represented sellers who had properties that were over bid in court. And one of the questions is always when you overbid, does the new buyer sign the same contract as the old buyer or does the new buyer not have any contract at all other than the overbid form? And then you start with your escrow from there. And I believe I'm not an attorney, but it is in English. I've read the code. And I talked to attorneys about it. It's not clear it. You as a broker, our company eXp, one of the largest in the state, allows us just to use the over bid form and then from their escrow instructions

8:53 To come together, but that requires us to agree on the escrow company, the title company, and some of the other terms. So, that becomes a little can become a little wild if you don't know what you're doing. Now, I imagine you must be involved in some of these where you know, nobody really knows the right answer. There is no real right answer. I think in this case, for example,

9:11 And you're kind of the middle, you're the middle person in a sense. How do you arbitrate those? The first thing is finding out what I'm getting. I have some people that I do a decent amount of probate with. They actually, thank goodness, have an over bid sheet that gets attached to the actual court overbid where it goes into who's paying what fees because the overbid sheet just basically is a dollar amount. You bid a dollar amount. All the rest of the who pays city reports, who's paying what fees, who's responsible, all of that stuff is not listed. So, I have a couple people that I work with that actually do have a sheet that they kind of mark what those answers are. I've had some people who go by the same contract and it's really different. So, the key is what documentation are you giving me and then

9:57 Comparing it to the old contract? What's going to be different? That way, I know what I'm going to end up using. And every and like you said, every agent's different. Every attorney is different. There is not the same clear line. We need this plus this to get to our end result. It's kind of a windy street and we all figure it out together. But that's why being educated in this is so important because you don't know what you're what you don't have until somebody tells you, "Oh, you don't have that or you don't know that."

10:25 Well, and I think that whoever the listing agent is that has that addendum, smart to protect their client that way, right? Because you have the option when you sell a property in court and say, "Well, we're selling it, but here's all the conditions that we're selling it under." And as a listing agent, my job is to protect my client. Of course, I would do that. On the buyer side, if they don't do that, often times I have the agent, the listing agent say, "Oh, well, you have to sign the same contract the other buyer did." No, it doesn't say that we're here. We agreed to pay you this. Here's the property as is conditioned. Here's my seller's my buyer's name. Here's your check. We're in escrow. And

10:58 That reality is a harsh reality for listing agents that don't know what they're doing. And I deal with that. I mean, I probably do a couple of those a year and it's been nice business for me, but it's always a rough discussion because they don't want to hear about it.

11:11 No, it is. And a lot of times when people are coming in for court confirmation for an overbid process, it's not somebody who initially wanted to write the contract and got over bid like at the initial offer stage with like seller multiple counters. A lot of times it's investors or somebody else coming in. So, they're just trying to get the best deal possible. So,

11:32 It we get to a point as an escrow person where I don't really have mutual instruction. And my whole job as escrow is to have mutual instruction, right?

11:40 California contract law says it needs to be written. So, it's almost like I'm having to bend people's arms to figure out what to put in the escrow instructions. So, we then have a mutual instruction. This over bid is very limited. It's really a purchase price. And I tried to explain to the listing agent who unlike the one that you deal with didn't have an addendum. I said look just because you would like to have all these conditions doesn't mean you get them. We didn't agree to that and it's not writing and therefore we sit down and we come and in that case we were arguing over the escrow and the title and some other terms. So obviously you know some agents have done well in the space of probate that you deal with and you I'm sure you see some that struggle on the same transaction. You might see that. What are the common characteristics of women that do real well in probate real estate?

12:27 So the two big things that I see is one, attention to detail. With the ability of time frames. Time frames are really important. You need to be able to properly handle your time frames. And it's not even just from the time that you go to court, but there's a lot that goes into a lot of times we have probate properties and these properties are distressed properties. There's a lot that needs to be done that you can't just, hey, sign a contract and let's move on with business. So the other thing that a lot of people need is, you know, connections with builders, connections with repair people who, you know, rummage property, people who pull out trash. And these a lot of times have to be people who are willing to take payment at the close of escrow. And we don't always know when that's going to be. So one, you need connections. You need some really good connections of people that you work with regularly where you trust their services. You know their services. They know you. And that takes time. You have to build that wealth of knowledge. And then you need to be able to kind of like an orchestra conductor. You really have to be doing multiple things at once. You're dealing with the attorneys who have one specific set of requirements. You're dealing with the administrators. Some of these administrators are people who are of a connection to the estate, but some of them have no connection and it's their fiduciary job, but they don't have a connection with the beneficiaries. So, you do have some real personal issues that can come in there, as well as then you have the agents that you're dealing with and the actual physical closing side of it as well. So, it's, you know, it's like having two monkeys thrown in the middle of with monkey wrenches where,

14:04 Hey, why you call me a monkey? Not you. Everyone else. Oh, all the other agents. Okay, I'll go along with that one. Never you. But when you talk about having like a Rolodex of services also that's an asset you bring as an experienced escrow officer and deal with probate. I can just say off top my head the first transaction we did you really brought in the arbor situation to help what otherwise was a new problem and give a solution and I think the most important thing was I went on the line to suggest your company as the vendor to a client. We had another company that was terrible and I said, "Well, let's try something different this time." And it made me look good because you solved the problem with the customer. I didn't have to get involved with it. That's like the best that happens like magic.

14:48 It's, you know, if you can solve a problem, then you're going to be somebody's go-to the next time. You know, being creative and thinking outside the box, I think for anybody in any industry is really important. It is very easy to become complacent in what we do. And as a real estate agent, as a lender, as escrow, if I define myself in a specific box where these are these are what I do and it's outside my scope, then that's how I'm defining myself. But if I can open up my box and say, "Hey, bring me your problems. Let's see how we can fix them." You're just serving people better. And in the end, that's what we do. We're serving people. People who need to close out estates, people who want to buy homes, agents who need, you know, assistance with their transactions, lenders. That's we're just a service job. You know, I'm not bringing you ranch, but I'm still serving you. You know, I was trained initially through a kind of a sales trainer system where we were trained to only focus on meeting with clients over listings and spend all the time working on getting new listings

15:51 And which is great, but on one hand it's a competitive business. On the other hand, it's not very fulfilling because then you just you feel like a hired gun versus to use the words that you just used that your our job is to solve people's problems. And I want people to call me with problems that I solve for them or I want to connect them to people like you who solve the problem without even coming back to me. So they go, "Wow, I had a problem and you, Bill, your team solved it. Charity did a great job. Thank you so much for introducing me." Wow. That's what we want to do. We want to and I think ultimately that's how we get paid. We get paid not to get people to sign and write us a check. We get paid to solve a problem for which they write us a check and sign paperwork.

16:29 Yeah. Yeah. I think you I think you really hit that right in the head. So that the other part I would say is for those who are watching this, real estate agents are often scared to get involved in probate because they'll say I don't have a deep Rolodex of all the services. And I think one thing we've covered here today is a you want to have vendors who have other vendors. Charity in escrow has other vendors and B I think that if you commit to solving the problem that's the key you'll find you'll find the vendor if you put the time in on it. Meaning, you know, people say, "Well, I don't really know anybody who does X." And I'll say, "Okay, you don't know anybody who'll do a junk out." Let's say, "If I paid you a million dollars to have the house cleaned up by the end of the day, could you get it done?" Well, yeah, of course. What would you do? Oh, I do this. I do that. Great. Just do that. You don't get a million dollars, you'll get $25,000. You'll get $10,000. But that's what we get paid to do is to solve those problems. And I think what strikes me about you is your attitude of course that's what we do. You're like a I don't want to say old time escrow officer because that makes you sound old, but you are kind of the generation that's dying out of escrow officers. The other ones are trying to be so efficient with all the AI and technology and all this. They don't touch the paperwork. They don't talk to the customers.

17:39 But I think the old school escrow officers that I worked with, grew up in with loved the problems and solved them. That's how they created their following. Well, you know, one of the things I did as I started to build my book of business many years ago, I went with one of our marketing reps and we went to this mixer and I saw the way she went around the room and she connected with people and she found people who each had a want or need that connected with each other. And when you can help somebody solve a problem, you're building a relationship. We're not in the business to do one deal. I can do an escrow deal and never see somebody again, but that's not the point of this. The point of this is to find people that we trust that are partners and hopefully long-term partners in whatever the different kinds of business that we're doing. And as a real estate agent, if you want to do probate, I think it's great to get out there, meet some contractors. This builds your Rolodex, not just for probate, but what about the first-time home buyer who needs to put an addition because they get a new baby or providing a service will allow you to retain clientele as well. It gives you another reason to reach out to somebody. Hey, just so you know, I know you bought your house last year. If you need this, I've met this great person who does this. It's building relationships. I am not in this business for the one escrow that I'm doing. I'm in this business for relationships. And those relationships will mean I don't necessarily need to worry about every counting the escrows that come in because I'm working on solid relationships. And it makes it easier when you're accountable with people as well. You know, when we work together a lot, I'm gonna figure out another way to help. If we've come up against a rock, well, how do we get over that rock? We do it together.

19:23 So, let's talk about the market overall. Your business is in Beverly Hills, but like me, your business is the greater Los Angeles area, I would imagine. And you know nationally I think that when I look at statistics it sounds like the market softening nationally after some tre tremendous run up but here in our area the unit counts way down for a lot of reasons but the sales prices have gone up keeping the sales about the same

19:53 And it doesn't seem like it's slowing down here now maybe because we just burned 15,000 houses for inventory so the prices can't go down. So you're a businesswoman. How do you see business now in terms of the market and what are you planning on for the next year and 5 years based on what you see?

20:10 What I'm seeing right now is I'm seeing a lot of listings. I do a lot of pre-escrows for my clients and I've got a lot in my pipeline. I am not seeing as many contracts come in. So I've got a lot of lot in my pipeline, but we're not seeing the contracts right. I still think buyers are on the market or are sitting on the edge a little bit waiting to see what changes. We've had a lot politically with our fires, a lot of changes. I think people aren't 100% comfortable yet with whatever decision they're going to go. I think people still think rates are going to come down. I don't think we're going to see this massive drop like people want. I also think sellers are starting to realize as much as their homes were worth a certain dollar amount, there might have to be a slight adjustment if you don't want it to sit on the market as long as a lot of things are. We are not writing contracts in two weeks on most properties. Things are sitting longer and we're in the beginning of an adjustment where we now have more buyers right now than what we have sellers

21:10 And sellers are going to have to adjust slightly and then I think you'll see inventory start moving and then I think we'll see a really good like what I call [unclear] effect where things are going to get pretty you know systematic in their approach you know

21:25 So many on so many off like that what we're going to do long term I don't know I So with probate, I mean without being morose, we are having our baby boomers who are starting to age more so and we are going to start seeing a lot more with probate files. Not everybody we see this a lot. Families don't always get along. Families don't always agree. So even with Yeah. Odd, isn't it weird how it works?

21:57 Yeah. Crazy, you know. So we are even with people who have trust and stuff not everything is going to be in an agreement. So I think that the probate is just little bit I think we are going to start seeing a lot more probate transactions. I think as people who do them and as people who don't do them, we need to be educated because they're going to come across our desk. I remember the first probate I did, I was assisting an escrow officer and it was like speaking another language the first one I did and there were going to be escrow officers who go out there and get them and don't know how to handle it. We never want to say what we can't do, you know, because then that's, you know,

22:38 Eliminating business, but we also don't want to do a bad job either. So it's become educated with the things that you don't know yet. That way at least you can best serve your clients. Again, it's about service. But

22:50 So I love like to write a thesis by you. My thesis is that the business that we do is going to inherently get more complicated as technology improves. What do I mean by that? So there was a time when I was young McDonald's was studied by experts in business and their strength was they only made hamburgers, cheeseburgers, fries and shakes. That was it.

23:15 And that made and their success was the focus on a small menu. The customers over time though demanded more and so they started offering coffee and breakfast and this and that to what their offering is today. And like that, I think in real estate, there was a time when people could focus on a fairly narrow group of types of transactions. And I remember Realtors® who would say, "I don't do probates." They just refer them out to other people. But I think probates are just another type of complicated transaction.

23:46 The easy ones are being done by other people. The competition there is very fierce. But as soon as there's a hiccup, those agents don't know what to do with it and it falls apart. Like they list the property and get an escrow to find out, oh my gosh, the title was from grandma and she's this and that and there never was probated. I can't close the escrow and the thing falls apart and then that person calls attorney who calls me and we sell the house. But that's not because I specialize in probate. It's because I take on tougher transactions where other agents kind of give up on it. So the moral of that story from where I sit is all of us need to think about broadening our product menu. Like in my case, I used to only do residential. Now I do non-residential because the same probate case that had a couple houses had some lots and had a you know commercial property and had a multif family property. Why would I not I do all the hard work on the probate work. Why wouldn't I do the sale which is relatively speaking easier? Okay. So your thoughts on the thesis that in your business for example I think you're right there'll be more probates because people are getting older. But I would say also just the transactions are getting more tough. The title companies can find more defects that require more fixing. The fixing is more difficult because there's more technology to challenge the fixes in court. And that's why if we focus on solving those problems, our business will be more like that. But that's where the market's headed to.

25:06 No, absolutely. I think people need to at least know what it is because you don't know that you're in trouble until it's too late. So, the more you can educate yourself, there are times it's like, I don't even think I want to take on this because I can already see the red flags and they're starting to pile up. So, making smarter choices, I think I do still think if you're out looking for business, it is important to stay in a reasonable lane. I think if probate is your thing then like you divert it and you do commercial. You could even potentially do businesses because businesses end up in probate as well for people who own businesses. So I think it's you know it's not just the commercial, it's not just the residential. You can do business too. But I think if probate's really what you know, I think

26:00 It's important to not necessarily stay within that niche, but it's good to grow because moving on to try something else, especially I'm talking like newer agents who

26:13 Want to do all types of transactions, we have to be very careful of that because it only takes one mess up to really like blow a reputation and that's really important. And you better have a good relationship with your customer that you're doing this first couple deals on. I got lucky a customer who said, "Bill, I want you to do it. I don't want you to defer it to somebody else. I trust you. You'll figure it out. You'll learn. If you make a mistake, I'll be okay with you and really help me get through the first non first few." Okay. So, let's also talk about the business of real estate brokerage because you must deal with people with all types of brokers. You

26:47 Those are your customers and regulars, those that are not small independents to large corporations. It just feels like the industry is broken. I mean, now it doesn't really affect my business personally in the sense that it doesn't affect my ability to, you know, list a property, sell property. I still get good service from my brokerage team, but it just seems the industry, the companies are so stressed that the agents are struggling for business. They're not getting good direction on helping their build their business. There just feels like a I don't know, you tell me. I feel this sense of when I talk to other agents a sense of stress that just isn't healthy in the business in the industry. What do you see?

27:28 No, it's true. We have a market that shifted a lot and there's been a lot of change in the industry and not just with the NAR lawsuit where that changed commissions but different companies and I'm just throwing names out there not that anyone particular but you know Redfin had an industry model and that industry model has changed a lot and then we have older brokerages like Coldwell Banker and Keller Williams which have a particular broker model. Now, we're seeing broker models where the agent doesn't pay hardly anything to the brokerage. It's just a very small flat fee, but then the agents are out to really figure out everything on their own. And I think I think people are trying to make packages to fit everybody's needs. And realistically, we all have very individual needs. What I need as an escrow officer and what I want my company to provide me is different than the escrow officer down the street. And I think the same thing is true of a real estate agent. Some real estate agents really want that guidance of a team. Some agents want to be left alone and to do it all themselves. And I think because there's such a big influx of differences of what people want now because the sky's is the limit as far as what we can have and build. I think you're seeing brokerages kind of tail spin with how do we service the needs and then how do we build a lot of money on it and then we have a lot of people who are talking about ancillary services escrow companies title companies lots of brokerages now are focusing on those things and not so much on their own agents as well so it's really interesting how the dynamic of what a brokerage really does for their agents has changed a lot I don't know what's good and bad. I've never been a real estate agent, but I could see feeling like a tail spin as an agent trying to figure out even where to go, who has my best interest.

29:23 How could it go wrong? Brokerages opening their own escrows and title companies because they can't make money in real estate. So, I know let's do this other business. How can that possibly go wrong? I think the thing that I also notice is that while agents all especially new ones all tell me they want an office, they want leadership, they want structure, they also all want 100% of the commission. I try to explain to them those two don't coexist. You either, you know, and I always tell people when you start, find the best services you can and invest in yourself and look at that as like going to college. You have to pay tuition or you pay reduced tuition or maybe you have a scholarship, but you don't you don't get paid while you go to college typically. And the same in real estate, you better learn the business otherwise. And every agent, well, I watch YouTube videos. I do this. Well, that's the problem. It's not and they just don't know what they don't know. It's just staggering to me. I should have been I should be out of this business. I should have been out of this business. I had a retirement plan to be out at six a year ago.

30:22 Me too. At 60 I would have planned and I'm able to retire at 65 as I financially could. But you know, I'm making really good money and I've structured to where it works well. But the other part of it is the new agents are all just for the most part 90% are so weak and they just don't have they're not in a system that gets them what they need. I don't know. Are there ever going to be days back where these where there's offices where agents go and get training and work with brokers face to face and work with other agents? I don't I don't see that happening. It's just not happening.

30:54 You know, I think good and I met Dale and I met your rep. I'm sorry to interrup I just feel passion about this because I met Dale at like a little mixture thing and you see people are so hungry for that interaction. I'm not I'm married. I have a my daughter's nearby, my two grandkids. I see plenty of people. I don't need you interaction. I know what I'm doing in real estate, you know, but I see agents are starved for information, for help, for support, for encouragement, for emotional support, and they're just not getting it.

31:25 Yeah, it's definitely a complaint that I've heard more than once from agents that I work with. I think we're also in a really interesting time where how we communicate has really changed. And it started before COVID, so it's not a COVID issue, but I think COVID boosted it like turbo where we see shows things like Million Dollar Listing and shows like that which make real estate look really fancy. I've met a few young kids who want to be agents cuz they want to be a luxury agent not knowing what that really means. I know it looks beautiful on TV but that's not any of it. And I think there's a very unrealistic sense

32:08 Of what it really takes, the grind that it really takes to be a real estate agent and to be good. And I also think people think that you close 10 or 15 deals a year without doing anything. And that's not the reality of what the real numbers are, especially for an average agent. You know, when you look at production, it's just there is a disconnect on what it really takes. And

32:33 And I also I hate to say this because I'm kind of in the middle of the boomers and the millennials, but how people work is much different. You know, the ability to grind. And I think a lot of times people think things just come easy and you don't have to work as hard as you do for it. And I think a lot of people have lost that ability to grind. And I think looking at these TV shows that make everything look so easy just makes it look like, oh, I just make a few phone calls, take somebody out to lunch, and then we've got a deal. And it's just not like that. It is roll up your sleeves and really get to work. And there's a disconnect between what it really takes and what people think it takes.

33:17 I think you're so right. I think that disconnect is so real. You know, I have people all the time who ask like what I do, like they want to build a business similar to mine. And so I say, "Okay, well, here's what I do." And I tell them, and they'll say to me, "Well, that's a lot of work." Well, yeah. I mean, duh. Now, I don't work a lot of hours anymore. I'm older now and I have other interests and so I have a very structured day. But when I work, I work.

33:42 And that's the key thing. Whereas, I'll talk to people today who are going to the gym at 10:30 and I know that means they just rolled out of bed. You don't go to work for 4 hours then go to the gym at 10:30. You wake up at 10:15 and go to the gym at 10:30 and by the time you're done it's lunch and you go out to lunch with somebody and that's not work. I don't know what that is but that's now it might be HGTV what those guys do. I know some of those guys I've done deals with several of those people. They work hard. They are grinding on it. Now you'll see that on the TV show but they are serious as a heart attack. Guys who I don't want to name names cuz I don't want to embarrass somebody but you know they look frivolous and sometimes in television they are anything but man they're like stone killers

34:24 It is unrealistic what they show on TV and what they do and let's be honest in a luxury market they're not even talking about the amount of money that gets spent when we're talking just as an example staging a house staging an average three-bedroom, two-bath house and then staging somebody's luxury that's a lot of money out front. Not every stager gets paid at closing. I pay very few stagers at closing and the ones that I do generally are my probate stagers. It's not my regular transactions. You know, there's a lot of money that gets spent and it looks so easy on TV and it's just not. And it's not that the people aren't telling the truth, but it's not the real story. You know, it's much harder than it looks.

35:11 And people, you know, oft say, well, do you do these kind of properties? And I'd say, well, I could do it. It's just I don't do it's a lot of to get that business is a lot of work and the way they it's sold in this market and it all seems to me that most people who list in that luxury world every listing is really an advertisement for the next listing where my case my probates are just I'm just trying to sell the probate for the state. I don't ever use a listing to get another listing. I don't have to at this stage of my career. If I was younger I would I still would. But in the luxury market you have to use that listing as your billboard. Otherwise, that's the that's the whole marketing program, right? Is having a listing and selling it.

35:46 Yeah. Yeah. You have to have the big numbers to get the big numbers. It's different when you're talking with I don't want to say a normal market, but a regular traditional home of an average person. There's not all this, you know, you don't need it to be told to everybody because you're just trying to trying to, you know, help a buyer, help a seller. It's much different when we're talking high-end luxury, but that's what's on TV. They're not showing shows for the kind of average transactions that happen. And even LA is a much different beast than if we're talking about, you know, Phoenix, Arizona, if we're talking about, you know, places in Tennessee. Like, business is not what they show on TV. It's so completely unrealistic.

36:35 Right. Right. But that's what everybody looks to and you're like, "Oh, I think I want to be a real estate agent." Yeah, I do. I love what I do. I But I don't do that. That is a whole another

36:47 I you know, you have to commit yourself to it. You have to That's a whole business. And it's a competitive niche. A lot of people do. A lot of people who do it for free. A lot of people think it's fun to sell luxury homes. So now you're competing with people who will do it and make no money. I can't afford to do that. I need a business where I can make a profit and provide for my family and my community. So, I've been putting out this area of questions for a while here, as we kind of move towards wrapping up. Working with attorneys. So, there are some great ones and there are some that are not so great.

37:18 And often times, you mentioned how important the communication is. I find sometimes that I'd be very careful how I communicate with attorneys. I make sure they feel I that I make sure that they feel like they're in charge and they feel like they're telling me what to do when I'm really kind of trying to get them to do something that they haven't thought of yet or whatever. So, talk a little bit about and you also must give instructions to your staff or when you deal with attorneys kind of what are some of the best practices on how you can be effective in communicating with people who are really experts in certain areas but maybe not experts in the activity that you're working on. So, it's hard because I will say this with probate, you know, there are times when the agent is the one who's really leading and guiding the transaction. There are times when it's the administrator and then there are times that it's the attorney and sometimes it's all three. So, I get all of those kind of co-mingled together. The attorneys know their law, but I will say, especially in a title clearance, when we're trying to get title insurance, just because something is a legal document that title can accept, it doesn't mean that they're willing to insure it. And having that really hard conversation, it just takes directness. Especially with attorneys, I find you have to speak as you know what you're talking about. You cannot be wishywashy,

38:34 Right? Because I mean, in doing this, as long as I have, I know what the title's willing to take and what they're willing not to. And it's very easy, especially title's probably my biggest issue that we have when we're cleaning things up and where I get most of my communication with attorneys and stuff. And you know being that go-between. You know, you need this affidavit for this reason because title is issuing a policy that nobody else has a claim. And just because maybe it's not legally needed doesn't mean title's going to issue that title policy. And a title policy and you know recording a deed are two very different things.

39:13 You're so right. You know, I've had attorney say, "Well, we don't need to do a notice of proposed action." I said, "Well, I agree with you legally, but this house company's requiring it. So, we have two choices. We can either do it or I can shop for another title company that might not need it. And I have on occasion gone to different title companies and taken the same case and got them to waive certain things.

39:31 As I always say to title companies, it's title insurance. It's not it's not that you're doing title guarantee. You're insuring it against reasonable odds. You don't get a guarantee or else, you know, we would need title insurance. It would be necessary if we could if we could read the law and figure it out. So, but I do think that, you're 100% right that, talking to them in a way that is respectful and saying, "I appreciate it's not required by law.

39:57 I'm glad to waive it, but I'm going to waive it. The title company gave me a magic wand. I would love one." Yeah. And sometimes it's nice to be able to defer that. I completely understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, this is not my requirement. But I have done most of my business the whole time I've been doing escrow is what can I do to help you? So, let's creatively come up with it. If people believe that you truly are on their side to help them, they will understand when you can't because you've tried with whatever it is. And I think I think that's the approach that I take. It's grace. It's kindness. And it's letting people know I'm here to help. What can we do to creatively come up with maybe we can't get a document that we really need. So what is our roundabout and if you're part of the team to fix it, they're not going to give you as much grief if you just say no. Sorry, it is what it is. And while that may really be the right answer, you know, sometimes we like to take our pills with a little bit of spoonful of sugar. And you know, I just think it's important.

41:03 I try to be nice. You know, I had a case where a top company wouldn't insure something that I knew they should have been able to. And this is a kind of obscure case, but I done my research and I think sometimes some of these companies, they're high volume and they just don't spend the time to really get into it.

41:20 And so I actually went to another company, got them to approve it before we canceled. I called the rep. Hey, we're going to cancel these. What? I need to have a call with you and the underwriter and the underwriter was explaining why the other company was taking a reasonable risk. And I said to him, be honest, I don't really care. My job is to sell the house. If the buyer gets title insurance and the title company is not financially viable, and they're talking about one of the major title companies, that's not my problem. I gave them title insurance. That's all I'm obligated to do. And I think sometimes that we get so caught up in our way of doing things that we have to be like you talk about being the solution orient. I think it's really important to be that. So, that said, do you have a particular title rep or company that you like to give a shout out to or is it

42:01 Yeah, I have I have I have a lot of different title relationships. Our company, full disclosure, is actually owned by one of the larger title companies, although I'm still an independent escrow company. Our company parent company is First American. And interestingly enough, I've done most of my business with First American even when I didn't work at a First American company. But I also do a ton of work with Lauren Goldman who is at Fidelity Title. He's one of my reps that I've worked with for many years, you know, and we work with Zoe Schulman at WFG. And the thing that I will say with title is there are so many different title companies. Some title companies are direct insurers like the First American and the Fidelities. They issue their own insurance policies, but there's lots of smaller title companies that aren't the ones who are actually the one issuing the title policy. It's a different insurer who's issuing it. So, sometimes their requirements are not even really their requirements, but it's a it's a national underwriter who has different requirements and it makes it really hard because the other thing that I see with title is if they've been bit by something, they're way more cautious of it. Yes. So even if it makes sense to one company, it doesn't to the other. Sometimes it doesn't to the other because there's been an issue. And I learned this firsthand. I was doing a transaction and we had a 45-year-old private party loan that was super old.

43:26 And at that time, and I would say this is probably five or six years ago, the industry standard is if the loan was more than 30 years old, they allowed it to drop off. Well, what I heard is one of the national title companies took a huge hit because the loan was 40, 50 years old and the person had died and the estate came back and sued for all the back and there was no proof as to if it was paid or not. So, the title company took a huge hit. So, they don't drop off 30-year-old private notes anymore. Some of the companies go back 80 years because from what I heard and again this is just you know from what somebody said it was over a million dollar loss because of that accrued interest over you know 30 40 years. So the liability is whatever that title company's willing to do and one may be willing to do it cuz they've never taken a loss like that. Whereas the person who wrote that check's like, "No, we're not doing that this time. We learned our lesson." And it's very hard because you don't know what title company's seen what. And you may open an escrow or a title and think that it's easy and something really complicated comes up at the end that maybe a year ago wasn't even a problem, but since it has been. Well, I think it's also where having a good reputation helps because I've had title companies ask me questions. You know, if they think I'm trying to push through something that I know is fraudulent, they're going to put the brakes on it. But sometimes, how do you know how do you get this deal? Who's the lender? Who's this? Who's that? Okay.

44:57 You know, based on all that, we'll go ahead and insure or we'll bond around it. There's some sort of a fee for it. Great. We'll bond around it and we get there. You mentioned first American. I have to tell you, I was in right out of college. I worked at huge aircraft company. I was a great softball player. I was a left-handed power hitter. I played on four different teams at once. And First Americans sponsored a couple teams and they were like the competitors and we were every league I was in, they were like the top team and we're beating them. And so this day I hate the company named [unclear] because of that though. They're a great company. They're great. So when I think of first American title based in Santa Ana, great company. When I see the [unclear] logo on a guy's baseball uniform chest, I think I hate them. So

45:36 They're your enemy instantly. It's like decades later. I still hold hardly there's grief against these guys that play softball with me. Probably some nice real estate agent, you know, I try to do business with or something. So,

45:45 Title is like escrow. It's relationship. I have relationships with title officers that I've worked with for, you know, 15 and 20 years. And when you have that relationship, when you say, "Listen, I know this as fact because this reason. I don't have this piece of paper that we need, but I'll make sure you get it." sometimes that's enough for them to say, "Okay, we'll let it go." Whereas when you're going with somebody who you don't have a relationship with, it's like I'm nobody important to them. So like with you know the attorneys that you work with real estate agents that you work with, title and escrow, relationships matter. And the more you build on those relationships, you can work through the difficult things and really problem solve because you've just got that one extra, you know, get out of jail free card that you can pull out at a moment that you need it.

46:40 Well, speaking of relationships, you know, ours is relatively new. We started we're but we've done you've done a great job for us so far. I'm really looking forward to good things. I really appreciate you being on the podcast today to share. I know you have a tremendous experience and breath of knowledge because I've worked with it even this first transaction. So, thank you so much for sharing with us today. For somebody, anybody who's interested in getting more with charity as far as getting help on your escrows, you can reach out to her. She's at Granite Escrow and she's actually the branch manager of the Beverly Hills office. There's a picture of Dale who actually kind of a matchmaker that put us together, but he's their account executive and there's her LinkedIn as well. Branch manager, senior escrow officer. And then as far as her contact info, we'll put that in the banner down below. And she actually gives her cell phone number. So don't give that out unless you're serious about doing business with her. And then her email address,

47:31 Call her with problems. She likes to, you know, she's old school. I have a client and his hashtag for me is #charityforclarity. Whatever question he has, he's a lender. Whatever question he has, he calls me. Sometimes I'm on speaker phone with an agent who has a question, somebody that I've never worked with before. If we can help people, we can help people. And it's just making another connection. So, reach out. I'm on social media. You can't miss me. All of my profiles are open. I'd love to help whatever anybody needs. And even if it's just a phone call and a quick question.

48:02 Well, you did a great job so far with us. I really appreciate it. Looking forward to doing more with you as well. And this one, we're trying to get escrow here real. We're in escrow. Trying to get this one closed. So, we'll see how that all works out. Charity, thank you for your time today. Have a great week and we'll talk soon.

48:13 We might be talking on this deal. I think I have to get back to you tomorrow, Friday anyhow, but we'll talk soon. I'm available. Okay. And for the and for Thank you. And for the rest of you, this is Probate Weekly. We get together every week, usually with attorneys, but vendors in this case to help us be more successful with our customers, give better service. And there's an escrow officer. We've talked with title companies and other vendors as well. If you like this episode, give me some comments. If you don't like it as well, if there's somebody you think I should be interviewing, feel free to put that in the comments as well. Subscribe if appropriate for you or not. I'm at Bill Gross Probate on social media. As always, make today your best day ever. Thank you so much.