Elevating the Reverse Mortgage Experience, with Nathan Johnson of Mutual of Omaha Mortgage

0:02 When I launched this podcast a little over a year ago, my goal was to find the top originators in the industry, the most forward thinkers, the most serious about reverse mortgage as opposed to just mortgages. Had a chance to meet last year and had on the podcast at the time we recorded had some technical difficulties. Nathan Johnson with one of the largest companies, Mutual of Omaha's reverse mortgage company. And really one of the professionals on I think elevating the standards of what people expect. Nathan, thank you for coming back to us on the Reverse Mortgage Podcast.

0:32 Oh, happy to be here, Bill. Thanks for having me. So, good to be. What one of the questions I have I know I launched this with a thesis that we should be doing 10 times reverse mortgages as we are as an industry.

0:43 Yes. Say we, I'm a real estate broker. I don't do reverse mortgages or get involved financially, but I have clients who need them and I have neighbors who need them. And we should be doing 10 times as many. One question is who's going to do them? The people in it now or the new people coming in? Talk about your journey. How did you end up being reverse mortgage specialist as opposed to just a mortgage lender who happens to also do reverse mortgages?

1:05 Yeah, so I entered the space in 2002 as starting up a small little rinky-dink mortgage company hired me and they said, "Hey, there's this product called a reverse mortgage." I mean, I didn't know what a what a mortgage was, let alone I had never even been in the business of mortgage at all. But they interviewed me and they hired me and what I started to notice right away was that I felt like I got suckered into this thing. I would tell people what I did and as I'm learning, you know, the room would vacate like, you know, I just said I have a bomb or something.

1:44 And so I couldn't figure out what was happening and so I decided, "Well, I need to do some research here before I go out. I want to have some tools cuz I felt like it was a good tool the more I looked at it, but I started studying it and I realized there's you know, there was a quite a bit of history in the program. So my goal right at that point was really help educate people that the past really has shaded a lot of what people think about it. And there has been you know, I mean the product came into law I was really signed into law in 1988, but Ronald Reagan got credit for it in 1987 designing this unique tool. And so a lot of people think of it as just mortgage, but it actually has three is kind of kind of three separate pieces to it that all blend together and make it today's reverse mortgage. And so I had to really find my way to educate clients about it. I educate you know, other Realtors® like yourself, financial advisors, CPAs, and a lot of times the general public. And there's just a lot of fear about it.

2:48 Yeah. And so that's been kind of my journey is to just is to really choose to be an educator first and a strategist second, but I found that it having a different conversation with clients around home wealth is very challenging, as you know. I mean, you're in you know, in a lot of ways you help build clients home wealth by getting the right home in the right location. What people fear a lot is number one making a mistake. Number two, they've may have misused the home asset in the past. But it also acts very differently. It's not just like a like a 401K or an IRA or a mutual fund. It really behaves different because it's a living asset. And so we have to kind of

3:37 When we approach clients, my encouragement always is to say, "Hey, we're there's a story here we have to honor with every client." And if we don't honor part of that, like how do they see their home? What do they what do they view it as today versus what it was in the past. So, that's what I do. I really I kind of focus on the education piece. And so, my journey took me from there. I actually took a break in the industry for about 6 years and got back in 2017. And I had noticed, like you, I was expecting, "Wow, everyone's going to be a fan of reverse again."

4:12 Right. And the truth was that it still has it shifted a little bit. I think Wade Pfau's book helped a lot kind of move it more into conversations, but I am still very surprised we don't have 10 times the amount of the reverses. So, I really think it's a it's a helpful financial tool.

4:31 And I think the only issue is you're really the education to overcome what I call the stink of the past and the stink of the present.

4:39 Yes. The stink of the past, I was a mortgage originator up until 20 years ago. I did mortgages. When the reverse came out, I did a couple. I thought it was an amazing product. There were some gaping problems with it.

4:52 Yes. And so, I moved out of that into full-time real estate. But the product got tremendously changed. And as a result, there are people who think of the stink of the past, back when it was a loan of last resort.

5:05 Yes. And so many people got scammed. That now the product doesn't resemble that because of the restrictions and problems. So, talk a little bit, I know you position yourself as a reverse mortgage advisor as opposed to just an originator. Talk a bit about your role as an advisor that can help people, I think, overcome that stigma and just analyze and say, "Does this make sense for me or not?" And for some people, the answer is no. But I believe for a lot of people who are missing out, the answer should be yes.

5:32 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I realized that a lot of people come with this understanding of what they've heard. So, I always I always tell people, "Let's just Let's just really be super transparent here. What do you really think?" So, when clients come in, you know, I really try to encourage transparency. And I'll even ask them, you know, if you were to ask 10 people on the street today what they thought of a reverse, three of them might throw something at you. Two of them might leave and never want to talk to you again. There might be a, you know, a handful that say, "Hey, yeah, it helped a few people." But they're still We still haven't seen the public opinion really shift. And I think there's really three main reasons why. My The three main reasons is really overcoming the past with education, understanding how the tool was actually built. A lot of people when they talk about today's reverse mortgage, all they're doing is sort of saying, "Well, you can get rid of a mortgage payment or you can get some money out of your house." These are all very simplistic ways that certainly that does help a little bit, but what we're not doing is we're not having the conversation around housing wealth from the beginning and how this is different. And a lot of folks that I realize when I when I run into other lenders that are sort of talking to clients and then I end up talking with them, I ask them, "What have What have you learned so far?" And it's shocking to me how many people do not educate about 80% of what is really important to know. They just kind of share the real highlights. And so, I think a full education is important. I also think the relationship that you see yourself as with a client is really important. So, if you're if you're going to advise on housing wealth, you also have to be able to follow that up with post meeting post closing meetings that matter, right? So, it's not just I got the client, I got the loan, see you later. I have I have regular what I call annual reviews

7:38 With clients. And to me, it's more important even those follow-up meetings. Had a lady yesterday who had just kind of found she was bewildered. She'd had a reverse for several years. We didn't we didn't we basically just did a review of here's how this has helped you. Here's how much money you have in your line of credit. By the end of the meeting, she had complete peace. And she had been concerned cuz she kind of got in her own little bubble and she was you know, thinking this and thinking all these bad thoughts and I said, "Listen, this is never going to hurt you. It's going to help you." And that follow-up meeting was really big. So, those are the two things I would say. Understanding the structure of the HECM, also understanding that it requires an after an a post meeting or an annual review with clients. And then I would also say you really have to act as an advisor. The third thing is really truly help them see how the program will make a difference. And for most people, it's a monthly it's a monthly income issue, right? We're trying to create more liquidity and tax-free liquidity, you know, the money that we keep, not just the money that we've made in our investments. It's really about how we how we make that last. And so, I've even developed a class with a local budget guy called Make Your Money Last. And it's been a phenomenal class. A lot of great feedback from it, but it's really about that very thing, right? How do we make money last when we're our aging population is certainly exceeding a lot of expectations.

9:18 You know, you mentioned in the tools, the second one being post-closing meetings. I think that's the difference between creating a client and just doing a transaction. Yeah. And it also addresses kind of the second stink. The first one being the past product that's no longer real. All right. The second stink, I think, is the fear of losing the house to the lender.

9:40 Yes. There are some alternative nichey niche products that do, in fact, have the lender take control of the property. Not reverse mortgages, but there's something else.

9:49 Yep. And and the stories of that are bad. There are old reverse mortgages that were done that people had problems with. And then there's a servicing issues. When somebody passes,

10:00 Yes. Not knowing what to do, who to talk to. Yep. And that's where I got involved. There's so many would parents pass, and the kids have the property. One's living in the house, doesn't tell anybody, and there's a foreclosure that comes across.

10:11 Yes. And yet, the this program has built into it the annual review. I see most of the mortgages have it built in annual review. With the customer and the servicer, to me that seems like the perfect opportunity for an original like you to say, "We should be touching base once a year to analyze your equity, look at your balance, see who's involved in your life that we should make sure we share this information with." So, talk a bit about how you use that in order to build the relationship and the confidence in customers so they feel You mentioned how good she felt.

10:41 Yes. Just one. How do you build this in your business so that people do this regularly? Yeah. So, a little bit of the process that I've found is really mimicking a lot of financial advisors. So, when a financial advisor is reviewing their client port- portfolios or profiles, wherever whatever they have invested, number one, they want to know how do all these things interlink, right? How do all these pieces? So, I will have them have a I have a very simple called a quick budget form that I require them to fill out. The budget form's going to have very simple things like what are your housing expenses, and then what is your income? How much is that guaranteed income? How much is that coming from required minimum distributions? Is there annuity income? I want to know all those pieces. So, when we look at that, plus I want a most recent statement of theirs. I have a couple tools that I'll plug that data into and we'll be able to look at and say, "Okay, how do we How do we make your money last, right?" And some clients will come to me and say, "Well, you know, I Boy, I spent it on something I wasn't sure that was a good idea." And I said, "Okay, that's all right. Let's just move from here. Let's not go into shame. Let's not go into Right?" Or it may be we need to have the financial advisor in this meeting because maybe they're drawing too much from their required minimum distributions and they're creating a tax issue, right? We don't want to do that. We want to keep the taxes in the lowest bracket possible. And so, sometimes drawing from the HELOC at the right time might be the right the right idea. So, it's not just held in a bubble. Sometimes I'll depending on the client, if they want to involve the financial advisor, I think it's a great idea. Sometimes they'll bring family members, right? Because family's trying to figure this out for them, too. But to me, that meeting and it doesn't have to be very long, but you do have to prep for it. And so, understanding the data behind it and then also seeing, "Okay, what are some future projections? What are you thinking about

12:44 The home?" another really big thing, Bill, and you'll know this, too, is that the home there's such thing as the difference between a home and a house, right? And so, the home and becomes when you're older, the home becomes more of utilitarian than it does necessarily memories. Now, there's still memories involved, but we have to keep asking the question, "Is the home fitting your mobility needs? Is there sustainability here?" Right? Because if they've had a recent fall or they're in a tri-level with a basement like me, it's a stair stepper, right? That's just They might have some issues with mobility. Then they need to contact their real estate agent like you and say, "Okay, maybe it's time to downsize." it might be time to look at a different solution." And so, those are really important concepts and I do encourage financial advisors to have that same conversation, right? Do you know what your client's home looks like?

13:42 Right. It may be too big. They don't want to maintain it anymore, right? So, these are all the different topics plus others. I mean, there's sometimes it's health issues, right? We're talking about and then I have a whole host of people that I refer out that can help with Medicare, Medicaid questions, housing, mobility, all that stuff. So, yeah.

14:02 You have these discussions myself, you know, I'm 67, my wife's same age, and we both have some health issues. Fortunately, we're both in good health today, but like, you know, a month ago I sprained my knee. I'm hobbling upstairs. I'm thinking

14:15 Yeah. How much longer is a house with upstairs bedroom? It's nice, it's private, it's Right. But when does getting upstairs become a problem? Not today, thank

14:25 God. But at some point, I mean, there is a day and time. I don't know what that is. Though admitting your mortality is tough to do as well. So, those are those are some tough conversations.

14:35 Yeah. Let's talk about the reverse mortgage as a as a product. What are the most common misconceptions people have? You do your best to educate, but I'm sure walking in, they have some thoughts or in the midst of it they throw out something. What are the most common misconceptions that you see consumers have or their professionals have when you talk about the product?

14:56 Yeah, great question. I would say number one is there's still this myth about losing the home to the bank. And if you were again, if you would ask 10 people on the street, they would they would basically say, "Yeah, I don't I don't want to do that. I don't want to lose my home.

15:12 Right. Or I don't want the bank to get my home." Or they might say something a little different, which is the same thing, "I want my kids to get my home." Right? I don't want the bank to get it, I want my kids to get it. So, a lot of times we have to really kind of back up a bit and talk about where that fear comes from. Really from 1961 to right before '87, there was there was those what I call them predatory reverse mortgage loans back in the wild west days where there was no regulations at all. That's where there was a title exchange for cash and so you would end up giving your home to the bank. Now, there have been other stories of people going through foreclosures with a reverse and there has been in some areas of the country some upticks on that. The big problem with that isn't really a reverse problem. It's typically not paying property taxes, not keeping the home insured, or simply vacating the property, which sometimes has happened where folks will go into say a nursing home or assisted living and then they've just kind of abandoned the house, right? So, there's other ways that people can get into some issues with the reverse, but you have to work really hard to be in a position of foreclosure. Now, the other thing about Mutual of Omaha, which is really good, is we work with all of our all of our borrowers. We do not have on our books a single foreclosure since we've been in the business, which is huge thing to say. And some companies cannot say that.

16:43 Hold on a second. Say this one more time and say this as a full sentence with the name of the company cuz that's definitely worth emphasizing cuz that's not the case. I've not heard any company even pretend to say that. So, one more time, I'm sorry.

16:53 Yep, one more time. And this came from our last sales meeting we had in Las Vegas and basically our sales manager came out and said, "Listen, guys, we are always going to work with clients every single time. We are not going for foreclosure ever. So, if a client's in trouble, we're going to work with them. We're going to work with the families." And to me, that's that says a lot not only about Mutual, but it says a lot about how important the process is with clients that they need to know, "Hey, whatever happens, we're going to work with you, right?" You know, the communication with the lender is huge. That's paramount. You got to communicate with your lender. If you're not with Mutual of Omaha, you really do need to communicate day one and say, "Here's our intentions. Here's what we're working on." And I coach people through that because I do get calls all the time from people that have loans with other lenders, and I just say, "Okay, here's what we need to do. Here's the steps." and I try to keep it very simple, and I, you know, it That doesn't Obviously does not benefit me, but it does for the industry, and to me that's more important. So.

18:01 I think it does. So, let me just share with you, that's not the true the case with other lenders. The opposite The reason I got into this space as a marketing niche as a real estate broker, I said, "Well, why are you Why are you talking about mortgages, let alone reverse mortgages?" is every other lender, in my experience, because they don't have a brand Mutual of Omaha to protect, right? They don't want Mutual of Omaha does not want their customer to be foreclosed on by Mutual of Omaha. So, that's why they're going to work with people, whereas most lenders don't have that kind of name recognition to protect. And

18:34 I've heard originators say, "Well, built in the HECM is a is a 6-month period, and then there's built in two one or two exten- extensions of time." I said, "Well, if you read the note, I'm sorry, the deed, it says the lender may give you an extension. Doesn't say you get it. May give you." And in my experience here in California, they may, and pigs may fly, but they're never going to give you an extension. They'll tell you on the phone they will consider it. They're thinking about it. But in my experience as a professional, they immediately sell the servicing to a foreclosure-focused company, and it's a race to force you to pay it off or foreclose. And

19:13 And I get That's where I get in is try to help avoid those problems and say, "Well, if you don't have a probate, now you're not really in control. We need to get that fixed right away. If you don't have a trust, then we need to deal with that."

19:24 Yep. That's a big difference. So, I'd love to get the inside I mean, show me how I help you work customers out. But, I think that reflects a different philosophy than everybody else. It's not just a feature. It's really a kind of a come from on how you're approaching relationships with your customers.

19:39 Well, it The other thing about it, too, is there's this massive protection with the mortgage insurance premium that never requires a fire sale. And so, lenders that are kind of enforcing it and saying, "Well, we can foreclose, or we can do these things." Well, yeah, you can, but guess what? You have to also abide by the rules that are put together by FHA and HUD. And if you don't, we you're going to be reported. So, I actually encourage folks, if you're not getting the communication you want from your lender, go right to HUD and register a complaint. They will not be happy with that. Because HUD is the overall, you know, they can literally freeze people's license. They can They can remove their ability to do reverse mortgages. So, that's kind of my I don't lead with that, but if we're not getting the kind of results we need, then I do encourage folks, yep, go to HUD and file a report and complaint.

20:34 I don't think a month goes by that attorneys call me frustrated that they've contacted the lender and they can't get anybody to talk to. They've made a deal and the and the lender did not abide by it, or they're trying to make a payment to bring it current, and they're not getting any answers to how much to you know, to send and how much. By the time they get it, they have 3 days to get the check, and on the fourth day, they don't honor it. It's just It's just been a nightmare. So, and again, I think that's the power of working with a brand that has you know, a reputation to protect. And I you know, when I grew up, you know, you went to your local bank, and you brought my favorite banker, and he was a involved in your local business. And also I grew up there were large national brand banks, Bank of America, you know, other companies aren't around anymore, Great Western Bank, Home Savings America. They had brand reputations to protect and so while they did loans and people foreclosed, they also, you know, worked with customers to protect their brand image as well as work customers. Now that's not true, you know, all these lenders, they all went bankrupt. BofA is no longer the BofA. They were bought by North Carolina Bank and they used the name. Same with Wells Fargo, same with most of these banks. They all were bankrupted at some point. And so I feel like but Mutual of Omaha has been around stop since I was a kid watching Mutual of Omaha on TV in 1965 with like a Disney movie.

21:48 Wells Fargo's, yep. Exactly. So that brand it's funny you can laugh at it but in practice that makes a distinction in how you deal with customers. Now talk a little bit

21:59 Yeah. About how you deal as an organization. Are you in are you involved in management or supervision or is it just your business that you're involved with and you have colleagues at Mutual of Omaha?

22:10 I have a team that I we call the discovery team. And I'm slowly growing that. I what I do with that team is I really try to teach people how to become advisors.

22:22 I'm actually working on a been encouraged to write a small book or sort of a training module on this. So I'm going to be working on that this year in my spare time.

22:35 There's a lot I don't have a lot but when I do I get some ideas and I put them together. So I do like to teach people sort of here's and really for the betterment of the industry because we do need to have more market influence and I don't like the word market penetration and stuff like that. To me that's just very salesy.

22:54 There is kind of a new brand and a new movement within I believe within advising that is putting the client first and really being a true fiduciary and I feel like unless you can adopt that there's only a few states in the United States that require lenders to be fiduciaries. New Mexico is one of them. And I'm licensed there. So, it's very interesting that when you start bringing up that terminology, it's really what is in the best interest of the client. So, that kind of encourages the advisor conversation. So, back to your question, how do how does our process work? We have we do have within Mutual of Omaha, we have folks that are what we call consumer direct. And so, they'll call in off of maybe an advertisement, something like that. And then we also have retail guys like me. So, I have my own retail. This is my office in Colorado Springs and we have several quite a few throughout the country, hundreds throughout the country that just do what I do. And so, what's nice is we can also refer back and forth and I've had some help with a loan out in California before. Sometimes I'll take the loan on myself, but it gives us the freedom to be able to have the continuity with the client and continue to work with advisors cuz my a lot of my advisors have clients all over the country. And so, gladly I'm able to help them and keep the continuity going. So.

24:28 So, if you agree with me that or pretend to agree with me that we should be doing 10 times reverse mortgages that we are doing currently per capita. And we imagine it happened with let's say that happens next 5 years. You know, I want to publicize the opportunities. I want to get Realtors® involved in using the product. I'm going to get originators focused on the reverse mortgage, being better at it, delivering better, and want the companies to raise their standard service, be better at it. Would you what percentage if I gave you know, 10 times, what of the 10, how many more are to come from the current top originators getting more business? How much is going to come from new originators coming into the industry as reverse mortgage first? How many you think will be originators who do forward and other mortgages moving into the specialist mode? So, you have three buckets to put the 10 pieces of the puzzle in. How would you allocate that if you were to guess? And I again, it's a guess and you don't control it, but how do you see the industry changing in that regard?

25:24 Yeah, I feel that there is a great opportunity for traditional lenders, but what I would what I would and this is I've been with traditional lenders before and trying to help them shape their reverse mortgage division. And what I would say to traditional lenders that are doing both reverse and traditional is I would really work on training up a specialist that's going to have the bandwidth to take time with clients. That time can be long, right? I have a client I'm closing on Tuesday. We started a conversation about a year ago. And it's sort of it just kind of kept there and then eventually you know, even at the end of the year cuz I could have I could have pushed them a little bit to say, "Well, if you close be it before the end of the year, I might get more of a chance to make President's Club." But I decided, "No." I said, "I'm doing this because of what's good for them cuz I don't want them to be going crazy during Christmas time." And I said, "Guys, there's no reason to. We can take care of this in January." And they were so relieved. They just felt like that's one thing off their So, having that perspective, I think is really helpful with a lot of other things that I train about how to be an advisor, but what I would do is I would really work with those forward mortgage companies to go, "This is this is sort of becomes when the market shifts and rates come back and you're busy refinancing and purchasing the reverse mortgage becomes the red-headed stepchild. It literally gets thrown to the curb and I see I've seen it through so many different cycles in our market and it doesn't need to be that way. What my encouragement would always be is establish one person in that company to really be the specialist and find a way to share leads and profit and you can do that but and then for those that are truly saying this is what I want to do is I

27:26 Would say really make the commitment. Right? It is really hard to do both. I tried for about two and a half years I tried to do forward mortgages or traditional mortgages and reverse and it's such a different shift of conversation and it's just entirely it's like it's almost like I try to tell people it's like being a stock broker and being a holistic financial advisor. Right? We are we are in very different camps and it's highly transactional in the mortgage world it has to be but in the reverse world it's very different it's relational. These are people that are trusting you with really big financial decisions and it's so important we don't push them or rush them through it but we give them a plan and so my specific plan takes people from an intro meeting to discovery to a design and then to implementation. We're not jumping to implementation right away. That's not appropriate for a lot of folks. So that's where I would like to see the industry change and I feel like if we did that and we honored people where they're at help them become advocates cuz man if we have more advocates of this program will explode. There my clients I've had clients come in here and they've been referred and they're kind of they sit like this you know by the end of the meeting, they're huh, I mean there's curiosity.

28:50 That's the shift you want. Then they become clients and then they go and tell their friends. And so I've had one client bring me four closings because they're so impacted by what this did versus oh, I don't want to tell anyone I did a reverse mortgage.

29:06 Right. Right. So, that's the difference in the shift that I hope to see and that's really what ultimately what Mutual's about too is we're really about trying to make that shift in the market too because we feel like that's not just going to create more advocates, it's going to create more confidence and more clarity and man, we need that today. We need those two things, clarity and confidence.

29:29 You know, we're so aligned on this and this is why, you know, I we spoke last year and I asked you back again this year because this has been my my goal all along has been to raise the awareness and then, you know, raise the level of service, the quality of the service.

29:45 Yes. Now, to your point on the mortgages, you know, I as a real estate broker, I was licensed to do mortgages at one point. The license was the same and then when the NMLS came out, I got that as well and I'm licensed and I was able to do both. I just wasn't able to do both at a high level. And then that's the distinction that yes, you can do a mortgage and a reverse mortgage and a mortgage, you just can't do either one and be great at it. And what I discovered was everybody who I found who was really made a lot of money and had a lot of success with business or built a great business, they did one or the other. None of them did both. Now, they might have a person on staff or a friend or spouse, but there's enough to keep up on in for me in real estate to not get involved in mortgages and I think the same's true with mortgages without getting into reverse mortgages. They're just two different animals. I see the top I would interview I've had the good fortune of interviewing I think a number of the top reverse mortgage originators in the country as well as forward mortgage originators in the country. And they're just very different. And their business is very different. And I think that's important to honor that and understand that and encourage people, you know, step up, but step into the role. Don't step up as in take what's easy and grab onto it because it doesn't really work.

30:59 That's right. It what's really great about that bill is I actually have I have mortgage loan originators from companies that can do reverses that refer business to me cuz they're like, "Yeah, I don't want to send them to Joe. Joe's not going to be So, what they're more concerned about is what is my reputation with this client?

31:21 Right. If I If I blow this lead and this is a referral from a trusted Realtor® or financial advisor Right. And I don't treat them well and I don't ask the right questions,

31:31 Right. And I don't walk them through the process, guess what's going to happen? They're going to go back and go, "Yeah, it was okay."

31:39 Yeah. No, I went through that When I When I was originator, my best clients were commercial banks that had mortgage departments, but they knew that the guy in the mortgage department, maybe half the company who managed those referrals, was like average or slightly better than average, and they were a great commercial banker, and they wanted a great originator.

31:59 Yes. And the same is true with me as a real estate broker. I don't want an average originator. I want the best. Right. And the best for that client, whatever that situation is, and it varies based on state and product and personality type and situation.

32:11 And so, I think that, you know, your company's done a really good job, I think, of distinguishing that and I know you have. I think that's really important to me. Look, I know we've gone a little bit long, so I apologize. You and I think are easy to talk to and I could go on for a long time, but we want to be effective with our time. Nathan, you know, thank you so much for being on here again.

32:30 Yes. I'm more than that. Thank you so much for setting a high standard of excellence in our industry and continuing to, and I wish you can I continue success with that. If someone wants to get a hold of you, best place I have your website up. Is that the best way to get a hold of you?

32:43 Yeah, best way just todaysreverse.com. You can also go to my YouTube page. You can just literally start writing in Nathan Johnson reverse mortgage and you should be able to find me. I've got several videos on there.

32:55 I did that by the way. That's why that's why I found Yeah. There will be more videos coming. My wife and I in and a few other folks are going to be working on more of a video kind of campaign this next year and really how do you introduce this to folks especially when they're they've heard the bad news or they've heard this or that. So we're really trying to work from a very a very simple and yet understandable why does it make sense, right? Why would why would why do I have clients that have a $6 million net worth? Why would they even look at this, right? Why would I have a $3 million net worth client do it? They're all seeing it from different from different perspectives. So that's going to be a lot of fun this year. I'm looking forward to that. So yeah, be looking for that. We're going to be launching some here pretty soon. So

33:47 Fantastic. Well, Nathan, thanks so much. Good luck to you and your wife on the YouTube channel and let's stay in touch. I'm sure we'll have you back again. I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being with us. Great to be here, Bill. Thanks again for the opportunity.

33:57 And for those of you watching today, thank you for joining the Reverse Mortgage Podcast. We have a new episode every week. Usually top originators like Nathan who are telling us how they service the market, help us support our clients better whether you're a referral source them wealth manager or accountant or attorney or real estate broker like me. If I can help any way, please reach out at Bill Gross Probate on social media. Give me a comment, reply, like, put something in the in the comment section. Subscribe if you like as well. As always, please make today your best day.