What Estate Planning Attorney Sedric E. Collins Wishes Everyone Knew

0:01 Welcome to Probate Weekly where we often talk about what we do when we're probate. And we are today going to speak to a probate attorney not only do I know is active and successful actually work with had the pleasure of working with and still work with in a couple cases and look forward to one coming up. That's going to be exciting who also helps you stay out of probate. We'll talk about that towards the end. Sedric Collins. Sedric, thank you for joining us again today.

0:22 Thank you so much for having me, Bill. Good morning to you. So I've had the pleasure of working with you on probate administration cases and I think I would say we've been involved in some that would be more routine filing and kind of walking through the process to I know when we got involved with her recently more complicated with multiple objectors and such. So I guess the first question is how clear is the picture when you start or do these more complicated cases kind of unfold once you start the process? It's a great question, Bill, and you really don't know what you're getting into sometimes because although you can have a very robust client intake process, when there are client calls to firm, we try to figure out the different dynamics of the family, the dynamics and dimensions of the assets that were left behind. And we have a we believe that we have a pretty robust questionnaire, but that still doesn't tell the whole story, right?

1:15 Because at the end of the day, you're dealing with people. And sometimes the clients that come to us, they don't really fully understand what's going on.

1:23 Yeah. And I know people often will reach out to me on my Facebook group or as we roll the podcast, I just need an attorney. And I always say, well, we need attorney for. Well, I just need a probate attorney. What would you need them for? And it could be one of, you know, 50 different attorneys that could probably handle it properly. but each one being different. And sometimes, you know, ahead of time by asking questions, but sometimes you just don't know. the thing just kind of explodes into a whole different issue, right? And so one of the things, let's talk about some of the things that cause that to happen. One of the things I think is maybe initially not understanding the scope of the assets of the estate. Meaning sometimes people call me and they know about a house, but what they don't know is there's a lot of personal property or securities or intellectual property or other things that come involved. And so talk about kind of how that unfolds and as an attorney how you support your client in kind of discovering these things and protecting this state and protecting themselves.

2:20 Well, Bill, that initial interview that we have, we try to get a good idea. A part of this probate process is there needs to be an inventory. And what many people don't know is that what is an estate first of all, right? Right. That's all the property that you own down to the shirt on your back

2:38 At the time of death. Whether that be real estate or real property, whether it be intellectual property that you mentioned, personal property, and a lot of people don't think about the property that's in your home, small items, you know, sentimental items that may have value.

2:55 And a lot of times, unfortunately, kind of the dark side of this is that families don't know that. Sometimes they go into the homes and take things and that don't belong to them. We see that happen a lot. And so, what we try to do in the beginning is take as thorough of an inventory, an initial inventory as possible. And then, some people just don't know the scope of what the deceased person really has. When it comes to money and property, that's very personal.

3:21 So, some of my clients when we do estate planning, they can't remember all of the accounts that they have. you know, we're we're thinking like, "Oh, I forgot I had a CD account over here with $15,000 in it, or I had you know, an investment over here that I invested in 10 years ago and been sitting there." If we don't fully know that sometimes or we forget everything that we have, what more the people that we leave behind are, you know, children or grandchildren, extended family members, they don't really understand what they see, the full scope of what that person had. And some of this comes out over time.

3:56 We have situations where two years later, you know, or sometimes after an estate has closed, there's a new asset that surfaces that we were just unaware of during the probate administration process.

4:09 Sometimes these distinctions are very subtle legal issues that you went to law school to learn and maybe I've been exposed to and absorbed to some degree, but the average customer just doesn't appreciate. You mentioned the word an estate versus a person. You know, when I sell a house and a family owns it, maybe husband, wife, or maybe five kids are entitled to the property, they're all owners. They're all customers theoretically if I take on the property, if they're all individuals. But in a probate is different because even though there might be five siblings or five prospective heirs and even if they, you know, they haven't proven the case yet and assuming they are the heirs, the reality is the customer is not the heirs. the customer is the estate which has not yet determined who the heirs are until the court approves that. It's it's all I want to say speculative, but it's all theoretical, right? And so that must be a tough thing to explain to a customer or client that on one hand they're paying money and they think they're in charge. The other hand, they're really not the customer, they're the estate. And if they're administrator, that's a little different. Now they're running it, but even there, they're not running it for themsel, they're running it for the state. So talk a little bit about that subtlety and how you explain to customers to help them or clients and how you get them to understand that distinction. Well, yeah, it's really hard because there's a lot of emotion involved. There's attachment to certain property. like we recently had the situation to where you know that had to be explained like yes we know that you are the ch the child of the deceased person here and you may have grown up here but now at this particular juncture there is a process a legal process where the court has to protect the interest of all involved right

5:51 And so there is a separation between you and the property that you could potentially inherit provided that you are even alive at the time of distribution

6:05 Right you've right now you are a potential heir because what happens is this let's say probate in California could be 18 to 24 months and now you have a person standing before you now that might not even be living in a year

6:18 Right and so all of that can change the scope of the dynamics of who the actual heirs to the estate are right and so yes so there is a separation between an heir which there's something here in California called you know intestate succession where we're going to look at first of all surviving spouse going down to children then up to parents out to siblings so there is an order of priority with who can even be you know considered you know an heir under California law and some of that is highly contested we've had situations where folks are challenging whether someone's actually the birth child and we have to prove in court or the person having to prove by showing birth certificates and it can even get more complex into like DNA. It can get really

7:07 People can really kind of go down the rabbit hole if you will when it comes to who is actually an heir. But there is a clear distinction and we kind of have to explain to the client how this how this works. the difference between the estate, the property, the assets and the heirs who could potentially inherit once there is a distribution at the end of the probate administration process.

7:30 Now, do you and this one of the other things that people clients I think misunderstand is the role of the attorney. well, sometimes attorneys wear two hats. It'd be like being the quarterback and the receiver where they might choose to be the attorney representing the administrator or executive. There's a separate role called the administrator executive. And I find clients often assume the attorney is that person, not the attorney for that person. And therefore, the lines get blurred as to who's supposed to do what and communicate. so obviously good communication is critical to set the process up. Talk a bit about your process when somebody's retained you and maybe the plan is they'll be the executive if they're named in the will or the administrator if they're not, but they're first in line or whatever it may be. but at some point you're not signing on to go to the bank for them. I don't believe you're not signing on to you know, I don't know going to the house and getting rid of things. That's the job of the administrator either to do it or delegate that. And sometimes I think customers don't when I deal with them don't understand where that line is and they're just not clear or they or they forget or choose to forget. How do you set that up and how do you try to make that communication effective?

8:49 Well, in the beginning I we're I'm really big I come from the higher education space before I was an attorney. I'm really big on educating whether it's on the estate planning side and or educating the potential heirs or educating the administrator or fiduciary on processes. Many times there's a family member who's not a professional, right? They have no experience in this at all. They're not licensed and now they want to be what's called the personal representative of the estate. That's a job. And there's a if the court is appoints that person who steps forward because the court must appoint that person or kind of sanction that person, anoint that person or whatever if you will to now be in charge given those letters of administration. There's a lot of work that needs to be done. My work job as an attorney is to advise and communicate with the court with the law, the legal aspects, legal strategy, the dimensions of the law. whereas that person who's the personal representative, they have to be the one to walk into the bank, show letters of administration. a lot of the bills are sent to them first because maybe this is a surviving spouse, right? And so, bills keep coming in. So, there's a lot involved with wrapping up one's estate and we're here to kind of set the guidelines and parameters and do what we can from a legal standpoint. But, I'm my firm, we're not a t we're not tax professionals. We're not filing the final tax return of the deceased person.

10:15 We're I'm not a real estate professional such as you, Mr. Gross. So is it takes a team of professionals to work in conjunction with the either independent professional fiduciary or the person who's a nonprofessional who is appointed by the court or by the will to serve in that personal representative capacity. So, it's it is a job. Now there's compensation involved in that as it should be but it's certainly a job and you have to be there has to be some impartiality right you have to remain impartial as this personal representative u because of the fact that you have a duty to act impartially toward the potential heirs of the estate.

10:56 Well obviously your wealth of knowledge are and there's a lot to unpack what you just said for people who aren't as familiar. So let me just take two good nuggets out there and polish them a little bit. One is you said it's a job and I don't think people who sign up to be administrator executive understand it is a job. I mean I wouldn't do it for free. I guess I would for a family member that's not really for free but I wouldn't do it for customers for free. There's a pay there's a pay schedule maximum by California state law. I would do it for those in some cases I wouldn't do it at most because it's not only just work. Sometimes it can be difficult work. Sometimes it can be unpleasant work dealing with upset family members and conflicts and things. So, it is a job and if the estate's worth a million dollars, you're you got hired by a million-dollar business to liquidate it. No different than if the local, you know, I don't know, electronic store hired you and your job was to, you know, sell everything out and close the business down in the next 90 days. That's a job and people get paid to do that. I think the other thing you said is is a team. And I think that's also where things get lost is, you know, in any team there has to be an understanding of the roles of your team members and also a willingness to step in and kind of help out a little bit. you know, in different sports, you know, I played a lot of baseball and softball competitively and as a first baseman, you know, my we had an idea of where my range was, but if I go a little further, I could cover for the second base if he couldn't get to it. Well, by knowing together how we worked, we were be we're more effective than if we just sat there and played our position and pointed fingers when the wall when the ball went between us. That's true in real estate. I mean, in probate because on one hand, your role is defined and my and my role is defined. But if the client doesn't understand what has to get done, somebody either has to step in and explain to the client or in some cases take the client by the hand and say, "Here, let me help you with this and help you get it started or let me show you a couple people who can help you finish this." You and I famously recently went to a house where I had been told over and over again there were a lot of cars and a lot of stuff in the house and I hear this a lot and the house was a little further away than we normally go. It turned out with traffic it was like an hour and 45 minute drive so I didn't have a chance to go by ahead of time. Usually I'll sneak by ahead of time to get a eyes on and but this was a little too far to do that.

13:08 But when we showed up I'm I think reaction was like mine like wow this is not just a lot of cars. This is like a car lot on a residential lot with all kinds of other stuff. Buses, motorcycles, trucks, right?

13:22 Yeah. There's nobody who've been prepared what to do when you showed up that day with a plan. There's just no, you got to work together and say, "What are you going to do? What do I know? Let's put a plan together and work on it." And that's why I think you're right that having relationships with people and kind of working on some game plans makes sense. You and I have worked together in a couple cases so far and we could rely on that on that goodwill to make it work. So again for people listening I think it's important that we want to find an attorney who has a rolodex of team members they work with and problems don't just become your problem but it is your problem but here's a solution and here's somebody who can help you maybe move forward and make it effective.

14:00 Absolutely. So what you know I know my perspective and I think I've shared a few of those. What are the things that you find clients come to you most frustrated with or surprised by in the process that you have to step in and help them? Meaning, you know, I tell people all the time, 90% of customers love their attorney when they hire them and after 90 days, 90% hate them because the not because attorney did say anything wrong, but the expectations are so out of alignment and the 10% who manage that are the good ones or great ones. What do you do? What do you see as customers most frustrated with that you are surprised or you're able to help with that maybe other attorneys are kind of dropping the ball on? Well, I think you know in ter in terms of expectations, you have to be very clear on your role because remember when the client is called the firm, there may be an expectation that you are their lawyer as first of all as an individual. And so what you have to be clear about, like we kind of discussed, is that hey, I'm the attorney who's going to represent you representing the estate, if you will. So I can't choose sides, right? So, if there's a dispute between you and another, let's say a sibling, there's a battle over some property and you felt like they wronged you and something was over, I don't get to step in between and resolve that particular matter, you know, and a lot of times that might be separate litigation. We might have to bring in special counsel maybe in there's a will contest. Maybe there's a sibling who's challenging a will. Maybe the person who hired me is expecting me to represent them in a will contest and that's beyond the scope of administration, right? Because now there's a separate litigation that's attached to the probate. So now that's when we have to bring in someone like a probate litigation attorney who can now maybe do a will contest or compel certain things that I as the administrator cannot do. And sometimes that might take a client by surprise because they're saying, "Hey, well, I thought that you did all of this." But no, we handle the administration piece, not necessarily representing your interest in a dispute with another heir,

16:11 You know. And so these are things that can make lengthening the process. A lot of folks are taken by surprise with how long this is going to take.

16:21 It's going to take a long time. The technical answer is a long time. A long time. And so, and there's other factors that are at play always, like maybe the house perhaps, maybe the property taxes haven't been paid in a year or two years or maybe there's other dimensions like maybe there's a foreclosure because the mortgage hasn't been paid. So, now you have all of this outside pressure, if you will, that may have driven them to our office in the first place, right? Because the we've had situations where folks have lived in a house 10 years after the person has died, right? And now all of a sudden the mortgage gets behind and now the bank's getting involved and we have all of these pressures and sometimes they want something out. Yeah. We want something done right now. It's like wait, we just we're this is a brand new relationship. This problem have existed long before we got started. And so some sometimes there's a surprise that we can't just immediately step in and just resolve everything. So there's a lot of moving parts here, Bill, a lot of dynamics. And it does catch a lot of clients by surprise and some things catch me by surprise, right?

17:28 Because we're just learning of something now that that unsurfaced or unfolded after we'd already begun the legal relationship.

17:37 There's again a lot to unpack there. I think one of the things that when you talk about time, I don't think clients understand how long, how slow the wheels of justice turn and you file petitions and you get hearing dates set six months out, three months out. Generally on a on a probate petition within 30 days you have your first hearing. That's the LA court's been pretty consistent with that. But still it's 30 days unless you do some extraordinary things. I live in realtor time where we, you know, we expect things done the next day. And so I say to customer, sometimes there's things I can do to help expedite getting some money. We can do it in advance, get you a loan. Let's talk about, you know, what your needs are and I can work with the attorney's client to help those things happen, but you're not going to get your probate closed in less than a year in LA County. It's going to probably take two years. I can share the data. It's not me just saying that. That's the actual result. The other thing that you touched on I just want to explain is sometimes I think clients are surprised when attorneys who do administration don't do litigation and having interviewed so far in the series hundreds of attorneys. I'm not because to me those are two different worlds, two different strengths. The attorneys are good at them to me are two different types of people and that rarely is one who's great at administration great at litigation and vice versa.

18:55 It's the nature of the beast. And I think that clients understand going in that if you know, if you can vet it and think you're going to be in litigation, okay, let's get the right attorney on that case. and maybe talk to a Sedric to get that right referral, get the right litigation attorney or talk to me if I can help with that. But if it's administration, that's not the same guy who does litigation. My experience is litigators just don't have the same attention to detail or communication skills with the client. they may be superior in court or with briefs and all the legal details and such. So again, I think that's something that most clients are surprised to hear, but as having done this podcast now, I respect when somebody points me to their specialty because I think it means they're better at that than the other attorneys are going to be and they are weaker what they don't do. So they prefer somebody who's who does that. So

19:45 And I'll speak to that because really quick to that, Bill's point is I didn't become a lawyer to become a litigator. I'm one of those lawyers who wants to stay out of court. In fact, I spent a number of years only doing front side estate planning, helping keeping families out of court and conflict. I didn't want to be in court myself. I didn't want to litigate on any level. And I think the thing that really motivated me to start helping families and individuals through the probate process is there was someone very close to me that I'd known prior to becoming an attorney whose you know father had passed away and we tried to get an estate plan for that gentleman. Unfortunately, he was a little reluctant to do so. And so unfortunately there was a probate. I wasn't doing any probate at the time. I had to send him to another firm and it kind of bothered me a little bit that I wasn't because he trusted me. So it bothered me a little bit that I had to send them to someone else. So I really started looking at okay well how can I step in use the experience that I have on the front side and try to see if I can maybe help facilitate and help these people navigate what's a very tumult could be a very potentially tumultuous and contentious proceeding. And so I changed my perspective on this. And the administrative side, I still get to be a neutral for the most part, representing the estate, communicating with the families and in some cases having to be a peacemaker, if you will, but not stepping foot in court and actually contesting a will or contesting a trust, which you're right, is a totally separate skill set than administering an estate.

21:25 Right. Right. And I think you know my father was an attorney you know he passed you know 20 years ago but when he was at and practiced at Mosk he had a partner in those days who did wills and trust and it was a different practice but he his partner covered all of that. I think in those days attorneys handled a wider breadth of things and old attorneys seem to be more comfortable with that wider breadth but I think like all business customers are well served with specialists. I think I always find you might pay more per hour, but you're going to pay for less hours by a lot and get a better result by finding a specialist. Now, one of the things that you mentioned to segue a little bit is part of probate is avoiding probate. And I think it's I think that I appreciate when I see somebody who does both estate planning and probate. I think that the probate administration should make you a better estate planner by seeing the kind of things that come up routinely. So talk a bit about how those two complement your business that you do both probate administration i.e. getting the cows back in the barn and building barns and building the barns before the cows get are put into place. How does that how does that work for you in your practice?

22:35 Look, I'll start off by saying I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It absolutely applies in the world of estate planning and probate. I jokingly say with my clients before they even hire a firm, look, I know what happens on both sides of the grave, if you will, right? I know what happens when the person had a plan and I know what happens when the person does not have a plan.

22:58 Yes. Okay. And that's kind of the advantage that I've gained by doing both because I see all the pitfalls from someone not having a plan. So now I'm able to take that knowledge and expertise back over to the front side and say, "Hey, I saw this in court here. I saw a family fight over this, fight over that. Well, what can we put into your plan now that may help eliminate or mitigate or reduce the likelihood of this conflict happening down the road. So, I can see it from both angles and both perspective. And you're absolutely right. My probate experience has made me a better in my opinion estate planning attorney because I can see those potential pitfalls kind of even before they happen. I can kind of foresee forecast. Oh, I see this. Okay. You want to leave a house to these five heirs? Oh, I can tell you exactly what's going to happen. [laughter] They're going to be fighting over this, and this. How do I know? Because I'm in probate now with a family fighting over this, and this

23:53 Every day. Yeah, for sure. Five. I can say I'm not attorney. You leave it to five, at least one's going to argue. At le four might walk into court holding hands, singing songs, and with tulips and birds chirping, but there's always be one. It just takes one to make the whole thing go sideways.

24:12 Absolutely. And also to add to that when it comes to real estate. Okay. they're not making any more land anywhere in the world, right? So that's maybe why real estate is is the one asset. They're not making any more land. So people are going to fight over land,

24:28 Property. And so, but also on the planning side pro one of the most soughtafter things is generational wealth through real estate. And so what families on the planning side what they would desire to do is they desire to keep property in the family for generations. We hear that. But what are my cl my clients are surprised is how much work that actually takes. And a lot of folks are not positioned to the right way, at least initially when they come to us, to keep even the family home around after they die,

25:05 Even if it's put into a trust. And for case in point, they don't know that. Well, who's going to take care of this $800,000 mortgage that's here? I know you want to leave with the Susie and Johnny, but they're they're 17 and 16. What does that look like in real life if you pass away tomorrow? How are they actually going to hold on to this house? And many times after explaining what that would actually look like, hey, somebody has to rent this house out to the public. Know the property taxes have to be maintained, the insurance, there's repairs, the trustee is in essence going to be a landlord, and if it's the wife or maybe there's a stepmom or stepdad holding on a house for stepchildren, there's a lot of dynamics that go into this. And so, at the end of the day, a lot of them end up putting into the trust, ordering the trustee to just sell it,

25:49 To just sell it because we can't hold on to it. But they would not have known that had they not worked with an attorney that kind of has experience on both sides of how what it looks like in real life to hold on to real estate for years after someone dies.

26:04 Yeah, you bring a point. Actually, there's a couple different issues there you bring up. One is the financial ability to keep the property. If there's multiple heirs and someone get cashed out and only asks the house, how do you manage that? And there's some solutions, some loans, advances, and things that can be worked out, but they need to be worked out. There's tax consequences that can dramatically change the tax bill if it's not done properly. And so those are things where you want a good estate plan to cover. and then there's also logistics which is in my experience as a real estate agent, most people who inherit house are not suitable to write it out. It's just to it's not even just there's that much work. It's the kind of work that people don't care for. The phone call on a Saturday night that my, you know, garbos is backed up. Well, how do you handle that? And most people just don't want to defer to a handyman. they want to go check out and it bothers them and I tell people I just don't think you want to be in that business. It doesn't make sense from my experience with you. But again, those are personal things that people have to plan and that's the issue is the plan, right? They have to take the time and invest the time and or money though the money I think is small by comparison to what if you don't plan what the state's going to pay. And that's same with the heirs too. The heirs are going to pay a lot of money because that money all comes out of the estate. So the estate plan fees and all that is relatively small for everybody, but just to get that done ahead of time, it's hard to get people to do. So you must have that. I when I talk to estate plan attorneys, I find a common issue, which is people come in for the introduction and you know, they know they need a plan. They maybe like you and feel trust, comfort, that you can do a good job. But when it comes to actually two things, doing the homework that they have to do and writing the check, they just stop. And I know the numbers for online estate planning is like less than 10% complete that task even though it's a paid less than 10% finish the task of the homework. So you must have some process where you for your business, but also for the client's sake, follow up with them to get them to finish. And I have plenty of cases where customers started and didn't finish.

28:09 That's a probate case. As a realtor, I get paid to deal with it. Talk to me about your approach to customers or prospective customers when they're just they're close but not quite yet in action with the plan being done. How can you push them? You're not a salesperson. You want people who want to do this and yet you also want your client to have a good result. So, how do you handle that situation? Well, that's a great question, Bill, because being that he heard the saying, you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. It's the same thing. And the one

28:40 If you beat them with a stick, we can make them drink. Is that a possibility? [laughter] You beat your client with a stick. We can't make like I tell my clients, I cannot go into your bank and, you know, and make the trust the beneficiary of this, right? There's only so much as an attorney that I can do. One of the things that we put in place though is we give unlimited guidance to our clients on how to fund properly fund this trust. And that's probably the number one thing with estate planning, especially in the world with DIY, do-it-yourself, and all this AI and folks think they can just say magic words and spit out a trust. And there's so many blind spots.

29:20 Yeah. So many blind spots that that are there. And what we have is we have a relationship model at Legacy One Law Firm. We have periodic complimentary estate plan reviews we put in place. There's things that we do after the trust has been signed, after the ink has been dried, we want to keep on that trust, we want to keep the relationship going. So, we're I'm like I said before, I'm really big on education. So, even before they sign that trust, I've already educated the client on how the game works, if you will, and the importance of properly funding that trust. So, we give them verbal and written instructions. Some of the funding we take care of, like with the real estate, we take care of all of that, but we don't have the bandwidth to go into your bank or to call your insurance company. Now, there are some firms that may help and do a little bit more of the funding, but we limit what we do on the funding part, but and we train the client, educate them, show them how to make sure that all of their assets are either owned or controlled by the trust. And that's the key, owned or controlled. And so, we show you how to do that. And that's part of the domain expertise that our firm brings to the clients. It's like, look, we're we're not just going to do documents for you, but we're going to educate you on how this works. So, even in our absence, for the rest of your life, you're going to know how to do this.

30:43 Do you prepare the grant deeds from the family members into the trust? And do you also handle the recording for the client? We do. We do to the to the extent to the extent that they allow. Some of our clients are landlords and they have 10 houses. Maybe we'll do five because there's a fee associated with this. But yes, most the average family has one and that's kind of included in our process is making sure we do all the deed recording and drafting and recording for the clients.

31:09 Anybody who follows me on this podcast or say playing that's a fine line for me is a cl and attorneys want to do that. Some attorneys say we don't get involved the online services will don't get involved and it really they might go so far as to as to send a grant deed to the person to get notarized and recorded but to me that's not complete. the customer didn't pay for that customer to me paid for an effectuated trust or plan and not having it funded which is the key to the whole thing is that and so when I talk to an attorney and if they don't do that I'm just not going to you I'm just not going to put on my channel because I don't think they're really serving the customer they're just looking to get paid and I think the other part that they that you mentioned about not doing for banks insurance you know that's a double-edged sword for clients because to me also as a professional they're things I don't want to have access to with my customers because it's so easy for fraud and it could be fraud somebody else does in my name right these days people can control my computer and if you sent me your login your bank account for the purpose of changing the ownership well a bad guy could also access my computer and do that and so I always feel like that's a line that the customer really should it's just too easy

32:22 But let's just make sure it gets done yes and I don't think it's as common a problem it's not as big a problem as a piece of real estate which is going to cost a lot of money and problems if you don't get it done right. So again those are critical to me critical steps and I appreciate that you do that and I know you do you know we met actually for those who don't know I haven't talked about before we had breakfast meeting with a mutual client and so my relationship with subject is more than just an attorney on a couple matters and such but you can just tell as a personal level he cares about the clients wants to do a good job. Let's talk about a little bit about some of the things you offer clients to help learn. You mentioned education. Your website is legacylaw do I'm sorry legacyonelaw.com. Quite my eyesight. legacyonelaw.com. And on the website you have both a newsletter which I think is great and I get it and I read it but you also have a free download prudent planning for family legacy. Talk a bit about the download. Well that's part of that education. I wrote this book and one of the reasons why I wrote this book and released it was not to get rich. You're not going to get wealthy off writing a book about wills and trust, right? It's hard to get people to do it. But I wrote this book to help kind of pull back the curtain, if you will, with the differences of wills versus trust, health care directives, planning for children, who should be on your team. There's a dream team that every family should have, whether you're real estate professional, your trust, your financial advisor. So, we kind of pull back the curtain in an easy to read book that's only about 150 pages long. And it's available for sale on Amazon. But if you we make it available for free so you don't have to pay the eight bucks for the download or 14 for the hard copy. You can simply have the free download right to your smartphone, tablet or computer and learn about prudent planning for family legacy.

34:14 Very nice. So go there to the website legacyonelaw.com. You scroll down, you'll see the free download as well as you can subscribe to the newsletter. Sedric, look, I certainly appreciate the time we spent together working on not just talking. We've done a couple episodes, but working cases. I think you've done a great job. I know I've we've, you know, I referred some business to you and we have a third party we work with together that does business together. So, when I interview you, it's not just a matter of another attorney in my rolodex, but I really enjoy the time we spend. And I would encourage anybody who is looking for legal help in the area either to you're in probate, need help administering or going to or want to avoid probate with proper estate planning. legacyonelaw.com is your website. Down below is your contact information. so thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate as always chatting with you and learning about the business and hopefully working on our businesses together.

35:03 Likewise, Bill. It's always a pleasure to connect with you and I'm happy that you give me the platform today to kind of share a little bit about how we serve the community. I'm looking forward to working with you more in the future.

35:12 Thanks so much. All the best. And for the rest of you, this is Probate Weekly. We get together every week with a new episode. Usually probate attorneys or probate avoidance attorneys, i.e. estate planners or vendors are related to help us do better in serving our clients and helping serve families with probate needs. If I can help in any way, reach out at Bill Gross Probate on social media. And as always, make today your best day ever. Thanks so much.