What an Executor Can Actually Do, with Scott Rahn

0:03 Welcome to Probate Weekly and if you listen at all you'll know that I always talk about the importance of being the expert, being the resource as opposed to just telling people that you are. We're really excited to have today one of the top attorneys in the probate trust litigation fields in Southern California, but also has one of the best I think marketing approaches and I think it's definitely an opportunity for us to learn the content as well as his business. Scott Rahn, RMO LLP. Thank you for joining us again on Probate Weekly.

0:30 Happy to be here, Bill. Thank you for having me. Give me an idea of the size of your of your practice. Yeah, so I guess it depends on how you want to define it. We're a little over 40 people. We've got eight offices based here out of California. Mostly focused in Southern California, but we have offices throughout the state and practice throughout the state. We've got offices in Texas and we've been pulled into cases across the country and frankly across the globe. As you know, money is international and borderless at this point in our lives. So you know, if you're

1:09 [clears throat] not doing the work, you're collaborating with other like-minded community members either domestically or internationally.

1:18 And with 40 people in your offices, you're strictly focused in the trust estate kind of related side pieces, conservatorships, guardianships, but you're really in that narrow lane, I think.

1:28 Correct. You know, that's one of the things I always emphasize to other realtors and consumers is you need to work with somebody who's an expert in this field. Your firm really is one of the expert resources in this field.

1:40 Thank you. Yeah, we say the same thing, you know, when we're working with real estate people. There are a lot of people out there who say that they know sale until you start the process and then you quickly realize they have no idea what they're doing.

1:57 So let's talk a bit, you know, one of the areas It's so funny. I was sharing before we started this recording for those watching, you know, I saw a great video you did a while ago on the title "What an Executor Can and Can't Do." and then I was so excited I yesterday was on your LinkedIn channel or LinkedIn feed and you guys had another marketing piece which was phenomenal. I called your office and said, "I need to book Scott." And the marketing person reminded me, "Oh yeah, he's coming on tomorrow." So, we're going to go with the first topic just because I think that's one that's more on the on the button. But, you guys have a very extensive social media program. Talk a bit about And the thing I like about it is so much of it is education. You really are covering what I would call fundamental, like the blocking, tackling, where does your arm go when you block, where does your fingers go when you block, really nuts and bolts kind of stuff. You know, so talk a bit about how you give out that information. Obviously, people are hiring you for that activity. You guys sharing what you do. Like me, I feel like the key is to educate the customer at some point. They'll choose you to take it from there. But, talk a little bit about your philosophy on your social media marketing in your business development.

3:02 No, I think you nailed it right on the head, Bill. I mean, we really take our duty and frankly our role in the community very seriously. And our ethos has always been from the jump to help people. And in crafting our marketing presence, we really said, "You know, look, looking at most of the people that we work with, really frankly no matter how sophisticated they may be in financial affairs or in their own business, they're really uninformed when it comes to the matters that we handle for them. So, we set out to create a very comprehensive set of teachings that give people a very simple pathway to understanding what are unfamiliar concepts and really unfamiliar concepts that people often are having to process during one of the most difficult times that anybody can experience in their life because they're either lost somebody whom they love or someone they love is compromised and they're faced with some sort of some sort of challenge. Either it's a litigation that's been filed or is being threatened, they're being dragged into a dispute and they have to very quickly, you know, understand which way is up. So we've really taken the approach of, you know, what is the best bedside manner we can deploy here. How can we hold someone's hand, talk to them in plain English so that they understand what's in front of them and help understand that we're here to walk them through it and really serve as their guide to get them through to the other end where we can leave them in a better place and much better place than we found them and we found that that has been really well received by the community. I mean, one of the most frequently shared compliments I would say that we get from potential clients is they've watched the videos, they've read the material and they're too just really thankful that, you know, one we've taken the time but that we really just talked to them, you know, human to human about what these things are and really what they're not. Things to watch out for, pitfalls, traps, you know, all those kinds of things and it's really rewarding for us to be able to do that and just really be able to help people.

5:30 So sticking a little bit on the executor role, I think in my experience as a real estate agent, the area that gets the relationship in trouble with the realtor, I'm sorry, with the executor or administrator and the attorney is like a clarity of where the law firm ends and the administrator's responsibilities begin. What they can, they can't do as executor, what the role of attorney is, the assumption that the attorney is going to do non-legal things. So, talk a little bit about where that line is and then what services if any your firm provides beyond just the straight legal service and what you don't provide.

6:05 Sure. I think it's a really great question and I think a lot of people do get confused about that, right? They think, well, I hired you, right? I hired a lawyer and the lawyer is going to do everything and you know, well, that's simply not realistic when you're talking specifically about the appointment of an executor or an administrator by the probate court. It is that person or persons who are named, right? They are the ones deemed worthy. They are the ones authorized to act on behalf of that estate and therefore they are the ones who need to go and do a lot of the legwork, going to the banks, right? Coordinating on those financial accounts, you know, transferring signing documents, signing deeds, those kinds of things. And often times people don't understand that because nobody explains it to them because so many people have never been through this before. If you're lucky, when you come to us, you've never had to administer someone else's estate. So, what we do is really take the time in the beginning process to walk through and help them understand, you know, what this means that we again are a guide, right? To help you, to counsel you, counselors at law, right? As your attorneys to make sure that you understand the processes. We're here to help you when you get stuck, guide you through the things that you need to do, when you need to do them, how you should do them, what best practices are. But, that's really our role. Our role is to interact with the court on your behalf as the executor and interact with third parties to the extent that there's assistance required or they get their lawyers involved. But otherwise, a lot of the day-to-day management of an administration is done by the executor.

7:52 So, it's very similar to when someone hires you, right? To list a property, right? They still need to be involved, right? They still need to review the offers that come in, right? They need to understand, you know, in consultation with you're going to guide them through that process, help them pick the best buyer, whether they're going to take, you know, backup offers, all those kinds of things. But ultimately, the client, for us, just like you, the client is the decision maker, right? And they're the one who has to be in charge of making these decisions. Again, we're here to provide them our advice and guidance, and we do that on the daily.

8:31 You know, the I'm sure you deal with this all the time where, you know, an administrator assumes, "Well, they don't really need you. I can do this on my own. I don't need to ask you for advice. I know what I'm doing." And increasingly don't. You know, the classic I find is the client is told to open an account in the estate. They run down to the Wells Fargo account, a bank Wells Fargo says you need the letters. They come back, they get a copy of the letters. Wells Fargo says, "No, you need a signed a stamped copy." They come back with a stamped copy. "No, you need a what? A stamped copy?" You know, and so 4 weeks go by or they give up at some point, never open the account, and we're scrambling when we sell the house. And I just feel like the lack that lack of clarity of what where the job ends or doing it for them. And so, I know I know some firms you have like either an administration section they're going to charge for doing that work or they have various parties they work with to do the administrative work. Of course, you can hire a professional fiduciary. What other range of offers or opportunities do you have, let's say, for smaller estates, you know, what I call retail estates, you know, million, two million dollars? Do you offer to do the administrative work and charge them for it? Do you refer out to somebody who does that kind of work? Or is it really just training them up and coaching them up on doing on their own and doing a better job of that than the competition?

9:43 Really facts and circumstances dependent, right? Not everybody is interested in doing the same amount of work as someone else. So, it's really dependent on the client, right? How much work can they do? How much work do they want to do? Right? Are they here locally? Are they going to be able to physically go and do the things that are required? do we bring somebody else in? Should you have a professional fiduciary who serves as agent? Right? There are so many different ways to skin it that, you know, it really is and we look at each case as a as a couture opportunity to really look at the client, look at the circumstances, determine what's going to be required, and then what kinds of services, whether there are services or third-party services, would really fit this specific schematic so that the client is getting the best experience that they can. Frankly, so they can move the administration along as efficiently as they can, and as cost-effectively as possible, right? That's Ultimately, that's what everybody wants to know is how long is it going to take and how much is it going to cost, right?

10:50 Right. None of us has crystal ball, but having done this as long as we have, you're you're usually able to guide the client at least with within some parameters to really help them understand that and help them make well-informed decisions.

11:05 For the record, I do have a crystal ball right there. It doesn't really work, but I do have a crystal ball. When people say, "Do you have a crystal ball?" Oh, yeah, and I have one right there. It's just And we'll say as a professional, you know, I would you may have an opinion

11:19 [laughter] I want to say for the record, my experience is that it always is more work than anybody expects, and it's always less pleasant work than they would have managed imagine administration because it at the end of the day, it's just work. I mean, it's a job. Now, if you if you're you're bored and you want a job, great. Be the administrator of the state. But, I would say for most people, if you're busy in life, the last thing you want is another job and really spend a lot of time doing paperwork and working for a bunch of other people including your family members that never go along with that well. [laughter]

11:52 It is an absolutely thankless task, right? It is It is something that I know other firms will take on. They will serve as executor, they will serve as trustee, conservator, etc. You know, we don't do it. It's not what we do all day every day. We do, you know, one thing and we do it really well and we don't do the things we shouldn't. There are plenty of qualified people out there who do this, you know, all day every day. And if there's somebody who doesn't think they're up for the task or if we get to the end of you know, that initial consult and they don't feel like they're up for it or we don't think that they're up for it, right? We help them make a better decision because ultimately by agreeing to serve as [clears throat] the fiduciary, you're putting this giant target on your head, on your back, right? And you don't do your if, you know, you don't do the administration right if you fall down somewhere, right? If mistakes happen. You can expect that the people who love you dearly will come calling for you. So, you know, there are a lot of people who do call and say, you know, can't I just do this by myself? And I always say, you can, right? And I could rewire my house, right? I can. Should I?

13:09 [laughter] Probably not. Probably not. Well, I can't rewire my own house. I wouldn't begin to I wouldn't pretend to say I could in jest. I That's how far off I am. So, okay. So, let's talk about now. Somebody's decided they want to work with you. They even did a consult or they were referred by somebody to you. They have an estate. And let's just say more common, fairly common. They have a house and some bank accounts and some stuff they need to sell or whatever. So, they sign on with you and at some point you're gathering information, they're filling out paperwork, so you file a petition, but they're not yet appointed. But yet, we have these assets. Let's talk about specifically a house that might be vacant. You know, there's potential squatters, there's potential fraud artists going around. What can what should an executor do before they're appointed, if anything? And what should they not do that gets them in trouble before they get appointed?

13:54 I mean, taking action many actions before you're appointed will get you in trouble, right? I think that's something that we see frequently. again, it's going to be very facts and circumstances based, right? If you've got a squatter situation, if you've got a safety issue, right? If people are breaking into the property, stealing personal property, right? You can go in on a on a abbreviated schedule and seek appointment as special administrator, right? You can even do that on an ex parte basis where the circumstances warrant it, and we do that on the regular. Right? I mean, this is you know, it's a city of millions and millions of people, and you know, not everybody conducts their business the way that you and I do, and sometimes there are special circumstances.

14:40 Right. You know, personal property's disappearing, like you said, people have moved into the house, right? And now you've got a squatter situation, or there's other unsafe conditions that just need to be addressed. So, the best thing that anybody can do is seek the advice of competent counsel so that you can understand what the specific risks are that you're looking at, what the potential responses can be to those specific circumstances, so that you're really putting yourself in the best position to be able to handle those, and not get out over your skis, because we've certainly seen people who've put themselves in bad situations because they go to deal with the squatters themselves, right? And they don't have the authority to do it. And then the squatters call the police, right? And it ends up being this really unsafe situation that they've created for themselves. And the police look at the situation and say, "Well, you don't have any authority either."

15:39 Right. Right? So, these people now they get to stay here and now they feel emboldened. Correct. And they've been blessed with, you know, the blessing of the police to be there because you didn't have the authority you needed to do anything. And it just makes the situation worse, right? Going back to your comment about people saying, "Well, can't I just do this myself?" Again, we often tell people when they say that and they're going to go off and do that, you know, you can, but when you come back or when you need to come back, just understand that you may have created a situation for yourself that is going to be really difficult to fix, right? And more time-consuming and more expensive than if you just started off on the right foot the first time.

16:22 It sounds always the case I find when they do it themselves it in the long run, you know, the classic I find is they go to court and they get the approval from the judge and the judge says, "Okay, I'll give you limited authority for, you know, $20,000 bond or full authority for $1,000,000 bond." And they want to save money so they go limited authority and I and I say, "You just lost the value of the property by more than your attorney's fees by probably two or three times."

16:44 Yeah. Even if you do everything perfectly, you're going to sell it at an average 3% discount, that's more than the attorney's fees are going to be for your, you know, $1,000,000 estate. And I think there's just like a lack of humility about what other people do. And so, okay, I'll get off my soapbox.

17:01 And I mean I'm on that soapbox with you, Bill. I mean, the reality is that the rate schedule for the fees for a probate, for example, for an executor or for a lawyer representing the executor haven't been adjusted in eons. And you're you know, despite the inflation that we've had over the past many years. So, you're really running into a situation where frankly, for a million-dollar probate, the fees are pretty paltry for a lawyer, right? Even for a two million, three million-dollar probate, that it's not you know, it's tens of thousands of dollars, but it's not tens and tens and tens and tens and thousands of dollars.

17:39 Right. Right? So, you're really being penny wise, pound foolish. And there's you know, the old saying that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client, right? Well, if that client is representing himself, I'm not sure what you should call that person, but if they're not even a lawyer, you know, you get the gist of it.

18:00 You know, I just was statistics and in LA County, 90% of cases are handled by attorneys who've done one in the prior 12 months or zero. And I know in talking to most of to many of those attorneys that it's a even with the high legal fees, they lose money on the case because there's so much work involved and the delay and so they have to outlay money for various expenses and either the client has to or the attorney has to. The attorney's going to get paid like the like the administrator at the very end after everyone else is paid if there's money left.

18:33 Yes. Right? And so, I think that the economics of this it sounds daunting, but really you're talking about a million-dollar business, why wouldn't you hire somebody for $25,000 or so to you know, run it for you, run with you along the way or get a legal counsel for that. So, okay. So, we talked a little bit about pre-appointment and now that's imagine we have somebody who filed the paperwork with you've you filed it with the court and the paperwork was approved by the court maybe orally or at the at the hearing and boom, you're approved. what are the most important things in the first 30 days for the executor to do to move things? I find that that you know, the faster things move smartly, properly, professionally, the better result in any business, right? That speed just kills. It limits people from objecting. It takes creditors off the table. They don't get in their time and they're not the timely matter. Talk a bit about what are the most important things for an executive to do in that first 30-day period.

19:29 I think your points are well taken, Bill. Your experience echoes mine, and it's really a matter of what you suggested, expediency with efficiency, right? So, I think one of the biggest mistakes that we see people make is they get appointed and then they say, and they take their foot off the gas, right? Like, hallelujah, I got here.

19:53 They spike the They get a first down, they spike the ball, and they run off the field. Exactly. [laughter] That's exactly right. That's a great analogy. And instead of saying, "Okay, now I'm authorized, and let's get going," right? And so, you know, what they should not do is rest on the laurels of, you know, I got my appointment, right? Staying on top of what needs to be done, right? You got You got approved by the court. Now you got to go get your letters, like you said earlier, right? They didn't get their letters, and now they're going back to get their letters, and now you're a month out, or you're 6 weeks out, or whatever it is, and you've just wasted a whole bunch of time. I will say that here at the firm, you know, our litigations and our administrations, if I shared the numbers with you, I you know, I might be a little embarrassed by pride. but, you know, really, on the average, our cases only last anywhere from 12 to 15 months, right? There are exceptions to that, but, you know, we really pride ourselves on being efficient, because that's what, frankly, the courts want and need. That's what clients want and need, right? They want to be able to move on. So, how can we streamline whatever it is we're doing so that we can help our clients get through this process and be in a place to grieve the loss of their loved one and move on with their lives right from a better place.

21:18 So, doing your job, right, and sitting down like I got a point it. What are we doing first, right? We're marshaling the assets. What are the assets I need to marshal? What do I need to do to do them, right? What are the liabilities? Have we gone and picked up the mail, right? What do we know? Do we have the tax returns? Do we know where all of the other things are going to go? Do we have documents? Do we need to get other documents, right? have we coordinated with the probate referee, right? What are they What are the assets that the probate referee is going to have to value, right? And just going through these things really step-by-step-by-step. It's it's a very involved process, as you know, even a simple estate, but there are steps that you can take and the executor should be taking with you where you just check these boxes, right? Here are the assets. Here are the liabilities, right? Creditors, notices are out. Have creditor claims been received? Have they been processed, right? What Now, what are the assets? You know, who are we going to have to pay, right? Etc. And it's really just taking it one step at a time and really you know, we've systematized our checklists, you know, here at the firm to be automated, but you know, for the client as well, right? Sharing those checklists and just really going through them together to say, you know, this week I'm going to work on this and then next week I'm going to work on that and we're going to get through this together so that you know, the number of times that I've been in court and somebody is there on an OSC because they failed to file their petition for final distribution.

22:52 It's a bit jaw-dropping, right? And the courts don't like it cuz it jams up their dockets. They like it. You know, they set it out. They set it out far I think far enough out, you know, that there's no reason that these things haven't been filed or status report hasn't been filed to say why you know, it wasn't filed, but you know, if you're if you're doing things and doing them diligently, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to wrap up an administration in a in a timely manner.

23:22 Well, and that I think then points to why I think you spend time educating executors in what to do in your whole video series and every piece of the puzzle because on one hand, I'm sure it's good marketing for people who want to decide who to use, but it also is just good business practice to have your clients educated cuz if your clients are more educated than the competition, you're going to win more often than the competition will. Now, I'll give you another stat. Again, I ran the data in LA County only, but the median probate closing is over 2 years. Now, that that doesn't count I suppose the average is a lot longer cuz you have some old cases and some that reopen and that's a whole different exception, but the median, the middle of the case is over 2 years, which just means, you know, on average, you're probably going to take over 2 years with a with a standard case. And that doesn't count the ones that they cancel and never close. So, that's a whole another I can't, you know, quantify that or get that data anyway. So, the again, these things should take longer than a year? Not really. Do they? Almost always. Unless you're with some of the better firms like you that really do have systems and procedures, that's definitely an issue. One of the things I think we talked about maybe we brushed by, but maybe go a little deeper is when and what threshold or what circumstances would you advise somebody not just to hire an attorney, but to hire a fiduciary where they need somebody who actually is going to act on their behalf and they're going to say, "You know, I'm I'm just going to have somebody that knows you or knows your system or works with your staff and is going to handle the administrative pieces and of course I have to prove it maybe on signature level, but I really need somebody who's going to do this for me as far as the day-to-day operations on behalf of the state." Is there a dollar amount that you look at as a threshold? Is it just out of state people? What do you find is the threshold?

25:00 It's really the level of complexity and the sophistication and time Mhm. and energy and effort that the client has to commit to serving in this role, right? As you know, it is a duty-riddled opportunity. And if you're out of state or you're busy professional, right? The number of lawyers, you know, that we've helped over the years who are non-practitioners in this space, but they're sophisticated lawyers who, you know, have very sophisticated litigation or transactional or tax practices or what have you, and they just can't get to the administration, whether it's in a state or a trust, what have you, because they're busy, right? They've got families, they've got kids, they've got sports on the weekends, right? They've got a busy practice during the week, and the things that, you know, the fiduciary will do or needs to do just don't get done, right? They don't get done in the way or in the time frame that they should be done, and then the beneficiaries start grousing, right? And you know, they either end up resigning, and we've seen that in a number of cases, where they just say, "Look, I just don't need this, right? I thought I was doing a favor to my family, and now I'm, you know, everybody's barking at me because I haven't done what they think I should do, and they should try to do this, and you know, families.

26:28 And so I would just really say that it again is a facts-and-circumstances analysis, and an honest one that needs to be had with the client in that first meeting. Like you're not only trying to understand what happened and what needs to be done, but who should do it and why? Because if you're not having that honest conversation with your client, you're not you're not serving them well, right? right? And we have a fiduciary duty we owe to our clients, right? To advise them well, and sometimes that advice is, "I don't think this is right for you." Right? We do the same thing when we don't think it's a fit for us, right? If there's some reason where, you know, it's just not a situation where we think we're the best people to help, right? We'll we'll introduce them to someone else who might just be a better fit for them. or give them somebody else's information to as a second opinion, right? To say, "Look, this is what we think should happen. I can hear, you know, that you have some consternation about that. Yeah, go talk to somebody else." And ultimately, all we want for our clients is that they're able to do a good job, right? They're able to honor, you know, the wishes of the person who usually asked them to serve in this role, or who thrust it upon them. And, you know, if they're if they're hesitating, we want to take that opportunity to have that honest conversation, to be candid with each other to say, "Do you really want this, right? And if you do, you're really going to be able to do this?

28:04 You know, do we need to layer in some help?" Right? Would you do it You know, would you feel comfortable if we layered in some assistance here or some assistance there? Right? So, there are there many different levers to pull, dials to turn, buttons to push, but it all starts with having that honest conversation.

28:21 I never had a client I've been here I've imagined the same who started off, you know, at one level and was more excited to be the administrator 6 months later. That's never happened in my experience. I've done I've administered a few myself as well. And I always regret it somewhere. I wanted to do this. I had a attorney one of them asked me to do it as a favor, and I did. And I you know, as a favor, I mean, at the end of the day, but simple favors. Yeah, but like most I got paid, but it wasn't worth it. I mean, it sounds like you know, to the client it was a lot of money and they kind of treated me like, "Oh, you're getting paid a lot." Yeah, you know, I have a pretty active business here. I'm not you know, I'm not a retiree. I'm not clipping coupons. I'm running a business and it even at the fee act I thought about getting my own license to do a fiduciary more regularly. I just realized that's just not work that I want to do on a regular basis. It's just difficult it's different I can't do both well and I actually hired a friend who got me in the business as a fiduciary and he's doing real well. So, that's been fun. I One of the keys to success that I find for a client relationship is usually with your staff. Meaning, great to meet you, great to see your video, maybe do the intake you even, or you're available when needed, but at the day-to-day basis, you've got to have people behind you in your staff who are doing the paperwork, the follow-up, the day-to-day communication with customer, "Hey, you didn't return this to us on time." Whatever that looks like. So, talk a bit about how you manage that handoff. You obviously you train people, you give them good procedures, you give them good resources. What's the communication look like when they go from coming in the door to now they're working with somebody on your staff more regularly?

30:01 Well, I think it all starts Bill with recruiting and building your team, right? So, it if you're not starting with like-minded people who are going to treat your clients the same way you do, then you're destined to fail from day one. So, we've taken the very careful approach in building our firm and continuing to build our reputation based upon each and every person who's here, right? So, we're very picky about who we let in the door, right? Who we welcome into the hallowed halls of RMO as we say, because we really want to make sure that they're the right people, right? There are some really talented practitioners out there and there are people who have oodles and oodles of empathy, but it's really where those two things combine that you find RMO, right? We want to be the best practitioners, we want to be the most empathetic people, right? This business really requires both. You need to be able to hold the hands and you need to be able to do the work. So, from the top to bottom here, you will find that you're going to get the same type of service, the same quality of service, the same hand-holding, the same responsiveness across the platform and that's really important to us and that's really been, you know, the thread that we've continued to pull, you know, now in our 12th year.

31:33 Yeah. After leaving big law. and, you know, we just continue to build on that and continue to, you know, hire for that next generation. You know, my partner, Sean, he is the M in RMO. You know, we've been together for 25 years. We were summer associates together, you know, back in 2001. and we've just, you know, built, you know, our relationship over those 25 years.

31:59 Wow. And, you know, sharing a lot of values and, you know, sharing our strengths, you know, and helping to, you know, strengthen each other's weaknesses. and we've built upon that platform, that longevity, that fidelity, you know, to grow into the next generation of our, you know, younger partners and then the younger attorneys under them and, you know, the wonderful staff, the paralegals, the legal assistants, the administrative staff, marketing, business development, et cetera that we have here. You know, I think the one thing that you know, find here is that

32:36 Everybody's just a really good person, right? Trying to do the right thing for the right reasons, whatever their role is. So, whether you start with the customer service team, right? At that first phone call or email, or you get to, you know, Sean or me or one of the other lawyers, you're going to have that same experience where you're going to be made to feel that we care because we all do.

33:02 And it trickles down, you know, when you care, then your staff's going to, I think if you if you don't care, you can't train staff and get them to act that way on a daily basis and that shows and you know, I would imagine as a general rule, you know, in my business when I have clients who are in probate, if we're talking to the name partner, something is going terribly

33:21 [laughter] Nothing personal, but you're the last person I want to talk to you and deal other than to say hi and check in, but in terms of a probate case and if I'm selling a house, if you're involved, it's it's just not good. You we just want

33:34 [laughter] Yeah, right. And behind the scenes, I mean, we do a lot of training, right? Ad hoc training, right? On the spot training, right? Going through situations, right? We do weekend trainings, right? Lunchtime training, those kinds of things so that everybody, you know, knows not only the how, right? Which is important, but the why, right? This is why we at RMO do it this way, right? Because we have found that this is the best path, right? So, you're absolutely right and you know, if I can add value, I'm here to do that, but you know, the team is more than capable and you know, we couldn't be more proud of the people who make up RMO.

34:17 Well, look, I've gone a little overtime here. I really appreciate your time and again, I just on behalf of the industry, anybody watching this, you should check out their LinkedIn feed, you should check out check out Scott's or the company's YouTube channel. They have some great shorts describing various snippets and details of the industry. Really great resource. Scott, thank you so much for educating and raising the standards I think of the practice and I think also giving me the opportunity to grow my game. If you want more, RMO is the company. rmolawyers.com is the website. rmolawyers.com and Scott Rahn is a founding partner. Contact information down below. If you're listening to this and you can't reach it, I'll reach out to you. I'd be more glad to make that connection. Scott, on behalf of everybody watching today, thank you so much for your time today and thank you for raising the standards of our industry and helping us educate ourselves.

35:06 Thank you. Thank you again for having me, Bill. Really great to be here. And for the rest of you, that's Probate Weekly. We get together every week and usually with a probate attorney, though not often with one as much of a team behind him in a leadership role in the industry that Scott has, but a great resource. I definitely encourage you to go to their LinkedIn feed to sign up to follow him there for good content to learn about the business as well. And I think you're going to get a lot of that kind of material which I think is really important. If I can help in any way, please reach out. Call, text, or email. Love you to like this or subscribe. Send me a comment if you have a problem with it. Either way, make today your best day ever. Thank you so