Trusted Senior Move Managers: Where Compassion Meets Know-How, with Marty Stevens-Heebner

0:01 Really excited to have back one of my favorite guests, Marty Stevens-Heebner of Clear Home Solutions. And she says, "The key at the end of the move in process for moving your parents is to still be on speaking terms." I said to her, "Well, I'm just working on being a speaking term with my wife, let al parents and customers, but that sounds like a pretty big order here. Staying in helping your parents move out of your house into senior living or whatever the next phase is and staying on speaking terms with them. What's the key to that?" The key is shocking really great communication and compassion. It's a combination. You know, it's every so often somebody says, you know, it to me, I can't get my dad to stop driving. He needs to stop driving. He's too, you know, he's not safe out there. And I'll say, well, have you tried talking with him about it? Yes. Okay. Well, how did you go about what you say? Well, I told him he has to stop driving. I said, "Well, here's another way to go about that." You know, I because one of the things that I say in the book is that your parents when you try to tell them to do something, they see you and they remember that they used to change your diapers. So, just remember that. How could you possibly know more than they do because they used to change your diapers. So, it's important to kind of think about first their where are they coming from and to kind of gently ease into it. And in terms of for example the car, you know, the keys to the car, just say, you know, how are you feeling about getting around now? I mean, are there are other ways to get around? You don't have to drive. You kind of earn the right not to have to drive. Let somebody else be your chauffeur. You can call Lift or Uber. You know, there are other ways to go about this.

1:42 Whimo. Exact. Now, Whimo. Exactly. In some cities. Yes. And so why not take advantage of that in this way too, you know, because God forbid you're in an accident and you know there's no witnesses or whatever, they're going to think they're going to have you as the main suspect only because of your age. And I know that's not fair, but let's really think about this. And so, you know, when you start coming at it from their point of view, it's like your insurance rates would go up and they probably already have gone up. I mean, how can we make this easier? And honestly, you know what? Why do you even want to? I don't want to drive, you know. And actually, in truth, Bill, I would love to have I would love to have somebody else drive me. I don't have other stuff to do. I want to even enjoy the scenery or nap, but you know, I mean, I could be making phone calls. I could be reading books and stuff like that. So yeah, it's important to when you're talking about when the if time comes and your parents are thinking about moving out of that home they've been in for a long time into whether it's assisted living or they're moving closer to you or they're just downsizing. It's like the house is too big to take care of. Let's move into a two-bedroom condo, something like that. This is a huge shift for them. It's actually not just a huge shift for them. It's a it's a big shift in the life of the entire family.

3:04 Because you I literally had one client say to me out loud. She said, 'I feel like I'm moving to the place I'm going to die.

3:13 Right. I've heard that several times. That's kind of like Yeah. And I remember I probably audibly gulped when she said that. This one client and I again don't the worst thing you can say is like, "Oh no, it's going to be great there." you know, they'll, you know, they'll cook the food, they'll do this. Don't deny their emotions. That's the worst thing you can do to anybody. I mean, think how it feels to you. How would you feel if somebody said, "Oh, no. You don't need to feel that. Oh, no. You should you shouldn't feel that way. Of course, you're feeling that way." Because Yeah. I mean, part of them knows that, you know, the end of their life is a lot closer, a lot closer than the beginning of it. And this could be their last move ever. So it's important to keep that in mind so that if you don't want to sit there and suddenly just bring up, you know, it's time for you to move to assisted living. You need to move. You need to go somewhere because that's shocking and you're not considering what they're what they're confronting inevitably, at least subconsciously. They're already feeling like they're losing a bit of control simply because their bodies aren't working the way they used to. And things like that. People may be ignoring them, you know, when they ask for help in stores or whatever.

4:37 So, it's important to keep that in mind. Also, for adult children, remember this is really affecting you too because when you're you there's the term sandwich generation. There's also now the term, I don't know if you've heard it, Bill, the club sandwich generation because there are often great, pardon me, great-grandparents who are still around because people are living into their hundreds.

5:00 So, it's not that unusual anymore. But when you're in the sandwich generation, you've got your kids that you're worrying about and now all of a sudden this shift has happened where you have to be looking out for your parents whether they want you to or not. And that's a lot of added responsibility because I think I know from my own experience, you know, when my mom died when she was only 58, so I was only 26, but dad made it to 90. And when that shift started to happen where, okay, I got to keep an eye on this. I got to keep an eye on him and talk to him about these later life things as gently as possible that it's kind of like a support fell out for my structure cuz you know somewhere inside us subconsciously the parent was always the one we could turn to and now actually they have to turn to us for some things and also it reminded me that he's going to be gone and you know it makes you face their mortality your own mortality etc. Now, I wish as a culture we face mortality more and recognize that there's an end to this one way or another because honestly once I wound up doing that every day I'm up and around and you know I can wake up and get out of bed. It's a great day because I'm still here.

6:20 Yeah. So that's important but we don't want to talk about that end. And so it's this scary undefined kind of terrifying p piece of life and we need to talk more about that in a way that's compassionate with those who are older than us.

6:38 That's a very longwinded answer. Sorry. You're saying this and frankly what I'm hearing is what I would call a lot of good fundamentals of communication, right? Affirm other people's feelings. Give them room to talk, ask questions. And as a real estate, you know, broker and I've coached, you know, thousands of agents. I feel like I'm really good at this with customers.

6:57 I'm not as good at this with my own family, my own wife, you know, and it's because once you start talking to your parents or once you start talking to your children, all that other stuff comes in that kind of clouds your well, why should I have to speak like that to my own parent or my own child or my own spouse? Because you have to. Good communication is good communication. And when we let all that baggage from the past get in the middle of it just makes a difficult conversation a lot more difficult.

7:25 Oh, and almost combat us sometimes. I mean, it's here's the thing. When we come in and start working with our clients from Clear Home Solutions and helping people start the moving process, it's not unusual to have the adult kids hear us say something they've been saying so many times over and over again to their parents. Yes.

7:46 And their parents respond by saying, "Oh, that's a great idea." Like those words have never entered their ears before. And I remember going through this with my own dad.

7:56 Got it. Yes. It's because your family members family members have the family filter in place. Parent to child, parent, you know, spouse to spouse, you're going to butt heads. It's just it's a fact of life. And that's when having professionals at times working with you, a neutral third party can help a lot. Even a friend. Somebody you trust. It's that's that can be very helpful to get them to hear and actually take in what you've been trying to tell them. There's just such a long history there and it's complicated and it's decades long and it's family. It's normal. But within the family, if you can really first try to see it from the other person's point of view and think and kind of address their concerns as you're bringing it up and really let them talk about what they're feeling about it and invite them to ask questions, too.

8:50 The more they talk, the more you want. You know, I keep in my office kind of blocked right now kind of down below a chess clock, an old an old style chess clock where you have two clocks. And the way it worked was you make your move, push the timer, the other person's time's running, then they push their timer, it goes on yours.

9:06 And for me, it's a metaphor to remind me that when I'm in a sales environment, I'm working with a customer, the more they talk, the more I win. You know, we I think the more words we put out, we're better. But the truth is there's nothing that we're ever going to say that's can convince somebody as much as their own discovery of what's going on.

9:25 Yeah. Beautifully put. And with parents or family members, I assume they listen to me. They don't listen to anything. You know, I tell people this all the time. Your kids don't listen to a word you say. They watch everything you do and take notes and hold against you, right? But they don't listen to anything you say ever. I guess your parents are probably the same. I never told me that one, but now it makes sense. My parents are both gone. But now they look back and Yeah, they never listen to me. Why? Because you say because they changed my diapers. No, they're just family. Family doesn't listen to you. They watch you. My daughter, she doesn't listen to a word I say still to this day. But she watches me and as a result, I have a chance to influence her.

10:04 That's a that's beautifully put. That's a really great point to make. And the thing is too with your parents, you know, they saw you. We look when you're growing up, you make mistakes. It's it is part of the natural process of growing up. You we learn from our mistakes. That's where that adage comes from. And so they saw you make all those mistakes and they remember them. So they I think part of it is they kind of want to protect you too. I think that's a little bit go what's going on too. But it's really important to try to think of it from their point of view, especially thinking of it that they know they're getting older and they know they're losing some control and it's frightening whether they admit that consciously or not. It's there. And so if you really start having these conversations and it's not just the conversation as in singular, it is many conversations. Gh, it's the relationship, that whole thing.

11:03 That whole thing. Yeah, that whole thing. Okay. Yes. No, you're right. Of course. Of course. With a customer, we see that, right? We're in business. Of course, our customers multiple conversations over time and they need their time to come to a conclusion. But as your parent like, "Hey, I told you should move into the nursing home. Why are they moving already? Why aren't they packing? I told you. I sent you a text. Didn't you get it?"

11:25 Oh my gosh. You know, this is funny. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's it I've often, you know, heard people say, "I can't get them to talk about I can't get them to talk to me about the estate plan or if they have a will or anything, they won't talk to me or, you know, their idea of a plan is like, well, I'm going off feet first." And so that's again when you just saying start talking about your own situation.

11:51 Yeah. Because adult children are adults and many have their own children and you can just say, you know, I've decided I need to start talking to my kids about because, you know, I could have a car wreck and be gone and I'm realizing I've got to do my estate plan and everything.

12:07 Do you have suggestions for me because you know I'm your kid, you're my parent. I mean, how what's the best way for me? What how should I approach this with them? Like ask them for advice for yourself,

12:17 Right? Because that starts opening up that door. Because you know parent well I certainly my parents were happy to give me advice and Lord know I don't have kids but I'm happy to give anybody advice like I am now actually.

12:31 Yeah. I just don't have to take the advice. I'm glad to give advice. I'm not good at receiving or following advice. I'm not good at giving advice. I'm an expert. Like I have I have great advice on how to be a great husband. I don't do any of it. But I have a lot of advice on what men should do to be a great husband.

12:50 There you go. There. Oh, I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do some at least. But occasionally by accident, I bump into something, right? But no, I think that's But again, it's always easy to talk about things. It's much harder to actually live. And I think I think you're right that, you know, it was a time I really wanted to find out about my we have one child. She's married, thank God, and has great husband. And just wanted to find out like are they do they have a plan in place? They have two grandkids now I have with them and a third on the way. And the best way to talk about with them is to say, "Well, here's what I've done. I have this trust. I have this. My documents are here. My pastors are here. My key to the safe is here." and so and then all of a sudden they would say, "Well, gee, you know, we don't need that, but we have this. We have that. We have this." Great. Now we know where it

13:35 Yeah. Yeah. I again just when in doubt, go to compassion and empathy. Ask them how they're doing. What did they I know it's like I don't I don't have time for this. Let me just tell you what to do and you just go do it. I don't have time.

13:51 Yeah. So my parents just shut up and do it. Well, and Exactly. And think of this also as a chance to get to know the parents stories more. Yes. They will tell you a couple of those stories you've heard a zillion times already. I remember it's like I kind of I have to be honest, Bill. I'm actually here saying, "Do as I say, not as I did."

14:17 Exact. I'm with you 100% there. I'm the king of do as I say, not as I did. Yeah. Because I did shut my father down, but it was before my experience working with, you know, over 12 years working with older adults and their families, just like you have so much experience, you start to see it. Yeah. Yeah. We go, it's like, oh god, I should I wish I hadn't done that. But, you know, get those stories now because you know, I know especially with my mother dying when she was only 58, there are there have been over these decades so many things I would have loved to have asked her and

14:48 Those are gone. Especially now with my dad gone, all of that is gone. No collecting it. So this is a chance to really enjoy these what will end up being final years with your parents. And again, you never know what can happen. So yeah, talking about yourself, listen, you know, talk less, listen more,

15:08 All of that. And you know, sometimes maybe, you know, it's interesting, Bill, with what you're saying about how it's so much easier to do with clients, maybe kind of put yourself in that role. Well, what if I'm talking to a client and who's difficult to persuade? So, how would I go about this? And do your best to kind of be in that role. It's hard, but if you can at least start that way. And just remember, it's a series of conversations. Don't expect to come home, you know, visit your parents on summer vacation and have it all solved by the time you got home.

15:41 It's not going to happen, right? So, the relationship takes time and work. Work. I love that.

15:49 There's no magic pill. Can I just get a pill? Can you give me a pillow to solve all that for me, please? Well, you know, I you know, you and I both know and I'm not trying to sell services to people, but some especially when it feels intractable or when you don't you literally don't have time, bringing in a professional who's really good at what they do, they can you can kind of delegate it and have them help you handle the situation. You know, you're still going to have to work at it, but sometimes having the professionals come in, you know, they will listen to things from us that they have been ignoring from you. So the in addition to bringing our own expertise like realy expertise which is so important.

16:28 So when I bring in professionals to help okay I'm gonna I'm gonna use some guilt here.

16:37 Goal in real estate is to keep the parties from waring because so often dysfunctional families want to use the probate process as the civil war they never fought and war breaks out over the house. So if I can keep it together on the house, obviously what's left to fight over your dysfunctional relationship is all the stuff.

16:56 So the stuff people, good luck with all that. Oh, and you know what they fight over? They fight over the broken jewelry box that was grandma's. It barely closes. The little doll doesn't spring up and dance anymore. You can try to crank the music. Doesn't work. But it was grand. That's what they'll fight over. Something sentimental.

17:19 Yeah, something sentimental. You know, dad's reading glasses that he stopped using 20 years ago. I It's the It's And again, you know, the advice of course for you and I to people, whether they're fighting over the house, whether they're fighting over some item is to realize that what's going on is something so much deeper. It's the grief in that case because someone has passed away. And to a degree when you're dealing with your older parents and trying to help them move there, it's a it's an ending with that house. So, it's a kind of death, if you will. Like a divorce is, I mean, it's the end of something very profound and deep. I mean, they lived in that home, even if it's just five years, that was that's been home for them. And they lived their complete lives there. It's housed their museum of memories. So, it's important to keep those things in mind. It's a big deal. I mean, frankly, you and I both know moving sucks in it. Pardon me, but it stinks at any age. It's I don't call it relocation. I call it dislocation because you're going to feel out of joint till you're settled in the new place for at least a month and sometimes it takes up to six months because you need to get to know the new neighborhood. Same thing. A senior living community is a neighborhood and your parents need to get to know it. And it's great if you help them get to know it. That's another thing. Then you know it too. And you know sometimes you can then also the people who work at the community get to know you. So if you're a little concerned about this or that you can call them and say hey can you check on this that sort of thing. But yeah it's the still be on speaking terms part of it that is really the challenge. I mean the moving part is enough and there are all kinds of practical thing. Thank you so much. There are all kinds of check I put every checklist from 12 years that we use in the company. I adapted it for you regular human beings out there who don't do this day in day out. And then I would say it's as much about those practical logistics as or pardon

19:22 Me it's as much about the emotional logistics as it is about those practical logistics. You know it's how do you deal with those you know start those conversations some conversation starters. Sometimes the holidays are good time too are a good time too because you know there's a there's not an obvious feeling of history there but there are these traditions which are a part of history that you usually have within a family and it's a good time to reminisce and to gently start the conversation. You know mom and dad when are you see how do you want to be living your lives like 5 to 10 years from now? What does that look like for you? And so kind of start with some of the broader strokes over the holidays because you want to enjoy the holidays too. Don't worry about the details in these first conversations. Start to get an idea and then slowly just start having that, you know, having deeper conversations, more detailed conversations. Now, sometimes you can't wait for that. Something happens. Dad gets a dementia diagnosis. Mom has a heart attack. And what do you do? That's when you wish you'd had all these discussions, but you know, then everything just really has to move at a rapid pace and then you really do need to get professionals involved,

20:38 Right? Especially if they don't have an estate plan. I mean, you know that so well, all too well, especially when home kind of becomes the enemy to their new body situation, their physical condition.

20:50 Yeah, that's a big part of it. I think the house stops becoming appropriate in our case. Disappears and

21:02 Works well now for us. It's called force exercise. But once one of us, God forbid, it's going to be over.

21:10 It's gonna be over. I can say I want to be there for a while. Be there for a while. But the truth is, God

21:21 15 years ago, I was young. I ran up and I slept down. But something happened this age. Something happened this age. Going to be forced to make decision.

21:31 We don't want to make that decision today. We're like that kids that we're just waiting to happen. You got to move. Well, I don't want to move.

21:40 I don't want to move. Can't go up the stairs anymore. Well, what are we going to do? So, those are things that challenging on the real estate side. I often get brought in.

21:48 I have to get brought in when the decisions already been when the decision already been made. People specialize in helping me get involved beforehand. That's why I'm glad to have that's why I'm glad to have you and

21:57 Learn about this. So let's talk about there are times in your business there are times in your business you see yourself I'm glad I do this on the road.

22:07 Give me an example of one of those. Well, it's frequently, especially in emergencies like this when it something's something really drastic healthwise has happened and so the family is contending with that or someone has passed away. Something severe has happened and so the family is already completely rattled by that and then there is something that has to happen with all the personal property usually the structure of the property too which is what you know you handle Bill but something suddenly has to happen and then the thing is all this again museum of memories all these memories the acorage of memories I call it in the book there's so much and each one just kind of reverberates with the memory of the either the memory of the person who's passed on or the person who they're trying to keep alive or keep healthy. And so that whole mess of emotions is going on and be it's an honor to be brought in and to be there to sit there and help them gently guide them through it. We it's not about making people, you know, you have to, you know, let go of this, you have to do that, but really guiding them through the questions. And then when you can see that they're kind of stuck on something to be able to say, okay, let's, you know, we can keep that.

23:32 That's not we can keep that item. That's not a problem. You know, this is but this is a lot to go through. How are you feeling? Are you tired? What's I mean, this is tough. And getting them to talk about it is very therapeutic. We're not therapists, but we do hear a lot of very emotional stories and try to help guide people through them and keep them moving forward so they don't get stuck and get bitter about things. So, that's really wonderful when that can happen. Same thing with a massive hoarding situation where someone who has created a hoarding situation and has to and has been living in it, you know, is very wary of anybody coming in because they figure they're going to be very judgmental or tell them what to do. And when they realize that's not the point. There's no judgment here. We're just here to help them figure out what to do with this so that they can live more comfortably. And I can think of a motheraughter situation years ago. I think the parents both tended to hoard, but after the husband passed, it got even worse. And so the mother was so reluctant to even let us in the carport. And it was a bad hoarding situation. And so we got in there and she worked. You know, she started to trust more and then let us in the house. And the house, it was swoller. You know, there was the hoarder's nest, as they call it. The plumbing was shot. The stairs were rickety. The electricity was juryrigged. You know, it was awful.

25:00 And she got to the point though after working with us for a couple of months, it does take that long to she didn't stop needing to be there when our when our team was there, which was such a compliment that she trusted us so much. And I remember getting email from her daughter a few months afterwards and she said, "Not only did you transform my mother's life, you transformed the life of the whole family because she really knit herself back into the life of the their family. Nightmares before when she was in the hoarding situation and kept herself apart.

25:30 So when that happens, you realize how much you get to transform people's lives sometimes. It's just extraordinary. So may I really appreciate going these details with you and you're just a fountain of knowledge. You're literally an author and a book on this. At the same also a business builds a business and has to build business keep her staff busy and paid profit enterprise talk a little bit about what do you do to generate business and keep relationships or build your business

26:05 Well for one thing find great people to bring on board your company be patient with hiring make sure they have empathy that's yeah that's the hard skill I you know we can teach anybody how to how to pack and do the other logistics. It's can they see it from the other person's point of view and really listen to them and understand and you know in realy that is so important because you've got to because even without the personal property in the home even if the home is empty selling it

26:39 Is such a big deal and there are so many emotions attached. So there it's the empathy. So hiring great people who really care about the work number one do a great job number two because then what happens and this is where we are now after 12 and a half years of doing this is that we're somewhat it's mostly referrals. Some people find us online, some people through the book, but primarily it's just not only from former clients, but also with from estate planning attorneys and fiduciaries, senior living communities, Realtors® like yourself, of course, especially those who work specifically with older adults. So, you want to get to know people, get out there and network. Go to networking events. That's a wonderful way to build it. And also don't be shy about referring business to other people or introducing say an estate planning attorney to a CPA who works with a lot of people who are older because they can do business together. That's a good way to do it too. And then they remember that you've been making great introductions for them. So you know the great thing is get to know people and be friendly and when you're working with clients just do a great job. So

27:49 At this stage your career obviously doing real well. Do you still have the focus on development developing business

27:58 With referral sources or getting new ones versus well I'm like you know thank goodness it okay backtracking a little bit talking about dealing with stairs almost two years ago I broke my left ankle and my left wrist and my left foot and talk about dealing with stairs and how that became a nightmare. My business could have fallen apart during that time because I really couldn't do I literally lost the use of the left side of my body basically and thankfully my business could kind of run itself. So that's where you want to get with your business ideally is where especially the day-to-day. I have this amazing client success and operations manager, Vanessa Clark. She's wonderful. And then I have my great project managers. I do like we use Slack for team communication. I read every, you know, I always scan everything, but they've got this unless they need me specifically for something. I do get out and I definitely still network. I'm part of a big group called Provisors and that's wonderful. Percentage of time. It's not a huge percentage of time at this point. 15 20% maybe. And then I there's always the finance side and the human resources side and the insurance side and all that fun stuff I've got to deal with. There's that. But I'm also launching a new venture. This is what unfortunately this is what it gives you time for and instead of like go on vacation it's like I had this new idea for a company you know HY Alliance which you and I have talked about before and so developing that so which has now in addition to having the glossery of professions it has the directory of professionals I'm also implementing two new parts of it we're starting to beta test there is the ability to go in there because so often you know when the proverbial poo hits the fan no one knows what to

30:00 No one knows what, you know, what do I do? Medically, you have your doctors to guide you, but what about everything else? Legal, financial, senior living communities, real estate is key, care and wellness. So you can go in and into the age wise guide and start answering questions and based on the answers to your questions at the end it gives you a guide of the professionals who you should be contacting now

30:23 And what they do so that you have a compass where you need to go. Additionally, we're adding, speaking of Slack, a communications hub that is like Slack where peop you can create a private family forum where you can make decisions together, message each other, have different discussion areas about things, upload files, keep track of appointments, have emergency contact. So, it's your family communications hub.

30:52 So, these are all such necessary things for people. So my goal with AgeWise Alliance is for it to be the place where people go to deal with their later life matters.

31:01 So I'm spending a chunk of time on that. Okay that's related. So I appreciate hearing that. So how do you see

31:10 How do you see automation artificial intelligence important topic today so dramatic nationally dramatic nationally. How is it originally operations as a combination of reaction to customers?

31:25 Well, we're kind of lucky because we have such specific in-person services. We're AI proof. So, unfortunately, website de developers, a lot of email marketers, AI is very threatening to their profession. It's going to be a lot of change up in the 10 next 10 years to come. That's for sure. Now, in terms of implementing it, one thing with Hwise Alliance is that for the guide, it's it was suggested to me to just use AI and have AI find the answers and put it together. And I was not satis I did not want to do that because AI, as they say, hallucinates. It makes up things. And you know, people who don't know what to do would not know that. So, what's important is I realized I had to not use AI. Maybe to behind the scenes, you know, put the pieces together for the guide to show it to people, but in terms of the decision- making after people answer the questions, that's based on my 12 years experience. And so all those suggestions are for me. So it's tricky because you know you I want to automate workflows. I want to automate some, you know, c, you know, simple customer requests and support questions ideally and maybe set up some flows for send compil creating email blasts and compiling them, sending them out. Sure, that automation, but in terms of that human touch that is so important to what you and I do,

32:51 You can't replace human beings, right? You know bites and you know binary code can't don't have the human experience to respond in depth

33:03 To what people ask that's how I feel but how do you feel about it yeah I would say I say the technology can turbocharge

33:12 Our time with personship by a lot of computers but there's no substitute there's no substitute for talking to me personally talking personally the more that happens

33:24 More of that happen and there's no competition to that as far as you care to grow and develop your skills develop your skills and that so

33:33 Yeah because I mean there are online platforms like you know that can claim that they can do you know sell your home for you but they're not going to do it with the detail that you do and also understand the underpinnings of the market

33:47 In this moment the way that you do and also know how to negotiate I often feel like and you know you tell me if I'm wrong here, but I often feel like those kinds of sites want to go for the you know they won't get the highest dollar amount for you. That's how I feel.

34:03 Yeah. I would say I would say that they online companies don't hold customer service standards.

34:13 Your problem is if you do a bad job, your customer is going to call you. So you avoid that problem by doing a good job. If you're Google or Facebook or some online service and you're right 95% of the time, you make enough money where the other 5% you don't care. That's why when any of us have problems with Facebook or Google, there's nothing you can do. That's that's what they live for. And we all know I've met real estate agents and mortgage professionals in particular who try to hide behind the technology and you know, they want chat bots to answer questions with their prospective customers. Why would I want somebody who wants to do business with me talking to a chatbot? They want to talk to me. I'm not that busy where I can't talk to a prospective customer. Now, maybe certain types, yes. And but attorneys, no. Of course, I want you to talk to me. So, I think that there are people looking to find the easy way out and they're going to be replaced. And those of us who are want to take on the work and looking for solving customer problems will have more tools with the solution problems. I'll share with you a story for anybody listening. So, I've been I play with AI every day for about half an hour just to learn the tools and systems. So, common experience as a listing agent is I get an offer with all kinds of documents and backup documents. So, I wanted to create a tool where I could forward that to AI and say, you know, list the forms and which boxes are checked and which ones are not checked and summarize it for me, right?

35:36 And if I can get multiple offers, I could make a spreadsheet with it. So, I got an offer in. It was amazing how I took all the forms and made a list of all the forms and had checkboxes listed and it looked great. I was so excited. And so I'm getting ready to call the customer about this particular offer. And I noticed I go, you know, let me just double check this. And you know, one of the key forms is probate. There's a probate purchase addendum. You either check the box or you don't. Either include it or you don't. And the AI had said that they had checked it. It was included. But I noticed it wasn't included. Something I just noticed real quick. Hold it. I don't see that for where is that form? And I realized that the AI didn't see it. It wasn't checked on the form, but it I think wanted to get the right answer. So, put yes because it should have been included.

36:19 So, put yes. Well, you know, maybe that's right if you're taking a test, but if you're really selling a house, that's the wrong answer and could get you in trouble legally.

36:28 So, I think, you know, and then I talked to attorney said, "Well, you just have to check everything yourself." Okay. So, then what time are you really saving? Because if I have to check everything myself, what's the AI really doing for me at that point? So, it's one of those things where it sounds, you know, great. And I'm sure for certain things it's lifechanging.

36:46 But for what I do, still the core things that require my attention still require my attention.

36:54 Yeah. The human touch. Yeah. It's one of these days AI may get to the point where it can do what you were asking it to. Yeah. Something like that

37:04 Because that it you know binary code and bytes should be able to figure that out like checking it's almost like it's like a you know correcting a test you take in school right but in terms of you know it's just that human part of it

37:21 Right I would think that before I figure it out the software companies that I work with that do transactions or the forms will figure out how to harness AI and they'll be able to do that for me. And so if they're not, they're going to get replaced. That's not really my role. My role is not to learn how to do that. My role

37:39 Is to learn how to use the tool effectively when it's available. But I don't think it's my job to develop. I want to be a software developer. It's just not my passion for life.

37:47 But I like playing with it. I do think it's an important skill to have. So I would urge everybody at least to take the time to learn about how to use this. Yeah, you want to be on top of it.

37:56 So, let's talk about the business because business overview like me, you're in West Los Angeles area marketplace, right? And so, in Los Angeles,

38:05 On one hand, we're blessed with high sales prices. On the other hand, our sales are off 30% by unit count. That means our colleagues, you know, my business is great, but there's 30% less real estate agents because so many have gone out of business, but not selling houses. We have clients who are making money in their houses. Other clients who lost their homes to the fires. So where do you see as a businessman your business over the next five years given the environment given the economy or how do you plan for it or do you just not get that involved in it and work out day by day

38:39 In terms of the future I'm lucky our company is lucky because for the next you know there you know the statistic 10,000 baby boomers turning 65 every single day and that started in 2012 it'll go through about 2032. So, we're going to keep having people getting older. That's not going to be an issue at least until 2040. So, in terms of helping older adults and their families, that market is going to be there. Now, more pe now people don't know. Actually, what inspired Age Wise Alliance was several years ago, I was thinking, nobody knows what senior managers do. How do I get the word out? And then I realized people don't know who geriatric care managers are or aging life care specialists. They don't know the difference between a probate attorney and maybe a trust administration attorney. And I realized there are so many services, patient advocates that people don't know about and they need to. It can make their lives so much easier, especially with the later life issues. And so that's how Age wise alliance came into being. And so with senior move management, move management in general, it's a business that's been an industry that's been in its nency. We're about 20 years old or so. Excuse me. I'm actually president of our national association and we're we just had our 20th anniversary conference last year.

40:00 Yeah. But the word is getting out about our industry and what inevitably happens with an industry as you know is that as it matures, people come in and try to commoditize it. In other words, try to sell it for less. Like go only for price which sacrifices a lot of services and a lot of expertise u and I think we can definitely safeguard against that but there's also consolidation which means that you know bigger entities are buying up smaller companies and that is definitely happening no bigger entity has been able to do it very successfully again because it's so hightouch

40:37 Correct and it's hard to maintain the quality of that but there's somebody coming into the arena. Matt Paxton who thankfully I'm lucky he's my buddy so we talk about this stuff all the time but he is going national slowly bit by bit with his own larger company with franchises and so that's an example and people will copy that. So that's what I need to consider with Clear Home Solutions. I thought about franchising years ago. I don't want to do it. I especially in Los Angeles, I like keeping us not too big because then again finding the right people for it. It keeps our company the quality company that it is. We care about quality so much. It's tricky to replicate that in a bigger way. It's very difficult to do. But those are the things that I concern myself with. And so and especially with commoditization with the lower pricing, I know we can all because we are an investment. We acknowledge that. But we can, you know, all my companies are employees. We're completely insured in including workers comp and just the level of experience and training that we do. So I know how to explain the our differentiation in that way. The so we'll see what happens with the consolidation and that sort of thing. Be interesting.

41:56 How about you? Well, I would say for both of us, there's always room for high quality service. And I think as long as I am one who's able to be a resource to families and attorneys and specialists on navigating private residency,

42:09 But I have to stay on my game and I'm constantly trying to learn, meet with people, network, edge services and I enjoy doing that. I think that's the key part also is I'm not looking for the easy way out. I'm looking to be the best at what I do. And I'm not there maybe yet today, but I'm better today than I was yesterday and I'll be better tomorrow. That's all I can really control. I'm just trying to improve your business every day. So, I think as long as you do that in real estate or any other business, at some point, you know, if you're successful at some point, you'll continue to grow and not really worry about

42:39 The competition because there's so many people going to fail behind me. You know, I want to help people. I do all that coaching, but I don't necessarily worry about it. I really try to focus on the things I have to worry about which I do.

42:54 Yeah. Meeting the consumers of the world and clear home solutions and staying with the vendors and knowing who people are and that's how it works.

43:06 That's how it works for me. Yeah. Yeah. And have you written a book yet? I've not I've thought about times,

43:15 I'm telling you. You know, you know what's hilarious? It's like, you know, it's not like it's the New York Times bestseller for six weeks. No. No, it's not. But it's just so funny how you write a book and people say, "You wrote a book. They're so impressed." And yeah, does it take work? You bet.

43:32 Yeah. But it's so worth doing as a professional because it just you get more speaker opportunities and plus it's for me it was a great experience to kind of just revisit all my old stories, put them down somewhere. I know this will

43:47 Yeah, that's Yeah, you can do it. I know you can and it'd be really worthwhile. Every so often I meet people I'm like even with you know all these podcasts you've done.

43:59 Yeah. You know, use them to put the book together. Anyway, I did actually and I said I created an outline and I think part of it is I don't want speaking gigs. I was invited to a convention this year. It was a lot of fun. It was in Irvine. I don't really want to travel. You know, I work hard when I work and I'm done at 4:30 today. I'm go play my grand kids. That's about as much as I want to do. If I speaking out of state somewhere, it would be I'd be missing them. So, but I do like the online part and the podcast has fulfilled that creative outlet for me. But I you know, I can see the advantage of a book. I think it forces you to clarify your thoughts in a way that a podcast does not. So, I've played with it. I've gotten close a few times. We'll see. I just I haven't had the calling to do it like I did the podcast. Doing this is so much fun that I do a couple of these a day. So,

44:47 Well, you're great at it. So, well, you know, this is fun. This is I tell people I work in a in a coal mine. I just talk to people, you know, great successful business people on the phone on a video for half an hour, an hour and that's work. So if I do that, it all works out. Mar, it's always a pleasure chatting and catching up with you. I just thank you so much for all you bring. For those who want more of her the website is clearhomesolutions.com and there's all kinds of, you know, content and ways to reach her and you can get a appointment to get started, get a price consultation. And then her book is on Amazon. How to move your parents and still be on speaking terms. Now that's assuming that they're still with us. My parents are gone. So I don't want to be on speaking terms anymore with my parents. I want to be on memory terms with them. But

45:31 But it can still help you with the practical logistics and I address that and I address after someone's cast a little bit in the book too. Yeah. But also I could be the parents. I want my daughter to speak to us as well. So I think that's part of it is and it's a ch we're experiencing that challenge already. My wife and daughter sometimes go at it and I'm in the middle. You know, I'm sometimes glad my daughter and wife are fighting. Neither's fighting with me. I'm kind of happy that But that's not the way it Switzerland. Yes.

45:57 I try to be. It doesn't really work that way. Then they're both mad at me for not defending them. So, that's a whole another that's a whole another dynamic. Marty, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for all you do and for your education and for being honest today. I really appreciate your time.

46:09 Oh, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure. You're just great. And for everybody else, this is Probate Weekly. We get together every week and talk to either probate attorneys or vendors to help us be more successful in our business. Hopefully today we learned number one a great resource if you know somebody who needs that help moving families in out of their current house into other facilities as well as a business professional who's successful to teach us how to be more successful in our business. You can continue the conversation on our Facebook group probateweekly.com on Facebook looking for referrals questions feel free if you're an attorney or a real estate agent to look for vendors there as well. If I can help at Bill Gross Probate on social media. As always, I'm here to be of assistance. Did you like the episode? You know somebody I should interview, put that in the comments. As always, if I can help, reach out at Bill Gross Probate. Have best day ever. Thank you so