What to Do With the "Stuff": Personal Property in Probate, with Attorney Sam Price

0:00 I moved the mic. Am I still sounding okay? You sound great, Sam. This is This is Bill Gross. This is Probate Weekly, and I'm really excited today. We often talk about the real estate, but today we're going to talk about what to do with all the stuff other than the real estate. And it's a privilege to have back somebody I've been talked to before, Sam Price, one of the leading real estate agents in San Bernino County and throughout Southern California, based in Redlands, where I went to college my freshman year and a couple summers in camp. Sam Price, thanks for joining us today. Bill, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me on the podcast.

0:32 So, what are the challenges of the non-real estate? I mean, there's a whole list of things that it can be. I've dealt with a bunch of them myself. So, but you as the attorney, when you talk to a prospective client in the beginning or sign up and they you start the process, what's the conversation about this stuff look like?

0:48 You know, first off, everyone's really hyperfocused on the real estate and rightly so. That's the 800 pound gorilla in a regular probate matter. But what I typically find is that the average probate matter consists of a house, a bank account, and a car. But what many of us forget about is the stuff. And the stuff I'm talking about is what we lawyers call tangible personal property. So it is the contents of the home. Things like your furniture, your equipment, the tools in the garage, all these things that your clothing, your jewelry, your shoes, it's all of your stuff. And typically, that stuff what I find is the sticking point sometimes in probate matters. Most people are in agreement that the house needs to be sold. If mom passed away and had four children, then each one gets a fourth. No one wants 1/4 of a house that they don't live in. They want their money. Are you finding that to be true as well, Bill, with houses? Yeah. Though often there's the one child who's living in the house who was the caregiver and wants to live there for free as long as they can, and that creates some problems. But in general, if nobody's living in the house, yeah, they just want the money. Sell it and get me the money as easily and efficiently as much as you can.

2:16 Absolutely. And so, the reality of the world today is that many people don't have the money to move out of the house and they may not have the money to buy the house. And so, there's some sticking point there, but that's probably for another day. Today, if we're just talking about, okay, mom passed away, we need to she's got a bunch of stuff in the house. What do we do with it? And so kind of the big picture of what we do with the stuff is first off, if there are certain items that any of the heirs or beneficiaries of the estate want, we want to get that to them. They're entitled to those things. And mostly people are looking for sentimental items. They're looking for things that have a memory to them. Some type of family heirloom, that type of a photo albums, that kind of stuff. Meaningful property and they should be able to come and get it. And then there needs to be some type of way that is fair to everyone that if they're getting some of these items that these items can be if more than one person wants the same item, there needs to be some fair way that they can get what they want. Sometimes we go round robin. Sometimes we do eeny meenie miny mo. Sometimes we flip a coin. Whatever is fair to everyone and that should be a discussion about what's fair to you about how we determine who gets the lamp. If you want the if two people want the lamp once we've distributed out and given this personal property we next we'll sell whatever is sellable. We'll have an estate sale, we'll have sale. Well, before we go there, let's stop at the prior piece, which is distributing. And the phrase you phrase you used was we'll do what's fair.

4:06 Yes. Who decides what's fair? We all get together, don't we? I mean, there needs to be some way either we give them some options and say, we're not going to split the lamp in two, but what we could do is, why don't what would be fair to you to determine who gets the lamp? Should we all take turns of getting one thing out of the house that we want? And how which turn everyone has? Do we throw dice? Do we pick straws? Whatever way is fair to everyone that everyone feels is right. I've had some heirs that say, you know what, my sister's older. I'll let my sister pick first. That's cool. And if everyone was cool with that, then everyone's cool with that. What happens when somebody's not cool with that? What happens when because oftentimes I find in probate there's a strange family members and there's unresolved hostilities from 30 years ago. I live that my mother went through that when her mother passed away and she and her father had this resentment over an item that she thought she was entitled to. So oftentimes I know there are times there are conflicts. As attorney you're not the adjudicator, you're the attorney giving legal advice.

5:23 So what do you tell an administrator who calls you up or clients who's saying, "Gee, I you know, there's my two brothers are fighting over the lamp." and I can't seem to get them to be fair. At the end of the day, who decides what fair is? Is it is it up to the administrator within reason to make those decisions or how do you advise them?

5:41 So, keeping in mind that my client is the personal representative of the estate, there is a fiduciary duty there, the highest duty under the law to act in others person's best interest. And so, keeping in mind that they have a fiduciary duty to act in everyone's best interest, they can't favor one person over another, even if it's themselves. Maybe even they might even want it as an heir to the estate. But so there needs to be some way if we can't resolve it at the time. So, sometimes we've been at the house and everyone's picking up items and two people want the same lamp. Well, you know what? Why don't we set the lamp aside for now and then let's come up with the way that is fair to everyone. Or maybe you'll trade the lamp for the photo album

6:22 And so you'll be fine to do that trade. There's got to be some way. Okay, you get the lamp and I'll take the photo album. There has to be some way to do it. And this is a discussion. This is a negotiation. And so, but if you've got an item like a lamp, only one person can really have that lamp, I tell you. But sometimes you have situations where we've done this with photos. Hey, can we scan all these pictures? Would you be fine with rather than having the physical, you know, fading? Do you remember that Polaroid pictures like these 1970s, right?

7:00 I have a bunch of family photos from 1970s and 60s even. I'm older than you, so I've got older than that. Sure. So, you know, do you really want that or can we just scan it and maybe even digitize it to you and you could put it on that nice new we have these electronic ways to see photo albums that you put on your nightstand.

7:25 So, there's different ways and what is fair to everyone can be different things. Maybe the guys bid for it. Hey, you know what? Instead of having it distributed, why don't we each pay an amount of money for it? You know what? The lamp, I'll pay 80 bucks. Really? I'll pay 100. Okay. Well, you could have it for 100. Depends. Depends on what would be the right and fair thing for each person because at the end of the day, only one person could have the lamp. So, what that fair way is something that again that everyone would be okay with. But the end of the day, we need to get the house to empty. So now we agreed on the

8:04 So now we've agreed on the personal items that have sentimental or value that we want to keep and now we have items that nobody particularly wants but we'd like to sell.

8:13 So if we could but if I could talk a little bit more about receiving items. So typically most things don't have a value to them. They'll have sentimental value, emotional value, but they don't have an economic value because everything is used stuff. During COVID, you couldn't give stuff away. Goodwill wouldn't take your couch during COVID. So, some of these things had no value to them. And a lot of the things that people would want are going to be no economic value. But if it does have an economic value, then we need to be able to value that property and what they receive is going to be a portion of their inheritance. So I want to give some examples of what I'm talking about. If mom had a diamond ring and we need to someone wants the diamond ring, if we get it appraised and hopefully this appraisal is close in value to what the true value of the ring is because if the value of the ring is $5,000, but it's appraised at $8,000, everybody wants it because, oh, I could take it for 5,000, but I can sell it for eight. Oh, are you kidding me? Give me the ring. I'll take it. But if the appraisal is off the other way, if the appraisal says 5,000, but really it's only worth 2,000.

9:43 Well, people like, "What? That ring is it's only worth two grand. I'm not going to pay 5,000 for it. Why don't you go sell it for five and give us the money?" But in reality, if we could get a $5,000 ring with a $5,000 appraisal, and I'm always baffled by these appraisals, right? I mean, anything is only ever worth what someone would pay for it.

10:04 Yes. But, because an appraisal is part art and part science, but it's not exact. And you find someone who's willing to pay that money, then you don't really have a really good value. But as best we can some of these items that have a value to them, if we're distributing them, then we need to be able to value them so that people can take them at that value unless we they're just sentimental value. Now, the probate code is pretty clear that the personal representative can exercise the power to dispose or abandon tangible personal property without court authorization. I want to quote the co the probate code section that says that's probate code section 9781. So long as the property is not specifically devised in a will. So if there's a will that gives a specific gift of that property you have the administrator's obligated to comply with the terms of the will. But if there's no will that gives a specific gift, then the personal representative can collect, maintain, and safeguard property and or abandon it or dispose of it if keeping it would exceed its value. And so sometimes it that's often the case. I mean, gosh, how many people have a self- storage unit full of stuff? And the cost of keeping the self- storage unit is more than the value of the stuff inside the unit.

11:34 And so oftentimes you need to get rid of this stuff in some way. If people watch have you ever seen storage wars where they buy these abandoned storage units and but they only show ones with interesting stuff in it because that's makes good television. The ones are worth nothing you know which is 90% of them 95% of them as I understand it you know they don't show it so people have this inflated sense of what stuff is worth you know it's that's a challenge I think I often find that people expect well we have a house full of stuff it must be worth5 $10,000 no it actually would cost 200 to get rid of most of that stuff to be honest

12:11 Bill I'm a normal person when I die you might as well just back up a trash truck to the front door and just throw away everything in the house. You would you'd be like, "Sam, why did you keep all that stuff? It's junk, right?" I mean,

12:25 Most of the stuff in my own house will probably be just trash when I'm gone. So, that's the gist of it is we want to

12:33 Feel the same way. It's really we have a connection issue here. Sorry, buddy.

12:46 Can you hear me? Yeah. Okay, I think we're good. So, you know, more or less the stuff in your house, if any of the heirs can come and get it and they want that stuff, keep track of what they've gotten. But, you know, if it's sentimental value, I wouldn't bother inventorying or praising appraising it. If it's something that does have value, then we do need to inventory that and that is a part of their inheritance.

13:16 One of the fun parts in personal property that I deal with sometimes is guns. You just can't walk in a house and take you can but it creates some problems. People do. People do. People have, in my experience, I'm not naming names unless I'm put oath. I'm I'll take the fifth, I guess. But people have and there's a process particularly in California, particularly in certain cities, LA County. So what do you advise administrators in those cases do? Obviously in most cases I've been involved with the cost to transfer the gun is not worth the value of the weapon. It's just cheaper to turn into the police for zero cost. But what do you recommend?

13:56 Yeah. So the thing the two things I never find in any estates are guns and cash. Oh, wow. Basically, you're right. Think about

14:06 I've had I've found I've had estate sale companies find cash and turn over to us. I can two cases seems and I was amazed like they found couple thousand dollars in one case of cat, a couple hundred in another case and they turn over to us and they went through the house and found stuff and yeah, it's but generally you're right that's not there. You're not going to don't expect anybody to turn over the cash. It's, you know, yeah,

14:34 If we're following the law, what we're supposed to do is inventory all assets down to the change in the decedent's pocket when they die.

14:42 But in reality, you know, practically that doesn't really happen. And so, when it comes to the stuff, we're creating categories. We're not going to inventory every spoon in the house. What we're going to do is create the category of furniture and furnishings, clothing and shoes, costume jewelry, tools and equipment in the garage. There's broad categories of what we're creating are creating an inventory of those items. We've got to inventory and appraise those items. And so what does a probate referee do with these categories? They unless they have much information about what the value is, these categories get a broad value. I'm usually seeing somewhere between $2 to $3,000 for all the contents of a house. On an inventory and appraisal, I'm not really seeing a huge value. And you know, again, you have to not think of the replacement value, not think of what the cost was to purchase that item new. What is the garage sale prices value of this used stuff inside the house? And

15:53 One of the challenges I imagine is if you know, value the stuff at $2,000 and somebody says, "Well, I'll take all of that." They're paying $2,000 out of the distribution for that, right?

16:03 Yeah. Like storage wars. You could have your own little storage wars about I'll pay 2,000 for all the stuff in the house. But see, all those people had like stores where they're reselling all those items. I've been approached by numerous companies that purport to take this process and put it online, whether they're going to inventory it all and sell it online or other formats. I'm sure they must have approached you as well. Do you use any services in particular that help you with the distribution of the inventory of it and distribution of personal property and then the ultimate sale of it? Yeah, we do have we have used certain estate sale companies. But again, as I'm saying, I'm not seeing a whole lot of value in that on a typical house. If there was something of real value, maybe that stuff is gone already or they've removed that think those things from the house to safeguard them. And I'm sorry, I totally blew over the guns question.

17:00 And when it comes to firearms again any transfer of a firearm should really go through a licensed dealer. Even transporting the item can have liability and u they need to be transported properly. And so the when it comes to firearms most people when they have firearms in their family that most people are very familiar with them. They come in two camps. Either very familiar with them or they don't want to have anything to do with them. And again, for to get rid of them and you don't want anything for them, you could always bring them to the law enforcement

17:37 And they can dispose of them. The second item would be to sell them through a licensed dealer,

17:48 Which is again for nice collectible or exotic pieces, there's money there. But my experience is the guy had, you know, an old 3 327 revolver or semi Mac pistol in his house. It's worth a couple hundred bucks. It's worth about that to get the license transfer fee in California these days. So, some of that I will offer anybody who wants to know. I kind of enjoy helping people who are in that pickle. If you have some guns, you know what to do with them, transport them legally and safely. I know how to do that and I've done that many times. So, one good reason to pick me as a Realtor® is I can help you get rid of guns and take them to the, law enforcement if that's what's required. So,

18:25 That's perfect. There's so many restrictions on not just the type of firearm. But also on who can receive it.

18:34 Yes. And, there's it's so many rules. I don't I don't even know all the rules. I just know there's a lot of problems. I say, you know, it's all solved by going to a licensed dealer. Can be Yeah. Yeah. I mean they'll and oftenimes they can you know the challenge there though is you can't take the gun and give it to the licensed dealer, right? You have to sell it to them. You can give it to the law enforcement and they'll dispose of it. So kind of just my experience 99% of the time 90% of the time I've people had guns unless they were collectible or exotic historical pieces they're worth about as much as the transfer is these days. And it's hard to get any money out of that. So, okay. So, there's that. And then at the end, you have seal stuff, you have valuable stuff, you've sold the valuable stuff, you're left with stuff. Somebody's got to get rid of that. So, what's that process look like? The administrator or executive are

19:38 Need to as is, right? Yeah. So, kind of the decision tree kind of is to first comes and beneficiaries, come get what you want. We'll figure out a nice friendly way to divvy up all the stuff. Number two, let's sell what we can, whether that and there's a lot of different methods to and options of how to sell all the stuff. Third would be let's donate what we can give away. Maybe we might get be able to get a little write off in order to donate items and whatever we can't donate we will throw away and so there is a type of notice and I don't see a lot of people doing this I sometimes do this in the state sometimes I don't depends on the assets and the beneficiaries you know how friendly we are with everybody but there is something called a notice of proposed dist dispos disposition or abandonment let me say that again, notice of proposed disposition or abandonment. And this is under probate code section 9780 at SEC. And this notice is different from a notice of proposed action. It's only a 10day waiting period, but you're telling the heirs of the estate what you're going to do with the stuff. So, you could tell them exactly this four-step process. We would like for you all to come together on a certain day and we'll all come and get the things that we would like. If the that day isn't convenient for everyone, we could rescheduled to a day when everyone is because we want to be open and transparent about what we're doing with the personal property. And if there isn't some type of agreement, we'll set the something aside. So we give everything away. What we don't give away, we're going to sell. And what we can't sell, we're gonna donate. And what we can't donate, we're going to throw away. So, this can be in that notice of proposed disposition or abandonment. And

21:44 It's something I typically create on pleading paper. And what I'll do is, I'll send one to you, Bill, so that you can, maybe upload that to the show notes so that, someone could see what this might look like. But it's if you personally serve you can give five days notice, but if you mail it, which I typically do, it's a 10-day notice period.

22:06 And so that kind of covers administrator that there's no, you know, this is the process and abide by it and if not, forever hold your peace.

22:16 Exactly. Right. And right, every time we're giving notice, we are communicating about what we're doing with an estate. And besides communicating, we are also giving the proper notice that if you have a problem with me trashing out the house, it's cool. Come get what you want because it's cheaper for you to come get it than me to have to pay someone to trash it out.

22:43 You know, increasingly when a property is being bought by an investor in negotiation process, I'll try to find a way to get them to buy it with whatever trash is left. Because to trash it out, the last, you know, bit, the last of the material in the house,

22:59 It costs more than people would ever imagine these days. The cost of the labor's gone up, the restrictions on dumping and all that. And so whereas in the past, it might be a,500 bucks. You I got a quote the other day for one for $15,000. Now that they had left a lot of the furniture and other things as well, but I'm saying that it's gone up about three times since COVID. And so increasingly now we're trying to sell the property with the trash accepted rather than floor swept is the default in the contract just to save the state money because if a contractor's buying it, they're going to have a team anyhow. They're going to rip out the cabinets, the furniture, I mean the flooring and the whatever walls they're going to do. For them to trash out is easier. Do you is that something that you're okay with or you would advise an administrator to consider if they're not going to keep the property?

23:44 Certainly. And so if the idea is that we aren't going to distribute any of these things, it's not sellable, certainly you can say, "Hey, buyer, if you'll take the property with all the stuff in it, then it'll save us from having to trash it out." And you know, you're right. Like most people just think, "Oh, I'll get two guys in a truck." Well, I don't know. I don't know. It's not as easy as if it only was that simple. It's not.

24:13 Well, you can't go to Home Depot and get two guys anymore. That's a whole another discussion we're not going to go into. There wasn't time. You go to Lowe's or Home Depot, you get two guys and you give them whatever and you buy them lunch and a couple hundred bucks each and you're good. Not today in Los Angeles at least. I know it's like in Redlands, but not in Los Angeles today. It's not

24:31 Well, I don't think that anybody's hanging around home people looking for work like that. You're going to find trouble. You have people honking at you and chasing you out. They're probably calling you ice. I think in LA, that's a whole another level.

24:42 So if you had to summarize, I mean, I know you have a very active practice. What are the one or two areas that involve personal property that you see most of the conflict over? What's the typical most common fight, you know, that gets escalated where it comes to you and you actually have to get involved as an attorney to help resolve the matter?

25:03 I would say it's two things. Number one, it's one person having access to the house and someone not having access to the house. And so, typically, maybe someone else lived nearby and they helped, mom or dad out a lot and then they, had some way to get in the house because they had a key or what have you and they have access. But then there's some other child that didn't have the same access and is very accusatory of you've had access to the house. What was in there? Is stuff missing? I don't know. It's I find not being open and transparent is the is the real problem. The communication, the idea that well, I don't know what's there, so are you hiding something from me,

25:52 Right? And there might be nothing being hidden there. Oftentimes, I don't think there is, but it's just this idea of it's about trust, isn't it? I think that there's some type of loss of trust there,

26:06 Right? And I think some of these relationships come in with a lack of trust and you have to work to earn the trust. I think I try to tell people, you know, trust like a bank account. It's zero until you put something in it. And if you start off with disclosing and communicating and sharing and documenting, you're putting some deposits to create some trust. And if you don't do that and you say, "Well, trust me, I'm honest." Well, every thief says they're honest. That's I think part of the challenge.

26:32 So yeah, I think those are those are common issues. It's it is not any one thing. It's just the relationship. Mom and dad had the crown jewels of England, but where'd they go? How why didn't you find them? Well, they probably did have the crown jewels in their closet, but who knows? And so if you were,

26:48 If I could give another example, so my friend I'm sorry, my the an estate I was involved in. So I represent the personal representative and his brother passed away and his friend mentioned that the friend of the deedent said, "Oh, we always talked about stock. I wonder if he had any stock." And you're like, "Gosh, I don't know if he had any stock." So what he wanted was he wanted access to the deed's iPhone and that little code, the little beep and then open the phone. That's what he wanted. But Apple doesn't give that out to anybody. You remember that federal case? Do you remember there? They're terrorists in San Frernardino and then they had the iPhone. They you know the federal government was telling Apple to unlock the phone and they said no, we don't do that. And they the federal government eventually found a company that hacked the phone that opened it. But Apple was not going to give you that number and they won't give it to you.

27:43 Imagine that. Yeah. Yeah. The federal government hacked jailbreak somebody's phone. Imagine a hacker. Yeah, if you if you if you all think there's a way to get into anybody's phone, you're just living in a dream world. I mean there are phones that are encrypted phones that you know military uses and such, but there's a general rule. Yeah. So that's interesting question. So that's part of the nonreal property also is getting access. I know for me, I won't give out too many details, but I have everything online and I have a plan. I have a password protected thing and then I have a place with a password. And I was just talking to my daughter and son-in-law the other day about it. Well, yeah, but and they have a they have a procedure where somebody passes and you give them a death certificate and you give them letters administration, they will forward you the master password of the deceit and as long as you told them ahead of time, that's what you wanted. But a lot of people, you don't have that access. What do you do to get access to things online or can you? And that's what we were trying to do is you know you could have access to someone's for example Apple ID but all that's going to tell you are things like give you access to pictures and videos and things like that.

28:58 Right even to access someone's email there's different levels of access. There's one level of access that just gives you basically your inbox. A list of all your emails who they're from, the date, time, and the subject, but not access to the email itself. That's a whole another different level of access. And so this Rufata, if you've heard of Rufata, I forget revised uniform digital assets. I can't remember what it is, but it's this ru digital information. But what you're describing is if you create a legacy contact with Google or Apple or wherever you've got your digital accounts that legacy contact should be able to contact to access it. But if you don't create a legacy contact in my experience, they want a court order and you can only get that by doing filing a request with the court to get that access.

30:03 So even administration aren't sufficient. You need a specific court order for that company to be ordered to provide information. Yeah. So, for example, I've had a client, her husband passed, it was her ex-husband, and then her two children wanted memories, videos, pictures from his iPhone. And we although she had letters of administration, she could not access that from Apple. And we had to file a motion to access that. And we had to serve Apple in Cupertino. It was crazy. Wow.

30:36 We had to serve them for the hearing and then we had to serve them with the order and then they gave her access. And they must have a an army of attorneys handling these requests, right? There must it must you can't have been the only one they ever requested this. There must be plenty of people who need this overtime.

30:52 I wonder people ask for it. I mean, most of my clients don't request that. But I have had a couple cases in which they said, you know, I really want this. But if you want the little boop, open the iPhone. Yeah. They will not give that. You can't have a court order for that.

31:11 Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I guess I can imagine that would be a challenge. And now sometimes you don't know their assets. I've worked with heir finders, heir research companies. Do you work with some of them? Are there effective? Is there one you want to pitch or shout out to? Or is it they're all different? Or how do you when you know there might be assets, what do you do to try to find them? You don't know what stock company it's at, but you know there's probably some money somewhere.

31:40 There's just a few things that we are able to do. Of course, we should be getting the decedent's mail and not forwarded mail. So, if you have, for example, a bank account, a checking, savings, cash account that typically if you're getting the statements in the mail, they typically say do not forward.

32:04 And the reason why is the bank wants to know that you moved. And so, it will be returned to them. Return to do not forward, return to sender. It goes back to the bank. The bank is like, "Oh, well, this person doesn't live here anymore. Where is our depositor? So if you can get the actual mail, like if you go to the person's house and get the mail or the post office box, then that's better than forwarding. But forwarding is second best to try to capture some of the statements that you might receive in the mail. But if they have e statements, they don't get paper statements, but they get them electronically, that's much more difficult to do it that way. Some of the things that we do to find assets is we look in the unclaimed property office. It's part of the California controllers office and so they have and I've done it for myself. Have you ever done that, Bill? Have you ever looked up your own name on the same property?

32:56 Yes. Yes. I found my I had like $120. Yeah. Yeah. From some insurance policy I had like 30 years or 20 years ago and I found it. Yeah. No, it's legitimate.

33:09 Correct. So, I've found something similar for myself on an old insurance policy that I had a premium that was overpaid and I was money was due. So, it's like finding extra money in the couch, right? It's like, hey, I didn't have that found money.

33:23 Yeah. It's like the funnest money you ever get is a check in the mail for something you forgot about. Yeah. Exactly. And then there is for insurance policies and annuities because annuities are issued by insurance companies. There is the National Association of Insurance Commissioners. I think that's the NAIC. They have a website and you can put in someone's information and they will tell you which insurance companies that person had a policy or an annuity with. And so that takes some time. You get a response by email. So in situations which we think that the deedent might have had an insurance policy or an annuity we can search their website for that.

34:10 Have you ever used any individual like investigators or heir inheritance advance inheritance research companies to find money?

34:19 Not for assets but for people we have. So if we don't quite know where someone is like we someone know someone's name and their relationship but we don't have their address we've used those services or if we don't know all the heirs that might be of a person we've also used their services u that can get really pricey I think probably on the low end you're talking $200 on the high end thousands

34:44 So if you have international thousands yeah I've been a mist in two cases. One, we had to use a company and try to find where the heirs were and they charge like I think 12% or 16% of the inheritance. But in this case, they each got about $100,000. So, you know, I'm up for that phone call. Hey, if anybody else knows I have I have money coming in that I don't know about, feel free to call me and I'll pay you 12% for that.

35:14 I'll take that, too. Just don't tell me I'm like the heir to a Nigerian prince or I don't know what these scams are that not legitimate. Yeah.

35:25 Yeah. No, not that. For sure. Not that. Well, and in my case essentially my last name, Gross, is actually very common. My grand my grandfather is one of 11 kids. I can't track any of them past my grandfather. So, somewhere in the world, I'm sure I have some air airship of some sort. Not that I'm necessarily I'd like to meet them rather than the money side of it, but I'm not against getting the money if I'm the only heir. Again, feel free to give me a call. My phone number's down below. Sam, look, we kind of a little over time. I always enjoy talking to you. I learned so much. I know that among my things, you're the I think the chair of the San Bernardino Estate Planning Council. I get I'm a member there. I get your email. I get you know that. But also for anybody who's interested, of course, you want more Sam Price, pricelawfirm.com is his website and I'll put down below as well his contact information and phone number [phone number] and the priceelawfirm.com. But don't miss out on probate notes. And you know I loved when I saw the name of this because if you're involved with probate in the procedure side of it maybe not this is a little inside baseball for attorneys or for real estate agents the whole game is the probate notes and that's the name of your podcast. So is that I've listened to a couple I think there's one out recently in particular I heard Thomas talk about the loans to the estate and to a fantastic podcast.

36:51 You do a great job. Thank you buddy. Coming from you. That's a huge compliment. And yeah, probate Notes. We're coming out with new episodes every Tuesday. And so we're available on Apple Podcast as well as Spotify.

37:04 Yeah, definitely. And so again, pricelawfirm.com is a website. Phone number down below is best number [phone number]. Sam Price, one of the leading attorneys in San Bernardino County in Redlands. Again, a kind of a fun spot on my heart for Redlands. Thank you so much for joining us today. They learn so much from you all the time.

37:24 I appreciate you, Bill. Thank you so much. And for everybody else, this is Probate Weekly. We get together every week and talk to leading primarily probate attorney attorneys, but also vendors and professionals in the field to learn how to better serve our customers on in the area of probate, trust administration, as well as litigation. If I can help, please reach out. My phone number down below, Bill Gross Probate on social media. If you like this, please like it. If you have comments or you want to be interviewed or you know somebody you should be, put that in the comments as well.