High Tech, High Touch Referrals, with Joel Epstein

0:00 High-tech low touch equals no money and hi touch low Tech equals big money and you know now I say High-Tech high touch and meaning that touch you know the best agents the best mortgage people in the space have mastered touch and Tech and the ones that are just All Tech are not as successful as the ones that have mastered touch and Tech because there's a lot of cool tech for everyone use now and I find you know when you lean on it too much and you take the touch away that's when either You're vulnerable to one of these big companies like I heard you talking about on your I don't know it's your weekly podcast which I always just love listening to for me it's just a full crack up I mean in a good way I love I always listen to it I think you were going on talking about Zillow and you know that's how you get love D that but that's how you get you know taken over by the tech if you if you let it take you over and I tell agents all the time Bill I say you know you can sit if you're doing your job right and someone you know or maybe a client or referral source is sitting in their house in their slippers pounding prco all night long all over the internet looking at every different type of you know whatever they're in I Zillow red finin it doesn't matter what they're in and they're getting pounded with phone calls and emails from all of these agents that paid to be in there they could still wake up in the morning and just call you and say hey Bill it's say suzu oh hey how are you hey I have a house that I really want you to show me like it that overcomes all of that Tech if you're in their head the right way and sometimes agents kind of look at me and they're like you're wrong and I say okay we can agree or disagree but I'm pretty sure I'm right because it doesn't who wants a Brazillian cold calls you know in that Tech they'd rather have the touch but then again you need to use the tech with

2:02 The touch so sorry that was a little quick little quick H talk but no and I think I no I think it's right on point so let me break it down a little bit because you know obviously we've worked together and I know a lot of what your code words mean one of the phrases that you taught me was red light ready and what now you primarily coach mortgage agents what it means to me as a Realtor® is I need to be able to get a contract signed anywhere I'm at which could mean in my car well describe there's a there's a many Technologies right there's AI to write stupid brochures and there's you know SL mail fake text messages that's not what you mean when you say red light ready and being high-tech what high-tech specifically do mortgage agents or real estate agents need to master in order to be effective with their customers in your op well I mean first of all you know people have been talking about we used to call it a database forever ago okay and now the hot sexy word is CRM there's probably an even sexier word I'm probably aging myself even calling it a CRM a customer relationship management system okay the reality of it is Bill I don't know about you but I'm around some really good real estate agents all the time and I'm a lot I'm around a lot of really good loan officers and anyone that's really good at their job the last place they ever want to be is inside a CRM I already know they're not going to use it in fact the best ones I work with best agents I work with Bill real estate agents I don't even let them use it they send a text to someone else that uses it that then puts information in but the one thing they can use is that thing that's in their hand all day long and I so I just said this to a group of agents and Rh Island last week they were cracking up I said I bet you'd leave your three-year-old at the mall before you'd leave that mall without your phone so let's talk about that phone that's glued to your hand and let's talk about what's in that phone and you know whether you have whether you're using Droid technology or apple technology I think agents overwhelmingly use apple but it doesn't matter what technology you're using those contacts in your phone are your walking CRM that you used to looking at all day

4:07 Long and what I find when I meet new agents is when I when I when I look in their contacts they're usually a baby dumpster fire and they really can't use them effectively and when I use the term red light ready bill you know red light ready means you're sitting in red light you can actually do something productive in the minute it takes for that light to go from red to Green but most it's not just agents loan people everyone they're too disorganized and I tell people all the time Bill people I work with one-onone if you ever say to me I need my laptop we're in a large fight like I don't want to hear it that you need your laptop to do something yes I understand Bill there are certain things you do need your laptop to do I get it but don't tell me you need your laptop to get someone's email address or a phone number or something like that to me is career Insanity I don't know who's doing I mean I don't even get that like who would do that and so red light ready be like 40,000 feet and I go super deep on this and you know some of my classes and things like that is being prepared you know you've heard me say this a million times you know I can't see everyone I can only see the one guy in you right now Stan well I could see Stan but Stan went somewhere and you know I tell people stand up Stan you're already up stay up Stan stay up Stan you're already up turn around look at your chair if your chair looks like an imprint or your ass you're failing because you're not supposed to be sitting in your chair you're supposed to be out doing stuff you know agents go out and do stuff they don't sit in their chair and print money it doesn't work like that it's a people business and so you know we have these phones we have these things bill has more than one probably or they all go to one number I don't know he's always tricky about it but we all have these things in our hands all day and I bet Bill what do you think because you're way more tactical than me I've asked you for help a bazillion times are you using 3% of your phone maybe 2% of what's actually what this thing can do and I just teach agents hey you got these contacts in there you're using it all day long to make phone calls why are they not set up

6:11 In a way that you can in a minute between red light and a green light do something productive make one phone call send one text maybe even you're sending an email I don't know what you're doing but something you know productive and Bill I'll say this to your group everyone should write this down every single day whenever you're done 5 o' 6 o'clock it doesn't matter what you should be saying to yourself is what have I done today to deepen an existing relationship with a referral source or develop a new one you notice how I didn't say sell a house or take a new listing I did not say that what have I done today to deepen an existing relationship with a referral source a referral partner or develop a new one period And I don't care if you took three new listings for me I just said this to an agent yesterday Bill Who had who took seven new listings this week I asked her what she did yesterday I said fail she started laughing at me I said it's a fail that's a Joel fail I don't care I don't care if you have seven new listings don't care you didn't push referrals forward at all and your job is not to list houses your job is to get referrals which then create listings well hold on a second now guys I should have started with that I went you where I wanted to go and I left out step one anybody who's ever seen Joel in person the first time he has an amazing exercise where he asks you what your job is and what's amazing is and now I've come to assume this because I've seen you speak in person many times I know the answer and that's what I work on but in the room nobody ever gets the answer right who hasn't heard you already before that's right so those are listening that most you guys don't have your cameras on feel free to type in what is your job as a real estate agent or what's your job as a attorney what's your job if you're you know account executive for vendor in the probate space what's your job and if you're listening to watching this and we get a couple people watch this every week s that going to write down what is your job because here's the thing it's

8:15 Wrong Jo all turn over to you what is not their job and what is their job I love your job your job is to find people who know people who need you become best friends with those people and get them to ref refer the people that need you to you your job is to get referrals but your real job is stand said relationship building correct is to create a set of new best friends who can refer you people that need you so this covers I don't care whether you're doing mortgages real estate title it doesn't really matter who's ever listening right now your job is to create referral partners that is your job that's your job all day and the best agents that do this all day long have so much business they don't know what to do with themselves and you know then I love when agents bill they you know they come to me and they're well Joel you don't understand what we're doing all day we're so busy I'm like all right I dare you to pay me to watch you for one day because I'll strip away 90% of the stuff you're doing because you shouldn't even be doing it because it's not pushing your business forward you just think you're supposed to you just think you're supposed to do it we can get someone else to do all this stuff not the core activities I'm not one of those guys but I know there's a lot of people in my space that are like you should be working two hours a week you should be on vacation three weeks out of every month you know this total crap they blow at agents all day long like they make them think you can do this job not working that's not what I'm saying at all what I'm saying is you guys are working on the wrong stuff okay meaning you're busy with the wrong stuff you know Bill you know we have a friend in common you know I'll just name him as the California Guy Brian mow one of the greatest things he ever said me is Joel my the biggest trick to my business is I work eight hours a day I'm like what do you mean he goes I work eight hours he goes but Joel I actually work eight hours like I don't work an hour and then go eat 10 donuts and go to lunch right like I'm actually working for the full hours so listen your job is

10:18 To build a set of new best friends that become your referral partners that can refer you people that need you the thing about real estate is you guys have it all backward you guys get all rewarded on all these deals you do and your GCI and how much money you make which is great it's awesome but what I'm concerned about is who referred you that business okay you could sell a house to someone you know if you're in California where Bill is you could sell you could sell a shack and make a huge commission where Bill is for a shack okay I'm sure there's people from all over the country on here right now but you could you could literally make a lot of money on one transaction and never hear from that seller or buyer again for the rest of your career okay but yet you go in your CRM and you label them as an A in your CRM because you sold them a house that is not what I call an important person in my CRM the only people I care about in my CRM are people that are actively referring me business it's not the deals I did unless it crosses and the guy I sold the house to I sold Bill a house and Bill loves me and Bill's actively referring me people okay then Bill's in that category but if I just sold Bill a house and I made a $50,000 commission I don't label him as important to me based on how much I made that's not how I'm going to do it ever I think one of the things one the byproducts I don't know that you talk about this so much but I know I experience it is I coach real estate agents as well on my team who are so focused on doing the wrong activities that generate some business right cold calling generates some business the problem is the business it generates is so miserable and so timec consuming because you're selling strangers all day long every deal is another stranger every deal you have to convince them you're not going to rip them off versus referred business is so much easier the process is just simpler I think that's the hidden bypro where people say they work hard they shouldn't be working that hard that's probably a sign that they're working too hard and on the wrong things yeah I call I call it a cookie listing you know Bill one of the questions I

12:21 Ask groups of Agents all the time is I say raise your hand if you have a if you have an active listing right now and literally you would like to put a hit out on the seller like literally you hate the seller at that level it's the most miserable seller in the history of the world and a bunch of hands will go up and then I will say to them leave your hand up if it was a cold lead or a relative and all the hands stay up every single time and I call it a cookie listing bill and the way I explain it is how many times how many of you all have gone in on a listing appointment or a listing presentation whatever you want to call it and you walk in the door and they look at you and they go Bill we've been waiting for you to come over this is so exciting our good friend suszie Q said you're awesome they said basically do what you say CU you're going to get this done and they're going to make the most money and it's going to be seamless and whatever where do I have to sign w a cookie Bill and in 10 minutes the listing is signed you're eating homemade cookies and on minute 11 you're walking around the house already staging and moving things around yeah can we move this bookcase over there this room will look a little bigger whatever versus this list where you're talking to the person they go yeah bill can you come over at one absolutely yeah don't park in the driveway I'm going to need to save that space for the two o'clock person you know and you walk in the door and you know the house is worth well Bill we use your area 1.4 and you walk in the door and they eyelock you and go yeah we're thinking one nine okay and then literally you're sitting there for an hour of your life in probably the most heinous pain you would ever have you know from a cold you know and there's plenty of people that would say oh Joel I don't mind talking to 100 people to get one deal you know or to get two deals or whatever it is and I'll say you know what cool you don't mod match with me that's great but it's gonna be hard for me to help you I want to talk to 10 people and do eight deals I don't wanna I don't want to talk to a 100 people to have three people say maybe and two people say -huh and one person say okay and then that whole okay is literally the worst experience of

14:23 Everyone's life because all they do is literally give you a hard time the whole time which is what you were just referring to and Bill when new agents have to do that stuff but I mean I have a whole plan for New agents where we don't even do that right away we do make calls but we're calling other people but I just think Bill that real estate is a lot easier than people make it they make they like they try to make it really hard by doing it the wrong way and unfortunately there's a lot of people that teach in my space and when you teach I learned this from very effective good teachers a long time ago when you're teaching huge groups some people stuff you have to take it down to the lowest level and give them stuff that every person can do and it's why bill for me and Bill you and I have had this conversation multiple times alone where you have wanted me to expand and do things in a certain way and I could not wrap my head around it because I felt like I was teaching people stuff they weren't even going to do and I would rather keep the group smaller with people that mod match with me because my own satisfaction I know they're going to go do it you know I know there these agents all over the country that are killing it that if you go talk to them they'll be like yeah I'm just doing what Joel and I talked about and it's working you know well and that's why I to this day I you and I work together very closely you know about six years ago when I launched this and I was doing some coaching and I just stopped doing because I didn't like it because I didn't want to I didn't have a big enough impact I'm sorry big enough pool of people and I didn't want to make money from people who weren't going to do what I told them to do and to this day to this day I get a Realtor® calls me every two or three days Bill how do I get started in probate real estate what do I do to build a niche and I tell them a couple basic things Step Zero is have your database put together so that step one is you can learn something about probate and then share that with your customers or share that with your prosect share that with your people like everybody wants to learn everybody needs to learn about things they need to do but if you don't have the database done Step Zero I call it then you can't and nobody wants to do it oh can I just buy

16:26 The data don't I can I just cold call well you can't that's just a miserable life like I don't know why you would want to do that but go ahead you know people s the data I guess it's just really one of those things it's because it's because they're getting into business and for the wrong reason they're looking at this business for the wrong reason this is a people business I mean technology you know I mean I don't know maybe this will haunt me but I don't see while we're alive that technology is going to completely replace what great agents do every day will it enhance it 100% will it make great agents have the ability to sell more houses and touch more people absolutely but that phone call that you know that I just heard someone talking about this I don't know what I was watching I say it all the time they said the same thing you know death of a family member divorce buying or selling a house top three most stressful things in life I mean people want people I mean even Bill there used to be a stat I don't know what it looks like now it was out of Seattle that you know the highest percentage of clients in the country that literally refused to speak to a human being was in the Seattle Market it was like 4.8% because of all the tech workers and they literally would only text and not even show up like you'd have to send someone to their house to get them to sign stuff like literally but even in that area 95.5% of the people you know when they're survey say no I want to talk to someone no I W I want to speak to a human being like I wanna I want to see someone there's too much going on here you know and I think that there's a lot of agents that don't really understand I mean Bill I've been saying this for years at the end of the day if you don't need hot tea with lemon and you're a real estate agent you have done something wrong you have literally done something wrong unless you took the whole day off that's fine but if you're working and you don't need hot tea with lemon at the end of the day you have

18:29 Failed you have not talked to enough people there's something is wrong you know don't tell me this oh I emailed a thousand people and went to lunch right that just that just I don't know about you I don't know any agents I mean yeah I mean I do know some agents that spend $200,000 a month on leads you know but they still have agents that are making those calls okay but I don't know any good agents that are not that don't buy leads that work will call by referral only that don't need that hot water with lemon every night I just don't talking to people all day long I mean I'm the same in that boat the difference is people call me rather than me have to reach out because I've built enough referrals and I and I tell real estate agents it's one thing to when you start out you want a call every day okay because you don't know that many people but maybe I'm not even big on that but maybe but if you've been in the business 10 years and you're still coold calling you did something wrong because all the people you talk to for 10 years you should be talking to them like call them back hey we've talked in five years have you bu any real estate if you buy any investment property you think moving out the area and so yeah there's people you could talk to all day long we all have databases we never finish through all of them yeah no it's there is there is you know whenever an agent says to me oh I'm bored I don't have anything to do I'm like no you didn't just say that to me because I'm about to give you 27 things to do you know you have you have plenty of things to do but I just think bill I think the market is getting better for agents because I think a lot of Agents bill I don't know if you know if you have any good stats but do we lose at least 35% of licensed agents over the past 18 months no actually what's fascinating is 20% leave and another 20% command and the number is about the same as it was a year ago it's the oddest thing you would sales are down 30% where our industry is in a depression and that sales numbers units are down 30 something per. Sales values are up about 4% so revenues down about 25 % in this industry but the head count is almost

20:32 Identical it's fascinating but the difference is I guess the head count is you're counting new people these are brand spanking new people the ink is wet on their license correct I'm watching experienced agents Bill and experienced loan people literally grow their business and take market share No Matter What Market they're in from you know LA or West LA which is unique and funky and tough and whatever to Pittsburgh to Kansas City to Providence Rhode Island to Orlando Florida I mean every different all over you know the market bill I think there's interesting things going on you know in 2025 it doesn't really matter who you voted for both sides of the aisle have on their agenda credit card company interest it's on there I mean if you've put $25,000 on a credit card and you make a salary of 60 or 70 grand a year you will never pay that off do the math you will be dead before you pay that off I mean that is egregiously high interest and I think there are things that are going to be going on and I'm not just GNA say with the new Administration forget about that because it doesn't matter who you voted for but with the new people in Congress and the Senate on that stuff which is just Economy based which is the number one issue for all voters number one issue you know the cost of stuff I think there's good things that are going to be happening we're going to lead in energy and when you do that it costs less to drive the eggs somewhere and the eggs cost less and suddenly your you know maybe your interest is capped at 12 or 13% instead of 30% on your Visa card whatever it is and people have a little bit more money now do they use that to buy a house because they've always wanted to buy a house I mean I read a great article Bill about four months ago that said if the interest rates dropped a half percent 5.2 million consumers would step off and say I either want to buy a house or sell my house or do something okay not to mention the 30 plus million Millennials that have stated you know just flat out I want to buy something I want to do

22:35 Something you know that have said they want to do something and you know we know there we know there are other challenges there's wages and all kinds of challenges and we also know everyone on this call we all know this even though the media won't talk about this and I don't even know why except for like Barbara Corcoran no one will say anything is that you know doing the math on you know paying $500,000 today and having a 7% interest rate and paying 550 in six months with six and a half you're way better off paying 500 at 7% it's very easy math for some reason the consumer either can't do that math they're not doing that math or they're they actually think the Market's going to crash and Bill for your for your audience here one of the big subjects one of the big things that I hear about all the time okay is math and if you're an agent and you can't do math okay you're gonna have a problem if you're an agent and you're not partnering with a Lo loan professional the correct way the best agents right now are getting people on the phone with their loan people at a 100 miles an hour you all cannot see credit they can the three big objections are I can't move I have 3% I can't afford to move at 7% and if I move where will I go I challenge anyone on here to give me the fourth one those are the big three those are the ones you hear all day long right I've been hearing this bill from Brokers not like just a regular real estate broker I know in California it's a little different from the broker record you know the guy or woman that owns the Remax Joel I think we're losing a lot of deals because I think my agents are not prepared to overcome those objections fast enough and they're trying and they can't and the people get off the phone and I'm telling agents everywhere you should have a deep relationship with a lender partner you should be bouncing that person within three minutes to your lender partner you should use this language everyone write this down this is winter winner chicken dinner okay I understand your objections I get

24:38 It I work with a residential real estate fi residential real estate Finance expert you notice how I didn't say the word loan officer or mortgage two scary words I didn't say either one of those words I would love you to talk to him or her and go through some of these things because I want to make sure that you know you're telling me you'd like to move if you could I don't know enough to help you with it but he or she definitely can and you know this is not a secret you all can't pull credit okay mortgage people can't all right mortgage people can see credit and see that someone has 50 Grand on a Visa card at 26% all right people think they have three and a quarter percent interest rate on their loan they don't if you have a bunch of Consumer Debt that is not your interest rate on your Consumer Debt at all that's wrong it might be closer to 5.8 when you're all done okay you're not paying three and a quarter you're paying 5.8 meanwhile you're in a two-bedroom house you've had two more kids you need a bigger house anyway you think you can't move meanwhile if you bought a house I mean you guys tell me I mean please I don't care what Market you're in I mean if you bought a house in 17 and refinanced it in 20 I mean Bill what have you doubled your Equity probably you could sell the house pay off all your debt put less down on the new house with a 7% mortgage and your total monthly payment goes down like a grand a month I mean it's just but agents it's not that you can't do this math you don't you can't look at someone's credit report you can't even see it and to be honest you know and Bill as someone that's Bill you've worn two hats you totally get this the best thing you could ever do as an agent is stay in your lane you don't want to be in that other lane let someone else be in that lane you stay in the down spouts gutters and you know backyard Lane stay the lane you're supposed to be in let your mortgage partner stay in that lane don't cross and that way you guys can always get something done Bill those are big subjects I talk about math all the time I've been talking about math forever but man if you can't do math you're gonna

26:42 Have a real hard time as a professional real estate agent going forward I think 2025 is going to be great Bill personally I think 2026 will be a banner knock the cover off the ball year I think the rates are going to play ball with us will be low sixes maybe even high five in 2026 and the market will explode I think the rates dropped a half percent right now they'll explode it will completely explode as long as there's stuff for people to buy you know I think there's a lot there to unpack let me go back and pull a nugget out on how everybody on this call can get some more business before I do that a little bit of housekeeping this Probate Weekly it's free sign up at Probate Weekly.com just put your email address if you want text from miners put your phone number in you can register for it if you scroll down you'll see we have all the audio formats link there as well as our past episodes on YouTube Welcome to check all that out we also continue the conversation on Facebook our Facebook group is Probate Weekly we have over 4,000 members feel free to post your content on probate and Trust related onto Probate Weekly to get more views likes interactions and all that stuff Rene does that does a great job Kevin as well does a good job and his podcast is where we can help you get more views likes Our Guest is Joel Epstein big jo.com he coaches mortgage agents across the country coaches real estate agents some of the top names I can't name them because I'm not authorized to let the names out but names that you would recognize he coaches real estate agents and big teams and so he's in this business there all the time Joel I don't know that you would know this necessarily but in probate real estate the opportunities that came to me was for years I was a residential agent I did mortgages residential sales and the nature of probates was there being a state where the decedent also owned office building and industrial building rental multi multiple multi-unit properties and in the past I said well I'm a residential agent I'll bring somebody else in on that and what I learned was well I know the probate so well the commercial guy knows nothing about probate so much of that transaction is

28:45 About the relationship and that once the attorney had trust in me to make that referral all of a sudden here it is two three years later now half my business is non-residential half my business is commercial industrial mul family land I know I followed your precepts so let's talk a little bit about how do you create trust in relationships so you can go deeper so rather than just be the residential guy you're the person that call when they have a problem in my case the problem I want them to call me about is probate or trust related litigation how do I get them to call me about the problem rather than somebody else so you know first of all you know that I like agents to not call themselves agents okay I like them to call themselves now bill I normally say residential real estate expert but in the case of what we're talking about you and I right now I would say all you know multi- resident multi- real estate expert I'd have to think it through be to cover you know to cover anything real estate related but it's branding yourself as an expert in all things related to any type of real estate it's being okay with taking a phone call and being on a call for a half hour where you don't sell anyone anything where you're creating such value that people say Hey you know you should really call Bill for that well why am I gonna call Bill about that what is Bill no you're gonna call Bill because Bill makes it his business he probably spends four hours a day being an expert on this stuff and Bill's not oh isn't Bill an agent is isn't he gonna be a pain and like try to get business from me whatever and he said no that's not what Bill's about yeah bill would love to if you have a building and you want to listy love to list it but let me know if that's how the conversation goes but I don't think it's going to go that way I think you're going to say hey I was referred by so and so and Bill's G to say how can I help you and he's gonna answer all your questions and that's GNA be that and so it's how your people you know Bill you've heard me do this before I tell agents all the time yes leave

30:48 Where I am right now call your best friend and ask how they refer you and make sure you have an airline barf bag on you because you're going to want to throw up when you hear how bad they are yes okay or how you know or what they say so it all really starts with people even really knowing what you want and really what you do and the best agents are experts period what Bill I said a little bit ago when agents have board I don't have anything to do I'm like go buy a tank of gas and go drive what do you mean drive know the neighborhoods know everywhere that's your job you're a real estate agent now listen if you if you have something 400 miles away I get it you're not going to know that market but any place you can drive to you should know you should be an expert you should know that there are Center Hall Colonials in this market and there are these kind of houses over here and there are these kind of houses over there you should know that stuff bill when it comes to what you're talking about if you want to play in that space know all the areas know the industrial areas know where there's industrial space know obviously it's a little easier to know where the big office buildings are but know where the know where the lower rise Office Buildings are I mean know the market understand the market it's your job is not to sit in your chair all day that's why I don't know where Stan went but you know I asked Stan he stood up and looked at his chair you're not supposed to be sitting your chair all day even if you're in your car driving somewhere to get out I mean you did not fail for the day if you went and looked it stuff bill you know there's a there's a h if they go to my site this is Ernie Carswell said this and it was awesome I have all these podcast interviews with agents and loan people and there's one with Ernie Carswell Bill who's in La okay I know you know the name and he talks about what he has new agents do and you will love this bill you should go and look at it's right up your alley he says Pick 10 properties and study them like you were going to take a test on them and so it doesn't matter who you're talking to you pick one of the properties you're an

32:52 Expert on and start talking about it you know what I mean other people's listings it doesn't really matter and they're like wow this person really knows so in your case Bill if you have someone that's spreading out into multif family or small commercial or light industrial or whatever and they're active properties listed I would tell your people be an expert on one of those properties so you could sit and start talking about some light industrial space somewhere where they're like oh wait that's not where I wanted to look or that's not what I went but they're like wow this guy knows right about these properties I just thought it was really genius and it's right along the lines of what you're saying right now well I tell agents all the time that you should subscribe in your MLS to keyword probate so you see all the listings that come up that are probate see your competitions doing what wording they're using the good and the bad what kind of properties they listing where are they listing them what pricing and then you can you can look at that property you also can open their probate case if it's on if it's online or available you see the case who was the attorney who's appropriate referee who was the advanced company that's all I just I started I didn't go to learn the properies of the expert I started to learn the cases of the expert you use a phrase that I remember I was working with you on your coaching program and you use the phrase with real estate agents they should be the experts on everything from the sidewalk to The Back Fence right and it hurt to hear this right it hurt to think somebody said call me about their tree falling I'm an expert in real estate and I know Pro why do I care about the tree falling and I tell the story I don't know if I told you this one Joel I think I have so I would call my I call my database I started with the A's I got to d I remember who it was it was an attorney he wasn't a probate attorney and as I'm talking to him I said hey by the way I've been learning about probate avoiding probate if you know anybody who has problems those areas you know feel free to pass him on he said well this isn't probate there you go but she has a problem the problem was there's a question with the tipe with the lot line her she and her neighbor had a fight

34:54 Over the fence there was some damage the city blah can you help her out and kind of like the tree falling like GH right I don't know about lot Lions I mean I do but I called her on the phone I talked to a nice older lady widowed 50-year marriage husband passes has a six unit apartment building she say me can you come by and take a look at it like HH it's like the tree I don't care about the lot line I'm GNA drive to East LA and I go there and I walk with her the property spend about 45 minutes with a sweet old woman who's a widow now at the end of walking around the house and she showed me everything I listened to everything she just said to me you know what rather than fix it can you just sell the property for me I'm like yeah that was my listenting presentation yeah sure and the story is in there because I did a good job she netted about $500,000 cash I picked up the check at the escro office and took it to her house on a Friday afternoon in East LA with crappy traffic here in LA because I knew it' make her happy and she started crying and she said to me you know I've always went to move to Arizona to be with my sister can you sell this which was her residence and I said yeah sure why not I sold two properties and my entire listing presentation was yes because why so talk a little bit about from the sidewalk to the back tree what does that mean to a real estate agent so you know since we've been on this call Bill every single agent I'm gonna I'll make an assumption that everyone on here right now is a licensed agent even though they might not be but I'll just make that assumption that most your audience is licensed real estate agents since we've been on this call everyone has lost money and the reason you've lost money is there was a business opportunity that you could have had that you didn't have because your people that refer you didn't even know you wanted it or could do it the easiest example bill is let's use La for a second let's make it easy for a minute okay you're a licensed real estate agent broker whatever it's called in California you live in LA okay you know there's only so far you can go in LA to even take a listing because of

36:56 Traffic or whatever and your cousin's nextdoor neighbor that you've met every time the day after Thanksgiving when you're over at your cousin's house and everyone's drinking their son is going to go to Cal Berkeley for law school and they want to buy him a condo there okay now they know they think they know that you're a real estate agent and they think they know that you're a real estate agent in LA and they don't call you well shouldn't they have called you so you could call an agent up there make the referral and get a referral fee well yeah but they didn't even think of it that way because they just thought oh Bill's an agent in La he helps people buy and sell houses in La I mean what would Bill have to do with Berkeley they consumers there's no one thinks that way at all right okay so I would say agents leave more money and referral fees on the table every minute of every day than it's just it's ungodly the amount of the amount of money that they leave on the table but the reality of it is you need to position yourself as a real estate expert and the best way to tell the story bill is that you know you your people know what you do and you get an inbound phone call you know ring and you say hey this is Joel and I'm Joel the real estate agent this is Joel with Remax Joel with exp and someone says hey my name is Bill Gross and suszie Q told me to call you and I say okay how are you and I'm getting a little excited because I know Bill and maybe this is going to be a referral and this is cool and I'm doing the referral dance and they say you know you're a real estate agent right and I say well I'm a residential real estate expert you know anything having to do with the house I'm an expert in you know from the front walk to The Back Fence you know that's me what do you have going on they're like oh you know we need to have a tree removed from our yard and I say okay and they say but you're not a landscaper right I say absolutely not but I know lot plenty of really good landscapers can I ask you a question they say sure where do you live okay ooh there's a good one right well I live at One 123 Main Street wherever that is okay now of course because

38:57 You're a good real estate agent you know where that is and you say oh is it one of those Center Hall Colonials what is that over there oh boy oh exciting you chat for a minute I mean literally a minute no longer than a minute you say would you like me to have someone call you or do you want me to give you some names how would you like to do this they tell you and then right after you say this bill and we can get off this call after this because everyone should write this down and be done with it you say you know anytime I make a referral like this I love to drop by and make sure that they did a good job would that be okay of course Joel no problem okay so the job is done now you're standing in their yard St staring at a tree stun okay you want to get a listing where do you need to be the kitchen table right you are now at their house okay when they list their house if you don't list it bill you know how I am so I don't care you suck okay if you were just in their yard all right with them looking at a stump okay and with them so happy that you referred them I don't care if they list your house in list the house in a year or 10 years we all know real estate's a long game if you don't list that house you suck because all you have to say once they're connected to you there is hey are you good with me periodically keeping in touch with you know I have some cool things that I send out they go of course yeah no problem okay let that let that sink in the person standing in the yard is the one that gets the listing all right what an easy way to get in the yard if you never got the call you're not in the yard it's so particularly appropriate for probate where often the person calling you isn't at the house that they didn't live there the dece didn't live there they live often out of state out of the area and so they really even more appreciate you being to get by and so when they'll say something like well I'm looking for somebody to help clean out same thing would you mind have to go over and just kind of check on them make sure it gets done right you take a picture you're there with them with the cleanup crew or who whatever you're

40:59 In the property nobody else is in the property but you nobody else has pictures but you nobody else can show the property but you have such a head start you know unless you blow it you're the obvious choice to list the property so okay so that's the that's the that's the sidewalk to the backyard which is basically we going to be the solution for all things in my case probate people ask me I little yesterday you know what you do you want to that work well I don't do it but I know somebody who does I want people to call me if they have a problem I want my customers to call me about any problem they have in real estate I want them all to call me all the time yeah and Bill you know it's amazing how I'll ask the question you know who wants that call and hands will go up and I'll say who doesn't want that call and hands will go up and I'll pick on someone if I'm in a room and I'll say why don't you want that call oh I'm way too busy for that call I can't I can't take that call and then I'll say and then of course you know it depends on how sass I want to be you know how many houses did you sell last year that's Ultra sassy in a group I don't want to get crazy because normally it's they're going to answer four and I'm G be like yeah you got time for that call but if it's really an agent that's selling a hundred houses a year I'm gonna go okay you need someone to take a look at what you're doing all day because you really want that call you need to delegate a bunch of other stuff that you're you know that you're busy with because you do want that call and I want I want the you know some people say well you know customers get into probates with bad attorneys it's a problem no I want that because either a I can help the attorney be better with her customer or B I can help the customer navigate around the attorney or find a new one my job is to help somebody with a problem and I'm open helping both that's the Home Run is when you help both rather than just one to the other so home run there let's talk a little bit about because it's a time of the year that we do a little more networking whether be holiday parties office parties also you know may we taking people out people more open to take going out to lunch coffee attorneys by the nature a lot of people in this call trying to build business with attorneys by the nature are more likely to go out for

43:02 Lunch than any other group in my experience that's kind of the normal attorney business is you call them to go to lunch they generally say yes or in most professions they'll say no can you give us just kind of couple common mistakes people make on those kinds of meetings and maybe one or two tips that can help people be more productive so number one I wouldn't even call it now Bill do you know this person or did you cold call them no just you know like maybe I'm doing a probate where I know the seller and they happen to bring in the you know the attorney they picked or so and so and I'm talking to the guy on the phone about a couple things I might say hey by the way like to get to know you a little better we're be working together for the next year or so would you mind if we went if I could took out to lunch one day next week I would I would the first thing I would say is if you go to lunch dinner you know breakfast first of all breakfast is best always with all professionals but if they'll go to lunch that's fine you know no business spoken literally the whole time if you can do it zero that's brutal now I've been with you on coaching people who pay you a lot of money every month and they're like crying on the phone it sound it makes sense so describe why is that so important okay so here's the thing and this is this is this is deep this is the Dr Joel stuff okay if you're all bus business all the time then if someone doesn't want to do business they don't ever need to talk to you let that just sink in if they think you're all business all the time then if they don't have any business why would they take your call and this is a very hard concept Bill 3% of all salespeople understand this and live this concept 3% that's it the other 97% literally cannot they start to go like this they literally start shaking because they have to ask for the business because they heard some dummy say well if you don't ask for the business you're not going to get it I do not profess that I don't believe it I think it's crap I'll argue with anyone not on this call right

45:05 Now anyone wants to call me after I'll argue with you all day okay you don't they should know who you are and what you're doing okay what's more important is that you're building a relationship with the person and you're really getting to know them so they will take your calls and you can talk to them and they will take your call if they don't have business okay if people think you're all business then if they don't have any business they just send your call to voice now why oh Bill Gross is calling I got nothing for him why am I picking him up okay instead of oh Bill Gross is calling I can't wait to find out you know about his daughter's new job because you guys had a whole conversation about the other person's daughter's job and then your daughter came up and then that came up and whatever it's a very different thing now bill this is very hard for salese okay sales people are hardwired you saw your reaction play it back and watch your reaction you're like you went like this you actually went you know what I mean because it's very hard for people to sit and actually connect and not attack okay but the best people that do this stuff I used to argue with my old boss forever ago bill who's getting put in the mortgage Hall of Fame this Friday Pat okay Casey it's really cool and we used to start go Joel you could train anyone to sell it I'm like no you can't yes you can no you can't yes you can no you can't and I was the no you can't guy I'm like you can't sell anything to anyone they buy when they're ready okay you can't if you shove it down their throat it doesn't really matter those are always the worst train transactions there are they buy when they're ready oh I need to do something I got to call Bill not I'm going to do it because Bill called me okay those almost always go wrong all right so you need to be in front of them when they're ready to do something okay but lunches are for connecting you when you walk to your car and they walk to their car the only thing they should be saying is wow I like that guy Bill Gross he's a cool guy it sounds like blah whatever about him they learned okay they shouldn't be walking away going oh yeah bill seems like the best probate agent there ever is okay well then the only reason they want to talk to bill is if they have probate business for Bill the bottom line is wait a minute we

47:09 Don't just want business for Bill from that attorney we want that attorney telling other attorneys to call Bill right we don't just want what that attorney has we want that attorney telling 10 other attorneys oh you gotta call Bill so you know agents are always focused on Deals did I get a referral did I get a deal from that guy I'm like no stop who did he tell to call you and they go what and I go uhhuh but it's the way everyone's coached and trained Bill you've been through it all You've you've seen everything you're you know you were you've seen sweat Hogs with Mike Ferry I mean that's aging both of us okay 35 38 years ago you know whatever it is you've seen it all you know it's really you can do business that way but that is the hard way so if you're going to be in front of people you're main goal is to deepen the relationship when you're there okay I'll give you one simple thing you're talking to someone on the phone okay you're talking to someone on the phone you're talking you're talking you're talking and you hear a dog bark I don't care what you're talking about I don't care if you're about to get a $10 million listing for a multif family apartment building you stop in your tracks is that a dog yeah what kind of dog you got a doodle really how old three years what's the dog's name biali oh that's a funny name oh the dog bark all the time no and then right back to the $10 million listing the next time you talk to that person if it's quiet for more than a minute on the phone's you literally say where's bii and they go what they're thinking to themselves what is going on here I'm on the phone with this business guy that I do business with he's asking me where my dog is the only people that ask where the dog is are his cousin his mom his kids his spouse there the only people asking those questions okay so where does that put you that puts you in the Inner Circle immediately all right and by the way this is not

49:12 Some hokey crazy thing you heard what I said I want to know about the dog I like dogs I want to know I'll talk about his dog for 10 minutes and then go back to the go back to the $10 million listing I could care less one of the greatest things you could ever do in one of those lunches Bill greatest things you can ever do is someone sits down bill you and I sit down and I'm the attorney and your bill okay and we're sitting down at I don't know we're getting sausages how about that and we're sitting down and we sit down and go bill I say Bill what a timely lunch this is so awesome I literally just got off the phone with someone can you handle these three things for me I've got this person that has this and this I need all this stuff listed I need you to call over here can you do this I got this client for this and you look them in the eyee and you simply say Bill we should almost end with this because it's beautiful you say wow that's great I really appreciate that where did you guys go on vacation for Thanksgiving literally you don't even mention the business then you wait all the way to the end when you're getting up and say oh I totally forgot do you want to give me that guy's phone number and I'll take care of it now those of you on this call that can do that will be very successful it is one of the hardest things for hardened criminal salespeople I'm talking Mainline cons people that are in jail for murder okay literally to be able to do is literally say this guy is about to give me $20 million worth of listings and I blew it off to talk about his vacation for an hour and then came back at the end and got the info yeah those of you that know what I'm talking about are smiling right now I can't see you those of you that aren't I really want you to listen to me and take it in because this is what the best people do because that person walks away from that lunch bill walks away from that lunch or I walk away and I'm like I like that guy that guy's awesome you know that's I'm that is literally what my thought is not that guy's gonna do the most bang up job

51:14 Ever I'm already assuming you're great at your job that's an assumption that's already assumed right but I'm like man I love that guy that guy's great I that guy went to the same place in Mexico that I go for whatever oh his daughter same age as my daughter he's got a grandchild whatever okay that's where it's at that's the goo bill that's the goo and that's what is very hard to teach people I have to teach it trench warfare that's why I'm you know I work with such a tiny percentage of people it's why I you know get paid the way I get paid or whatever because it's a niif fight to teach people how to do that you can't you know watch some video and figure that out that is that is a lot of in internal fortitude to be able to do that but the people you work with make a ton of money which I would translate create a lot of value for the customers which means they compensated working very reasonable hours and primarily doing things they like to do you have salese who enjoy now I don't enjoy playing golf for example I just I to me that would be a living hell going on a golf course for six hours but there are people who love playing golf and their job is they go out and play golf every day with somebody different or a couple people were different and there are people that shoot guns every day I think range that's my people that play pickle ball they do whatever they're doing with their clients what whatever it is their friends their Partners their referral you're 100% correct but this is people that understand their job is to connect their job is to make you know a new best friend and you know B I'll leave you with this because I know we're looking at the time right now but you know what are the two best sales techniques everyone get a pen everyone always gets this wrong Bill's not allowed to answer because he already knows guilt and sympathy and they are both attached to emotions are attached to a relationship if people has have no feelings towards you they can't feel guilt or sympathy they can't say oh man I feel really bad Bill should have had that business right I can't believe this

53:19 Person has that bill should have had that I love bill right big concept for people to understand gu and sympathy that's it well look I think that we've covered a lot your system is I think holistic and that it all kind of fits together and needs to be kind of consumed and adjusted to over time and so definitely worth watching going to go to bigjoel.com is his website he has podcasts he has interviews he's done there a lot of top real estate agents a lot of top mortgage people any speak engagement schedule here out in the west coast in particular I'm going to be I'm in I'm in San Diego first week and I think the last week of January I think I'm in LA but I it's all private client right now there might be one agent big teams that hire him as a coach and so you guys got a chance look behind this CR a little bit to see it I'll tell you this bill you know I've been doing agent Crush you know I don't love doing it because a lot of the agents don't show up on time and make me crazy but you know if you if you have a group you know of your crew that are Bill Gross people we can put something together you can discount it you can be on those calls with everyone and we can go deep on everything we talked about today it's a we do it in h 12 weeks it's a three-month class and you know we go deep and I would be glad to do that I don't know if that page is up on my site right now it might be disabled because I didn't want to do it anymore but I do I always have agents asking for it's just called Agent Crush right and we could certainly do something for your fans if you want you just let me know well if you guys let me know reach out to me and we maybe put a group together but I want to say we talked about in under an hour material his CR program every week is a different one of these topics expanded in detail there a lot to uncover definitely worth checking out his YouTube channel his podcast Joel obviously a longtime personal friend thank you colleague thank you success coach of mine mentor of mine thank you for being on today and helping us learn how not just to do more business

55:22 But I think to do it in a way that we'll enjoy more and will be better for us in the long run so thank you so much all about all about hourly rate bill it's all about your hourly rate that's exactly right and are you having fun thank you everyone have a good holiday and for ring this is Probate Weekly.com we do this every single Thursday at 9:00 am live we live stream it on to YouTube as well and then we record it put on YouTube LinkedIn all the various channels so if you're interested I'm at Bill Gross probate on social media or Bill gro.com look forward to seeing you have great holidays we'll talk soon bye