Organizing and Preparing an Estate, with Dina Braverman

0:01 Welcome to the Executorium podcast. I'm Bill Gross, your host at Bill Gross Probate and Social Media. We get together and talk about introduce you to different vendors on the Executorium website, which is designed to help executors through the process of managing estates, trusts, probate, estates, and such. and there's a whole list of types of people and types of vendors. One of them is somebody who's going to help you when it comes to what to do with the stuff that's in the property inside the real estate organizing it, different concepts, different designs. And we have here in Southern California a I say master or mistress of that job I've had on my podcast in the past. Great lady I recommend highly Dina Braverman. Dina, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me, Bill. It's good to see you again. And Organizing Concepts and Designs Inc. out of Encino, California. Give me kind of a high level overview. What does your company do? So, we are professional organizers and we specialize in several different areas. Residential organizing, office organizing, estate sales, estate clearing, staging, and estate sales. And so, this is mostly you're helping people who are in and have a bunch of stuff. What do I do with it? I need to be more organized, more productive, more aesthetically pleasing. Is that part of it, too? Yeah. And I think a lot of what we do is designed to help with functionality, accessibility, productivity, efficiency, right? We're not We're there to help people figure out how to get better organized to make their lives less stressful.

1:42 Now, how often are you dealing with somebody who maybe is the executor of an estate or trustee where somebody's passed and they have a house full of stuff and they don't even know what to do to get started? I'm going to say about 50% of my business deals with either the probate attorney, a fiduciary, or an heir. Right? One of the one of those people are always reaching out for what do we do with the contents of this house? And the clue for those watching those executors is this is who the professionals work with. You may not find them on your own. She may not be looking for you on your own because she prefers to get referred by fiduciary attorney. But here you have a chance to find the one that fiduciaries attorneys and Realtors® like me would pick to do the business. So let's talk about what's that phone call look like? What's the problem they have that they're calling you to help solve? So, and it doesn't really matter who is calling, whether it's the attorney, the fiduciary, the real estate agent. They're calling me because they have a house with a ton of stuff in it and they're not quite sure what to do with it. Should they sell it? Should they clear it? Should they donate it? And how does all of these options work? And one of the reasons we do as many things as we do is because we wanted to provide a one-stop shop for a potential client because it is an extremely overwhelming and stressful situation to begin with. So if they have one contact who could take care of it all, they're happier and less stressed and everybody involved is is just happier.

3:20 So I think what you're saying is before you even get into trash disposal, before that clean out, before that securing valuables, there's finding the partner to help you put the right plan together to make all those other things work properly, effectively, and cost-effectively. Correct? Because in any of these situations, right, there are so many options. First of all, most people, even the professionals, even the attorneys and the fiduciaries don't even know that some of these options exist. So for my company, our model is always without fail on any job, no matter what kind of job is sell, donate, toss. So first we try to sell it. What assuming that they're going to keep some stuff, the sentimental items that the family or the heirs want. Once that's removed, we could sell it. We could donate what can't be sold and we can throw away what can't be donated. So, we don't really want to throw a whole lot of stuff into landfill. We want to sell it. We want to offset the cost of our services by giving the client money for their items, whatever the may be. Now, it may not always be an estate sale because an estate sale is not always a viable option. if you live in a condo or a gated community or you know a town home or if there's a time frame, you can't have an estate sale. So maybe some things go to auction, maybe consignment, a liquidator. there are some private sale in the in the gated communities and any other place that have an HOA that don't allow a traditional estate sale. We could do a private sale. So there are so many options that people just don't know about. And I think that's the key is that typically executors or administrators will focus in on one or two solutions and look for reviews and go online and not realize that the best choice is to start with empty slate and

5:23 Say what's what's what's the best solution for this particular case and design something that fits there. It seems like every it seems like every time two things are true every time I've been involved with you or anybody who does this kind of work is one it always changes what you think it's going to be till the end like it you know what sounds like we're going to sell and make a lot of money is well at least we sold and covered our expenses because we found certain things weren't as valuable as we thought they were or there wasn't the market for those things. Well so that's a really good point Bill. So a and my job really my main job is when I meet a client or prospective client is to manage their expectations because everybody has a different idea of what they think their stuff or their loved ones stuff is worth. Sentimental value does not count. The only thing that counts when you're having a sale or considering a sale of any kind is value. Fair market value. What is this item, whatever it may be worth in today's economy, in today's market? So, fair market value, right? So, just the other day, I had a client who walked me through the house and he pointed out one item and that item was a painting. And he said that he had an appraisal for $75,000. But people don't realize is that the appraisals are done for insurance purposes only. and their the prices are jacked up because they want the insurance companies to cover that loss if there is indeed a loss. So, we don't want to see appraisals. That painting when I went and did my research actually sold a year ago for$10,000. And so, I immediately called him back and I said, "It's not $75,000, it's 10." And if you get somebody to tell you that they can get $75,000, they're lying to you. Or take it. Right. Take it. But it's not possible you know because we all have the same the same things available to us the same research available to us right you can go to eBay you can go to Amazon you can go to the you can go to the artist right there are many places you can

7:27 Go but certainly my job is to manage expectations and one of the things that I tell every single client unless they have a signed Picasso or a bronze or an airte or something that is exquisite and exceptional is that the average American household, the best you can really expect from an estate sale is you make some money. You pay some money to clear it out when it's finished because there's always stuff left over at the end of the day and the house is clear because that's where the value is. The h the value is in this is in the property. It's in the real estate, not in the stuff. Yeah. And getting it done quickly. I think sometimes people wait spend a lot of time playing around. Again, personal items are important, seminal items important, but from a financial point of view, to spend weeks and weeks and weeks to get an extra $300 to $5,000 out of an estate sale is probably unlikely, but more importantly, you're dealing the sale of maybe a $2 million house makes no sense economically. And agree, that's where I think you have to look long term. One of the things you mentioned with staging and I have a debate regularly with real estate agents. love to get your opinion on this one. this is gonna be on the internet, so you can you can say you don't want to answer if you don't want to. I feel like real estate agents overplay the value of staging because it makes them seem more important and that the money spent typically won't increase the net sales price positively. Now, what I'm not talking about is clean up and I'm not talking about safety issues.

9:02 The house has to be accessible and safe. and that way, you know, you can show up, you walk through, you don't want insurance issues or problems. But that necessary putting in furniture, putting in things that you have to rent and pay for and moving costs doesn't increase the sales price for more than expense on average. What's your sense on that? So, I'm not a real estate agent and so that's a tricky area for me, but I will tell you a few things. Number one is we don't do staging where we bring in accessories and or furnishings. The staging that my company does is strictly making the house, like you said, safe, accessible. We take Yeah. So, we take all the personal items off the counters, off the shelves. We make it look good. We take what the client has already in the house and we make it look better. Sometimes we'll remove a chair. We'll remove furniture because sometimes it's too crowded. But we don't ever bring in stuff. We always take out stuff. Got it. That said, there are homes that are, in my opinion, are better shown empty rather than what the client had because sometimes it's too dated. And then there are these very high-end homes that require the staging. However, you know, that could be $10,000 a month. There are new ways of staging digitally, virtually that are working for many real estate agents that I work with. And that's a that's not inexpensive, but it's less expensive than 10,000 a month.

10:38 Fantastic. It's a great alternative. And you know, sometimes you need it like sometimes, you know, the house needs a paint of coat, a paint of a coat of paint. Sometimes it needs a little lift before you can show it. So, I'm not opposed to that. But, you know, spending 10,000 a month on a on a on a house under a million dollars for what? Like, two things I would add to that. One, digital staging is great. I had a property once where the backyard pool the customer insist on keeping it empty. He wanted me to fall in the pool and drown. I said, "Yeah, but if somebody falls in the pool, they're going to get hurt. That could be just as bad or worse." so but it looked terrible. So I had the digital photograph just looked like a sparkling blue pool and we put some chairs outside look great. and the other thing is I met a company in the San Gabriel Valley. It was a Remax franchiser who owned a furniture company. And so what he did was he had clients who he would agree to stage for free if they had the listing. there certain criteria and then but they had to cut the list price by like 5% every 30 days to try to sell the property but they also would sell the furniture the houses so he was using the listings as like a free showroom okay well that's a different business model that's a whole that's not staging that's selling furniture for you but that's interesting input and so you use the word staging but I think what I would substitute when you say staging most commonly is more clean up and prep and tidying up straightening app, right? Getting the property ready so that a real estate agent can take their marketing photos. Yeah. You know, and whatever, you know, sometimes it's a lot of work and sometimes not so much. It depends on, you know, the client, you know, they could be very minimalistic and they could be, you know, hoarding. and so depending on what we see is depending on how much work there is to do. But my job is to get it ready so you guys can take your

12:40 Pictures. So just some housekeeping real quick. Our guest today, Dina Braverman as the proprietor, founder, operator, owner of organizing concepts and designs and the website is organizingconceptsanddesigns.com and there's a picture of her as well as descriptions of the their work. This is the Executorium Podcast. You can go on to Facebook and continue the conversation, ask questions, have referrals, post referrals there. Love to have you do that. And Executorium is a service, Executorium.com, designed to help executors of estates and trusts be more effective, more productive, and give them the resources to be effective productive. We have a directory of providers as well as government resources. And then this is great information, articles, and learning both for executors to learn as well as for professionals. This is great information to share with your customers. On the website, if you go to the directory of service providers, you get a choice by county. This is LA County. And you see we have quite a few resources. Appraisers, donation companies, estate auction companies, estate cleanup companies. There's our guest today. If you click on that, you'll get her full listing here in the Executorium website and description and her contact information. And again, these are people who are specifically focused on reaching out to executors to help them with their business.

13:57 Whereas oftentimes you'll find other services are oriented towards strictly to consumers. Dina is one of those companies I would say is best in class and normally is kept busy by his professionals and so you can find them by taking advantage of this Executorium community. So D, let's talk let's talk about the business side because executors are also going to look at other vendors along the way. what do you find? You've been in business a while. I forget how long. I want to say 15 years now. I was going to say 15, but you look about 18 years old. That doesn't really work, right? so 15 years. you've worked with different vendors, Realtors®, attorneys, fiduciaries that have succeeded. You work with some that have fallen down. What are the common characteristics of those are the best that you work with and you've seen succeed over time? The most their characteristics, I think, going to look for if they want to work with a great attorney or a great accountant or a great fiduciary. What should they look for that person? I mean, you know, for me, I like to work with and I recommend to my clients the people who are straight shooters, the people that are going to really manage their clients expectations and not sugarcoat it like and not promise them the moon and underdel. I want to work with people who deliver what they say they're going to deliver when they say they're going to deliver it. And I have found that, you know, the people that I work with do that time and time and time again. And if they don't, I don't work with them because it's it's not only my reputation, but it's it's really not it's a disservice to our clients. So, I like to work with people who are reliable, who follow up, who care about their clients, who have a good reputation, and, you know, who respond.

15:52 I like the response. It's very important because it's high stress business. So, you're not just a business person in this space. I think the thing that attracted me to you in the beginning, we were referred by a friend. I think my friend's wife and you are close. that your heart's in this that you do this. My life. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit. This is not just a business. It's been a nice business for you, but this is really where your heart is. Yeah. I mean, as a little girl. I mean, I was never officially as a child diagnosed with OCD, but my parents early on knew that there was something going on. And thankfully for me, the way it manifested was in organizing. When my outer world was out of control, my inner world was uber organized. And so I parlayed that in not even knowingly really into a career in the legal industry for 30 years. That organizational skill that I had that was I was born with helped me thrive in that industry because everything is a deadline. Every minute of every day is a deadline when you're when you do litigation. When I transferred, when I segueed into organizing, I thought, how can I take my personal crazies, my personal stuff, and my corporate skills and make this work?

17:19 I never ever anticipated that it would turn into what it has turned into today. It was just a passion project. It was something that I wanted to do to help people again be more efficient, more successful, more organized, better organized. And I realized after the first six months really that it wasn't a luxury service that it was a very necessary service because there are so many people out there that may be organized but for whatever reason can no longer do it whether it's age, disability, busy schedules, kids taking care of their parents, moving whatever the case may be. We have found that our services are not are not a luxury. They're a necessity. And so I'm just thrilled that it turned into what it turned into. And that the need is there. You know, the baby boomer population is probably the largest population right now. And they all need help on some level or another, whether they're moving or trying to age in place safely. or passing away and their heirs need help. They don't know what to do with all this stuff. It's it's just a great service. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I'm still I'm pretty disciplined and still physically able to. And so what I do occasion do regularly on a Sunday is spend one hour organizing one spot, one clo like last Sunday was my shirts, suits, you know, and get rid of everything that I don't need, donate, throw out as appropriate, figure out what I need if I need to buy something. And I'm pretty disciplined on that. but I'm still able to do that.

19:01 I can see though it's harder and harder than it used to be. Carrying the stuff outside's harder than it used to be. right now it's still kind of good exercise but I used to kind of look down on older people who you know we would use the word hoarder and I just think it's so unfair because I can imagine 10 15 years from now it's a lot harder for me to do that clean up and is that some type of psychological imbalance no it's I'm trying to live a life and you only have so many hours in the day and physically so I think we have to you know think about the dignity of this process and being respectful and I think you really take that I think you really brought that to me when we first interviewed I had done another interview with a similar company to yours but they really focus on using the word hoarders and the psychological aspect of it and you never you've never really brought that up it's always been about organizing clean up people are elderly solving problems and I think you really come out with a heart that I really appreciate well thank you yes it's it's very interesting and I tell people all the time we all have the same 24 hours in a You need to use them wisely. But if you have children or grandchildren, you don't want to leave the stuff for them to do. It's not fair to them. Right. Right. You know, make the decisions while you can make the decisions about where you want your stuff to wind up.

20:21 Right. Right. Don't don't leave it to somebody else because you may not be happy with that with those decisions. Right. And I also think that at a certain point in time, it's it's important to re-evaluate, right? Less is more. We just we just went through this season of fires and floods and mudslides here in California. If tens of those thousands of people had less, this would be easier on them. Why? because their insurance claims are going to be a hot mess trying to figure out all the stuff they had, all the receipts. If they're not in organized, how are they going to come up with that information? How are they going to claim their what's what's rightfully theirs? How are they going to know what they what lost in the fire, right? Because it's just all so much, right? So, it's a good it's a good idea now to re-evaluate what you have and why. Yeah. I think you get attached also you get very attached to things and the pain is much greater. I think that when you have less you have less to lose. Exactly. Or maybe focus on things are important and keep them. So I know through my life I've had some big setbacks financially but at the end of the day my wife is alive, my daughter is alive. I have two lovely grandsons. You know it's the important things I've been blessed with. So I think you have to you know keep your eye focused on what's important and not to say it's not nice to have physical things. It's nice to have nice things but they're things.

21:45 Are not people. So, but also, you know, just because we have things don't mean we have to have those things in the exact same format as they were. Example, right? You've got boxes and boxes and boxes of photographs from your grandparents, your kids, your wife's family, your family, you have all these photographs and they're in a box in the garage or high up in a closet or in the attic. They're not doing anybody any good because no one's looking at them. No one can get to them. Why not digitize them? put them on a hard drive, put them on a CD, a DVD, I don't know, anything other than having 15 boxes of photographs. And now everybody that you love can h can see them and share them. So just because there are physical photographs doesn't mean it has to stay that way. And our job as organizers to help people figure out how can you maintain the memory maybe in a different format. Yeah, the photographs, you're so right. We took a lot of photos. We organize them. So like in our bedroom, we have a screen saver that has our grandkids and there times we'll just my wife will just sit and watch the screen saver of different pictures and it's pathetic. And the new ones go in there as well. We have it connected to our phones and then downstairs we have a similar screen. It's just amazing. Yeah. I have older pictures of my parents, my grandparents and their lives that we really need to figure out how to organize and put into that. And with technology now it used to be you to sort them all yourself. Nowadays, the computers will recognize the faces and organize grandma and your aunt, your uncle in a way that it helps speed up the process. It's not 100%, but it helps speed up the process, right? But if you're not techsavvy and you don't have the space or the wherewithal or the bandwidth to do it, you know, companies like mine have a staff member that that's all they do.

23:31 Like, you know, that's her one and only job. She doesn't do any of the other organizing. is only, you know, photographs, slides, real DHS, PC, all of that stuff. Wow. So, you know, and there's a whole organization of photo organizers out there that do this as well. So, it doesn't have to be us, but by all means, you know, they will consult with you and tell you what your options are and how long it'll take and how much it'll cost. And I just think it's the gift that keeps on giving. And that old bar mitzvah book from 19 in my case I guess 80 something has on their mom, dad, grandma, grandpa. Yeah, get the digitized. You can see it again. If it's stuck in the book, it's on a pile of books somewhere in the box somewhere in the garage. You 100% right. Well, Dina, look, you're a founder of information. I got going on and on. We got a little bit over time. I really appreciate your time. Again, Organizing Concepts and Designs, Inc. is the company. The website's organizingconceptsanddesigns.com. She's active on Facebook, as well as on Executorium. Thank you so much for your time as always, Dina. Really appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for having me. And for the rest of you, this is the Executorium Podcast. We do this once a week. We interview experts in the field like Dina who are helping executors be more effective with their estates management. Go on the Facebook group. You want to continue the conversation. Put questions, look for referrals, comments, and on this podcast as well. Feel free to up down, subscribe, like it, send me a question.

24:54 Any questions. As always, make today your best day