LGBTQ+ Estate Planning Issues, with Nick Garcia

0:02 We're excited to have today's specialist in the area of LGBTQ estate planning issues. You know, on one hand, the law is the same for everybody. On the other hand, each person has individual cases needs. And even in that category, there's individual cases and issues to talk about. Local attorney Nick Garcia is an estate planning specialist in the area. Thank you for joining us again, Nick. All right. Yeah, thanks so much, Bill. Thanks for having me. So, I think one of the things that you mentioned that's really important in your in your practice is the learning phase of your client. Like I said, on one hand, the law is the same for everybody, but your goal, I think, is to craft something specific that's going to be most appropriate for the individual person you're talking to. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that the one of the keys to being a good estate planning attorney is, you know, people really do not want to discuss the subjects of death and dying and complicated family dynamics. And I think that, you know, what I try to do is add a bit of a, you know, emotional intelligence to it. And really try and tailor it to what they're looking for and where they are currently in the process of planning. A lot of people come to me and they obviously have never done anything or they haven't looked at their plan in 20 years, you know. And so, I just do my best to kind of meet them where they're at and orient them to what I think would be of the most value to them.

1:22 Now, your practice personally is specifically on the drafting of the documents. You're not really the litigator side. So, talk about why that's your focus and why you feel like you bring the most value to your clients that way. Sure, absolutely. So, I used to be a litigator, candidly. And I have great respect for litigators, but ultimately, kind of like I was saying, I found that maybe my particular skill set was more geared toward, you know, having conversations with people that maybe, of course, we have an eye for the law and how they can avail themselves of certain benefits under the law. But, mostly it's just making it make sense for the client and speaking to them on somewhat of an emotional level, saying, you know, okay, I know maybe you're not particularly comfortable with, you know, your brother being involved in the plan or what have you. But, there's other dynamics that might affect people. Just kind of walking them through the practical applications of that is where I really find a lot of fulfillment and the clients seem to respond to it, too. One place I'm sure you wish you had the opportunity to subpoena people would be to get your client to finish the plan you've been working on and get them to finish it or even get started. They'll talk to you about it, consult with you, and then they get to actually take action. I'm sitting right now on an estate of $40 million of assets where the client had had a great plan drafted and he met a couple times but never executed it. Where's the sweet spot? Where's the difference between meeting with you, getting started, and when is reasonable reflection in and procrastination start typically?

2:53 Sure, that's a great question and particularly pertains to a lot of my clients. You know, I just tell my clients, look, I know that this plan is Ideally, I would like us to revisit this every couple of years, whenever there's a life change, what have you. But, I know that practically speaking, a lot of them maybe don't look at this for, you know, 10 years or what have you. So, I want them to take their time with the documents, really consider what works for them. And you know, these are important decisions. I don't want to rush people along. So, essentially, what I tell them is take the time you need, but I'm here to kind of keep us honest. I'm here to I want to make sure that the hold up isn't me. So, generally, I think I try and follow up with clients when they've been sitting on their documents for, you know, a couple weeks. Just kind of keep the ball rolling and keep an open line of communication, I think, is the most important. Now, I'm not attorney and I only see the worst case scenarios cuz my focus is probate or litigation where something went wrong type real estate. But, it seems to me that even a bad plan is better than no plan. And I think that, you know, as a real estate agent, not as attorney, I would say get them to sign something right away and then think about it, amend it as ideas flow and as you get around to it. But, often I have to try to say, well, that creates other complications. Talk a little bit about why just getting something done really isn't the right answer and why you would say getting it done right the first time is so important.

4:25 Well, I really don't think there's that much of a difference between getting it done and getting it done right. I mean, the difference in effort you're talking about is, you know, what? Maybe a conversation or two or a discussion with your family, you know. I think that I really try to just make sure that I don't really want to draft anything that I'm not going to stand by, you know. And I do think that there is room for, okay, let's get a bare-bones plan in place, you know. And if there's a particular timing restrictions, maybe they need this right away, maybe they're going into surgery. I have that a lot, you know, people will just say, let's get it done, let's get it done. And that's fine. But, I do want to make sure that it's a plan everyone is comfortable with at the end of it. And you're standing by these decisions. I really try and confirm that with the clients. In talking to you, looking at some of your writing, you talk about public enemy number one being probate. Now, I feel like if we could get customers to sit in the probate department for 1 hour, they would they would worship you. They would beg you to get a plan done. They wouldn't leave your office until it was completed. They'd sign everything you gave them because probate court is such a brutal process. So, talk a bit about why it's public enemy number one to people. Well, you know, I think it's public enemy number one because it is effectively an ineffective estate plan. It's something you didn't draft. It's something the government has drafted for you. Especially with the clients that I work with, a lot of times maybe there's particular family dynamics. Maybe they haven't spoken to who the court would deem their next of kin, you know, in 20 years or what have you. So, you know, probate I guess I should stop talking smack about probate because it's kind of the reason that I am in business, you know.

6:25 It's It's It's this horrible long drawn-out public expensive process that people don't need to go through. And, you know, if you're talking just a list of pros and cons, you know, a trust, you maintain your privacy, it's much less of a cost, and it's it's just so awful for family members, you know, when they lose someone. That's obviously bad enough. Everyone's grieving and it's it's a very emotional time. Add on to that, oh, you have to be in court by 8:30 and make sure that you're paying, you know, make sure that you're communicating with whoever's representing you and, you know, it's just I don't know. It's it's best to be avoided, of course. And I really wouldn't wish probate on anyone. I think once they realize they have to write a check for $347 just to file the petition, it's start like that's the beginning of it. They realize, oh, what is this thing going to look like and it's bad. So, Oh, if only it ended there, right? If only

7:26 Right, exactly. Like this is just the beginning. I can't tell you this is just the beginning. Like there's publication. You're going to ask me, you know, about the publication and what it costs. I say, well, you won't believe what it costs to run an ad in probate. I mean, I have a business. I can run, you know, ads on Google or Facebook for my business. I don't, but I know people who do for a lot less

7:44 [laughter] than it costs to advertise a probate which in a in a periodical nobody's heard of, hardly anybody really reads. It's just is the most It's just the most humiliating experience for people, I think. I agree. I mean, I don't know. Just having to go through Nobody wants to go to court, right? Except for us attorneys. You know, we're the only ones who ever really want to show up in court. And I don't know. Just the uncertainty of what asset is going where, maybe a certain asset has an emotional connection to a family member, but the court decides, oh, this other person's more entitled to it. Doesn't exactly make for a lot of happy Thanksgivings, you know. So,

8:22 [gasps] So, knowing your practice, you have a special emphasis or you actually do some additional outreach to the LGBTQ+ community. Talk a bit about the special cuz I see them as a practitioner real estate, you know, I see those issues come up from time to time. What do you see as the most important issues to pay attention to that are different to serve that community? Sure. So yeah, I do a lot of work with the LGBTQ+ community. I mean, I think that often these clients have unconventional or particular planning needs or maybe, you know, want to provide for a certain cause upon their passing or maybe they just want to work with someone who has a bit of a shorthand, you know, where they don't necessarily have to worry about getting misgendered or, you know, having their husband referred to as their friend. Not saying other people, you know, other attorneys do this, but it just kind of eliminates the worry. And so, I pride myself on being able to provide those services and fill those roles. And as to the particular issues that the LGBTQ+ community is facing with estate planning, you know, I mean, there's kind of a myriad of them. But, with regards to for instance, as we mentioned, if you go into probate, your property is going to go to your next of kin. Essentially, you know, that's what the court is going to decide if you don't have a plan saying otherwise.

9:46 And a lot of times there's a lot of people maybe don't have a connection with their family or they've fallen away or particular members of their family and would I'd rather leave it to their chosen family or you know an organization that supports a cause that is that they're passionate about. You know, I prepare a lot of estate plans for single people who are in the LGBT community and they've said, "Look, you know, I just want all of this money to be going to a cause I believe in." And you know, I don't necessarily want it going to my family cuz maybe they're already well-off. Maybe they don't need it. and so I think that the only real way to solve that problem for that community is through an estate plan. That's the only tool that is really given. I agree. So and a lot of times it's with partners, too. You know, the law is very set up to distinguish between married couples and unmarried people and probate works differently for those people. So if you want to provide for your domestic partner who you are not traditionally married to but you've been together for 50 years, you know, this is the instrument where you can do that. The case I see that's heartbreaking is you know, I'm not there to see the relationship, whether they call themselves, you know, a spouse, they call themselves domestic partner, or they just call themselves informally, but the one passes and the and the remaining party has been with them 20 30 years. They live in a house no different than my wife lives with me.

11:22 The relationship, you know, the finances are mixed. Their lives they, you know, people some people refer them as his wife, spouse, whatever. And absent an estate plan, they get nothing. And they'll say and I often hear, "Oh, but he told me he was going to provide for me." Or he told me that I would get the house. Or he told me that it would be split between me and the ex-wife, whatever. And the reality is, I mean, I'm not an attorney or judge, but I just from what I see is if it's not in writing, there's not a plan or a will even, but she goes will goes to probate and then there's other issues. But I just see over and over again, they get nothing. And it'd be the heartbreak of losing somebody that close. Even, you know, we've I've lost close friends that were heartbreaking. I can't imagine somebody I live with for 10 20 years and then to be told you have to be out of the house and you get zero. Yeah. I mean, you know, You don't even get tenant You don't even get tenant's rights. Like that that would be already some money and some legal rights. You don't even get that. Well, and then, you know, let's say the finances are mixed. Let's say that you're together on title or you know, you own a substantial amount of assets together. You know, when your partner passes, again, let's say your partner didn't have the best relationship with their family, then you're in this adversarial position where you know, again, you're grieving your partner who God knows how long you've been together. And then you have to kind of go back and forth with a family who knows how much how much animosity is involved in that.

13:00 You know, I don't know. It's it's just again, I really wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. And especially with how relatively little effort it is to set up an estate plan and protect yourself from this. Yeah, I mean, I look, I'm not in those relationship that relationship individually, so it's hard to always say, "Well, why didn't he do that? Why did he do that?" It just seems to me it occurs enough out of laziness or lack of understanding. That's why I've been on a mission to tell, you know, I'm a real estate agent. Get every realtor that I work with. We know if people have plans or not cuz they take title. And we talk to them about their house. We know how they hold title. We shop for houses with them. We know how they plan to take title. There's no excuse to own a house in California and not have an estate plan. Now, somebody says to me, "I don't need one. I have a will and it's perfect and I went through it all and everybody signs off on it." Okay, at least I asked the question. Now it's on you. But I just see over and over again and I see in particular and I think you're right about the animosity in that any relationship with un with unprocessed poison in it in probate comes out. Any brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles. But there's something unique about this particular scenario that it is just and I'm just in the middle trying to sell the house and it's just brutal how people want to use this as a as a stick to beat something that happened 10 20 years ago.

14:19 Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think you cannot separate the emotional aspect of dealing with the fallout of someone's passing with the legal aspect. I think that they're very often intertwined, you know. I think that I'm not an attorney, but I believe that that's that opposite sex relationships at some point can be interpreted like being married for certain areas of law. In this area, I believe in probate, not at all. Whether same sex or different sex, if you're not legally married, it's irrelevant. And I often find that the remaining partner assumes it's because of the sex that's the issue and it's not and that adds to their grief and to their pain, right? They're saying, "Oh, the law is not recognizing our relationship." Well, the truth is it doesn't matter what sex you are. If it's not in writing, the law really doesn't recognize it. That's not, you know, how things work for us. And yet people How do people not know that? I don't understand how that information is not clear. I know and you know, one of the one of the things that we first connected on, one of the things I know about you is that we share a passion for education in this stuff. You know, I a lot of my job is just having conversations with people and saying, "Look, you know, I You don't have to work with me as an attorney, but you do need an estate plan." You know, I'm kind of imploring you to research this because I think that maybe you think you're protected and it's based on a misunderstanding. Right. You know, and California is one of the few states where we have registered domestic partnerships. You know, they exist and they carry almost identical state rights to marriage, you know, community property and intestate succession, etc. But you know, a lot of a lot of my clients think that registered domestic partnerships are, you know, like marriage light essentially. And in California, that's mostly true.

16:16 However, for federal estate taxes, you know, they could be hit with massive tax bills that, you know, a married couple, traditionally married couple, wouldn't necessarily face. Ouch. So there's

16:28 Think about that one. That one That one would be fun. There's a distinction, right? Between you know, the where the state is involved and where the federal government is involved. And again, people don't think about this. And I understand how people can feel one way or the other about how the law should be, but here's a case where it doesn't matter what the law should be. You can write your own law in your estate plan and then you solve the issue. It doesn't matter what the other person is. Registered domestic partner or spouse, nothing, girlfriend, boyfriend. It doesn't matter. If they're in your estate plan to get whatever or not get whatever, they're going to get whatever. That's just how it works. Why would people not take advantage of that? Well, and I also think this is kind of the great unifier, too, because, you know, no matter what side of the aisle you're on politically, you know, you're very conservative, you're very liberal, nobody is trying to give extra money to the government. No. Nobody is trying to all of, you know, this net worth that they have worked their entire lives to accumulate. Oh, yeah, let me just go ahead and give a certain percentage of it to the government to decide you know, I mean, why not start paying more taxes, right? You know, it's

17:36 [laughter] same thing. So no matter what your political leanings are, you know, nobody wants the government to be making these decisions for them at the end of the day. It is one thing to think about death, but it also as we've lived longer as a society, we have more and more people who are healthier longer yet have mental issues. Of course, you can also have accidents and become incapacitated. So talk a little bit about the special challenges of unmarried or undocumented relationships. I went through one. My I have an aunt who was divorced and in her in her settlement, she received a from a very wealthy man, a huge amount of money as long as she didn't remarry. And so she kind of remarried about 40 years ago, but they never married because she didn't want to give it up. So they we called him Uncle Barry anyhow, but he you know, I don't really know what was going on when I was a kid. Now I came to realize they were just living together and not since legally. Well, it was great until she's in the hospital and they need access to some insurance question and he didn't have the policy and he couldn't access her bank account to find out who the insurance company was because he wasn't her spouse. So all of a sudden this relationship that was just like being married in every way and we all appreciate him like he was married, it's not that way. And I imagine you have even more difficult situations in same sex. Talk a bit about some of the issues that people have on capacity and medical issues, not even talking about when people pass. Sure. So you know, I speak with young people for instance and they'll say things like, "Oh, you know, I'm 35 years old. I don't really need an estate plan because I'm not going to die anytime soon." Right. And you know, obviously that's what people think, but I say, "Look, you know, the medical documents at the very least, you know, even if you're not trying to put together an entire estate plan, I really encourage you to at least do powers of attorney, financial and medical. You know, because you don't want to relinquish that kind of control to someone that you didn't pick. And so yes, to your point, if someone doesn't have a valid, let's

19:43 Say, medical power of attorney that names maybe their partner or their unmarried partner as the who can make these decisions on their behalf. I you know, I've seen things where the parents who are still in Oklahoma get a call that oh, your kid is in you know, a vegetative state or is has had an accident. Get here, we need someone to make their medical decisions for them. No idea about what their what current medical treatment they are receiving, no idea about what their lifestyle is and how maybe it I mean it's just a mess. You really where important decisions like your money and your health are involved. I guess I'll speak for myself. I really want to be able to select who is making those decisions on my behalf and who I trust to do them. Again, it's just kind of left up to the government or next of kin, someone who you didn't pick to decide who's making these decisions on your behalf. And again, at that time, the fight over who makes those decisions and how they're made, especially when you're talking different families and different cultures, it's just I see it is you know, again, it's it's tough enough in traditional situations, which is the more common case, but when you talk about, you know, you know, different very combinations of people, it is just ev- all the knives come out. A- a- and they start to forget about well, we're talking about this person who's you know, right? We're trying to take care of them. That's what this is about, right? We're not fighting each other.

21:15 We're trying to resolve a health issue. It's just amazing that the venom that comes out in these situations. And once again, I find that it is impossible to separate the emotional element from the legal element. You know, if I've seen situations where again, someone's had a partner for 20 years and they're unmarried. The parents are in the capacity of medical agent, they're making these decisions, and they say to the partner, you know, not only are you not going to be involved in this decision-making, you're not even allowed in the room. You know, you're not I don't want you around, you know, you corrupted my son or you know, what have you know, I There's kinds of different scenarios, but I just don't understand there's no valid reason why you would not take these steps if you knew the other side of the situation. If you actually had the education as you know, about what this goes into this, what it entail. I mean, it's the downside, it's so steep. I would say just like the probate hearing department, maybe you should book time for people at like Cedars-Sinai's waiting room and watch people fighting over this stuff cuz it is I unfortunately spent a lot of time with my daughters giving birth three times. My wife fought cancer and was there on and off over two year period.

22:36 So, I spent a lot of time there and you see a lot of life when you're in the waiting room medical, unfortunately, and there's nothing else to do but watch terrible TV. And then so, you see people and have these battles and it's like man, you could have avoided this by signing some basic papers. It's not complicated, really. It's all unnecessary, exactly. And that's kind of why I'm so passionate about it is, you know, I'm just screaming from the rooftops at people, you don't have to do It doesn't have to be this way.

23:00 It does not have to be this way. It is not Well, hopefully we're going to get we're going to get people to watch this. Right. You don't have to go with me. Please go with someone. You know, Yes. go do it. I can't even write an estate plan. I'm not an estate planner. So, I It's funny, I used to I had a couple different companies that offer free and/or very low price alternatives and I used to kind of advocate for them and then I found they weren't really giving the full service that that I thought they needed. We'll talk a little bit about what that looks like, but I wish I could just say, okay, use this one or this one or use Nick Garcia. I mean, I don't care who you use. Get a plan that is much better than not having one. I don't a bad plan is way better than no plan at all. It just it just is. Yeah, I 99% of the time. Right. I do of course hesitate to say that, but you are right.

23:43 Well, I only I meant to say you're a bad plan, Nick. I just [laughter] I just realized that sentence didn't work out right. I meant to even if Nick was bad, he's not, it's still better than nothing. It is. You know, something is better than nothing. But again, I think it is so if you have a good attorney, the attorney is supposed to be doing most of the work, right? You have the intake session, you discuss what your hopes and fears are, you discuss how you would like certain things,

24:09 Right. and then your attorney's job is to go over it, confirm with you, and make sure that it's all exactly what you're looking for and it's going to work the way intended. Right. You know, and that's that's on the attorney. You know, that's not necessarily on you. You're just supposed to be responsive. So, let's talk a little bit about misconceptions. I think one of the biggest ones I see all the time is, oh, I don't need a living trust or an estate plan. I have a will. That will avoid probate. Yeah, I think look, I'm not licensed in other states, but I think that is true in other states. California, it is not. No.

24:45 I will say again to your point about, you know, a quote unquote bad plan is better than no plan. Having a will is better than having no will, having no

24:57 Yes. action. You know, it does kind of inform the court, especially if it's properly executed and you know, you have your witnesses, etc., but it's not going to keep you out of probate. It's still going to cost you unnecessary money. It's still unnecessary stress. And it's not that much more effort to it's already one document, right? It's already the will. And so, just get the right document.

25:22 [laughter] Just do the rest. Yeah, just get a notary and you're good to go. And so, I tell people I can't give you legal advice, but here's what I can tell you. Your will not keep you out of probate court to sell a house. You're going to bring the will to probate court. You're going to go through the whole process as if you didn't have a will. The only difference would be there would be some provisions that would change it, but yeah, that's a big misconception. the other one that deals with LGBTQ in particular is people believe that their partner, whether be there doesn't matter, same sex, different sex, no sex, 10 sexes, their partner of long time and feeling like their spouse will be afforded the same legal protections as a spouse. True or not true? completely untrue. Completely untrue. Say it again. Say Just say it again. So, I'm not giving legal advice, but you can say it in California, completely untrue. Completely untrue. A lot of people will say, you know, a lot of people have seen Legally Blonde and they'll say, oh, I know that if I am in a relationship for 10 years, it's a common law marriage, you know, and I say, that's a movie and that's East Coast, you know, that is not how we do things in California. There is no common law marriage, any of this stuff. It's it's something that you consciously have to enter into. And so, yeah, definitely untrue. I'll say it again. the other one is that you have to have a certain asset threshold in California to have a plan. Now, I can see where below a certain point, you don't own a house, for example, then maybe a will and the basic document package would be sufficient. But the document package and will is like 90% of the work of the estate plan. So, on one hand, I'd say, yeah, you're right, you can get by with a will and a document package. On the other hand, why wouldn't you consult an attorney and get the right stuff? But at what point would you kind of advise people financially that they really should have a will I mean, an estate plan rather than just a will?

27:07 Sure. A full estate plan, as far as financial and medical powers of attorney, I say right away, there's no asset thresholds. You know, get on that. It's it's a very simple solution to a really huge problem. but as far the rule of thumb I have for people with when we're talking about a trust is are we talking about any real property whatsoever? You know, if we're talking about even a lot, an empty lot, you know, you definitely want to put that in a trust because that's a probatable asset. It's often people's biggest assets and they forget to put it into the trust. And so, that of course you go through probate Right. a public enemy number one. Go back to the top of the pod. If you're watching this, go back to the top podcast, rewind 10 minutes, you'll hear the whole that whole story all over again. So, two of the two of the areas that stumble people from getting to the finish line on protecting themselves as that I see as a real estate agent, number one is the challenge of funding the trust. I mean, the people go to an attorney and get a great plan put together. and it's kind of like buying a safe deposit safe box for your house. You put the will the box in your closet, you strap it down or whatever you bolt it to wherever. It's safe, it's great. You close the door. Great, I'm safe now. No, you need to put the things in the safe. talk a little bit about the process for an estate plan. How effective is it if you have the plan?

28:37 There's a pour-over will, which kind of provides some benefit, but not totally. Talk a bit about the importance of funding the program. I think it's incredibly important. as part of my plans, I provide funding instructions that really tell people how to treat every different asset. And I of course have to stress you can have this brilliant, beautiful plan with all of it the distributions how you would like and everything is absolutely perfect and going to work extremely well if you put something in it. If there's nothing in it, guess what? The trust is essentially nothing. It's just a expensive, you know, set of documents. And so, funding, I try and get ahead of that right at the top where real property is concerned at the very least, where I prepare a new deed for people and I say, look, you know, we're retitling your property in your name, but as trustee of your living trust. And that automatically funds it with the biggest asset. but I tell people too, we want everything to say the exact same thing. Not want any documents conflicting with each other, no matter who's holding them. So, if you're putting a financial account, let's say your checking account into the trust, which generally I recommend, checking, savings accounts, you want to go to your bank with the certification of trust, three-page document, and just say, "Hey, I'm trying to retitle my assets in the name of this trust." And that way everything says the exact same thing, the trust is funded, and there's really nothing to worry about with regards to funding the trust.

30:21 The bank as I see is important in my world because when somebody passes and the successor trustee steps in, there's some initial expenses, and if they get the bank account switched over, then they have that money to work with hiring the attorney or funeral costs or whatever. Right.

30:36 Versus if they say, "Well, it's just $10,000, everything else is titled, right?" That's great, but you know, sell stock in order to get money to analyze things. That's difficult, challenging, people don't want to jump into that right away. So, I even that bank account the day-to-day finances I think is really important to get taken care of. So, you prepare the real estate transfer, do you record it as well for them, or can you record that for them as well? Yeah, I absolutely can. it's a service that I provide. It's one of those things where attorneys and they charge extra and I say to customers, "For sure get them to do it." Why would you take Why would you take your most important asset, your million-dollar house, your [unclear] house, and the attorney gives you the documents and say, "Okay, now I need this gets recorded." Oh, okay, I'll I'll take care of the confirming title change my house, and I'll go down to the county myself and do that versus have an experienced person who's responsible to do it right and trying to do it right. Why would you not pay the extra How much more does it cost to have you record it for the customer? I mean, it's 300, you know. 300 bucks for your million-dollar house and it's done right. I That's when I hear people tell me, "Well, he's he was going to charge me $300 and it cost $60 to record." Well, yeah, that's true, but you didn't do it. I mean, I try not to mandate for my client saying, "Look, you know, you're going to pay $300 for me to record this." I try and give them the option, of course, but you're absolutely right. I mean, why would you trip at the finish line like that, you know? Anybody I refer to you, I'm going to mandate they do because it I've seen five times customers pull out books, beautiful plans, where the estate plan itself wasn't executed. That's one problem. Or the plan was Oh, yeah, we have a great plan. Oh, yeah, you got this all done. It's all signed, it's all recorded. But in the top of the notebooks was the letter from the attorney saying, "Oh, don't forget to get this notice Take it down to the county and get it recorded." And you go, "Well, it's still here, you never did it." [laughter] And then the other thing is that even if I trust them to do it, I say, "Okay, you know, you want to go ahead and do it." I have to follow up.

32:34 I can't sleep at night, you know, thinking that this trust might be unfunded or this house might be outside of the trust, you know. So, I think it just makes for a much happier family if like that.

32:45 Well, I will say I will say this as professional real estate agents, we have access to public records. There's no reason not to check. You refer somebody to a good attorney like Nick, and they met with them and they tell you it's all done. You know, you don't need the commission to go on public records and see did the deed get done. It takes usually the county is about 10, 12 days behind the recording, but make a note to check 3 days later. And I've made the phone call, "Hey, by the way, I noticed there's no recording with the deed. Are you sure it got done?" You know, and then you find out, "Oh, it was rejected, the attorney's paralegal never caught it or whatever." So, those are things where we as real estate agents I think have permission with our customers to check for their welfare, and that it is public record. It feels creepy unless you tell the customer, "Hey, I just checked public records, and I noticed I think it's really important to do and develop on." So, I couldn't agree more. Well, look, obviously you're passionate about this, and so am I. I really appreciate your time. I've gone a little over, and in your alley right I can't really afford going over very much. So, just kidding. [laughter] Just kidding, you're not supposed to offer your time for free, right? Yeah, you could say that. Right? I [laughter] just Yeah, I'm just kidding.

33:48 Thank you so much for having me. It was It was a lot of fun. No, Nick Garcia, it's been a blast. I you know, I know we've talked a couple times, and I definitely enjoy every time that I think more important I also learn every time that I that I talk to you. So, for anybody who's interested, ng-attorney.com is the website, and there you can find all kinds of information about him. And then down below, we have his contact information, email address, phone number. If you're listening to this on audio, don't have access to it, just reach out to me, I'd be more than glad to make the introduction. Great guy, I've seen him recommend to his clients. Nick, thank you so much for talking to I really appreciate it. Oh, Bill, thank you so much for having me. This is great. Thanks again. And for the rest of you, this is [The Estate Planning Podcast]. We get together every week, usually with an estate planning attorney to talk about how we can be more effective in planning the wealth and taking care of our clients. if I can help in any way, please reach out at Bill Gross Probate on social media. If you like this, like it, subscribe, send me a comment. If you're an attorney who wants to be on an interview, let me know as well. As always, make today your best day ever. Thanks so much.