Florida Estate Planning, with Attorney Jamy Barreau

0:02 Welcome to the Estate Planning Podcast I'm Bill Gross at Bill Gross probate on social media we do this every week to meet leaders in the field of estate plan across the country attorneys and vendors and other participants in the process I'm a real estate broker in Los Angeles California that works with attorneys and vendors across the country really excited to have today a friend of ours who's been on our other podcast we have Probate Weekly he's been a couple times but now talk about a State playing with this is Jamy burrow from Florida Jamy thank you so much for joining us thank you for having me Bill and if I remember last time I had the wrong part of Florida I used to live in Florida and the southeast part in Palm Beach County you're in Port St. Lucie correct Port St. Lucie about 45 minutes north of West Palm very nice and are you native there or how' you nip in Port St. Lucie Florida I am a Port St. Lucie native graduate of St Lucy West antonnio High School wow yeah and then so ended up leaving for St Lucy to go to school of course I went up to UCF for undergrad and then Barry law for law school but after law school I said wow I really miss home and you know I was lucky enough to land a position a on a firm back home and I've been here ever since how did you end up in you said you got positional fir how did you end up specifically in estate planning well you know I was lucky enough The Firm I started out with had you know a wide range of practice areas and the bulk of what I got to handle was commercial litigation contract drafting negotiation probate Administration and State planning and so I got a taste of a lot of different things but really you know the estate planning side of things really stood out to me the most so I kind of last on to that and held on to it for the rest of my career until today really and so if you were to

2:06 Kind of paint a picture or draw an icon of the most common kind of client that you work with today and then maybe aspirationally what you're trying to move towards if there if there's a difference what would be the most common client you're working with today and maybe what are you looking to move into over the long run well you know it's interesting because I had wholeheartedly expected to work with a majority elderly clients here in Port St. Lucie but it's interesting because it seems like my firm has attracted a lot of folks near my age so I'd say that the majority of my clients the bulk of them are typically on the younger side starting off their fam starting off their businesses and what they really want to do is make sure they Pro protect their legacy to pass on to the next Generation as smoothly as possible now as the firm grows I'm hoping to pull in more High net worth clients and kind of lean into them in addition to the clients I have now but that would be a little snapshot of the clients that we have here at the firm when people call you initially to engage you either asking questions solving sort of a problem or to actually hire you to handle them with their sa planing what's the most common problem they're looking to solve or the most common question they have that they need help with well you know so a lot of the folks that call they get a lot of concerns about avoiding the probate process right they either they had some family members that went through probate or they heard tell of this whole process and how you know expensive it could be and so really that's typically what their main goal is right they want to establish a trust or establish a lady bird deed to make sure that assets can pass to their heirs as smoothly possible and I have noticed an uptick of folks in recent in the recent months who not just want things to go smoothly to the people they want

4:10 But they also want to disinherit someone I'm not sure if it's because we're coming off of the holidays or something like that things keeping dinners it sounds like exactly I'm seeing a an uptick of people who want to disinherit their family members in particular so it's been an interesting few months what are some of the particulars I know California Love because I'm based in California I'm somewhat familiar with Florida I think there's some similarities and the principles are certainly the same but what are some of the dangers or concerns when somebody wants to disinherit a family member with a will as opposed to a more formal state plan what are some of the potential problems and what are some of the solutions to make that decision or Choice effective well you know what comes to mind is whether you want to put folks on notice right and so with a will here in Florida at least a will has to go through the probate process right so that opens it up to being a public on the public forum for folks to be able to witness and see whereas if folks kept everything in a trust for an instance and had that as a driving force of their state plan in that case they're not going to see that public forum right a trust is meant to be private unless of course here in Florida unless it's going to be challenged in court then that'll open it up to public the public forum so to speak so I think that would be a an important way that we can make sure that your plan is not only captured and followed but you know we can keep it out of the public eye and if you're trust so for instance if you're Trust is being administered privately that leaves less opportunity for those who were disinherited to come and start making a fuss so to speak I think that's the number one misconception certainly

6:13 In California and I think as is true in Florida as well is so many people think that a will avoid probate but the truth is the will is executed in Probate it's either you have a probate with a will or without a will but a will doesn't excuse you now in some states it does or some transactions it does but in California it doesn't at all and it sounds like in Florida neither so important distinction if you want to disinherit somebody and you want to keep a private perhaps a better option is estate planning but also aren't there some strategies as far as far as complete disinheriting versus giving them a limited amount of money at least in California I think there's such a concept that in a trust certain family members would be normally entitled to certain inheritance but to write them out entirely then raises the standard of proof versus if you give them a thousand dollars they get something out of it or is there such a concept in Florida as well I wouldn't say necessarily right there is a strategy out there a couple of strategies where it comes to disinheritance right and one of those is basically saying hey you know this person I'm including them in the will but or the plan rather and all they're getting is you know a dollar or $1,000 something small in comparison to the rest of the estate and then another school of thought basically says hey this person I acknowledge their existence but I'm making it clear that they're not provided for under this plan and the path you go really depends on a number of factors I tend to fall into the camp of full disinheritance if that's the true wish of the client that way you know we keep things straightforward without the least amount of ambiguity as possible that's what makes me happy at the end of the day so some quick housekeeping we'll take a quick pause here really fortunate today to have our guest Jamy Barrow legal it's

8:17 B g lfl so it's Bel legal for florida.com and on there you have a phone number Torrey number contact us button all information as well and also Jamy is available on LinkedIn a pretty robust profile and active member there as well this podcast is the Estate Planning Podcast I'm Bill Gross and we issue new episodes every week we also have a Facebook group love to have you come in there and ask questions post your estate planning related content there as well if you want to Market yourself love to offer that challenge you know Jamy when I look at your website one of the things I always tell people is when you're hiring an attorney you want to see that there specialist in the field that you're in even though the State of Florida or California well like in my case California gives me a license to sell anything that's real estate related in California I can sell houses land industrial buildings I can sell the Golden Gate Bridge if it's for sale doesn't mean I know what I'm doing in those other areas and when I go on attorney's website like yours I see right away when I look at practice areas this I recommend people to do and scroll down what is it I don't want to see drunk driving and a corporation there is some overlap certain areas I know family law and probate kind of has some State planing has some overlap but generally have state planning and probate Administration which is to me sting out of probate and unfortunately we're stuck in Probate other ways look at that and then what I would call Related niches that are important as well so for those watching that this is the this is the kind of website we look for when we make referrals of our clients or when we're looking for a opportunity to hire for these areas let's talk a little bit then about some of these niches that go within the state plan meaning I could come to you and spend money and we write this great plan but at the end of the day the plan's only effective if we administer it we execute the game plan properly and I think that's trust Administration talk a little bit about trust Administration strategies that you have for your clients well typically when folks come to me for trust Administration it's after the person who created the trust has passed away and now it's time to

10:20 Divvy up those assets and loosen or rather tighten up the estate and so on and so forth and so although in the State of Florida there's no requirement that you have an attorney help you administer in the state but it truly is a good idea right there's different deadlines and requirements you have notice requirements to the beneficiaries there are tax return requirements to make sure that the decedent's final tax return is taken care of and you know making sure to retitle assets and help you collect the assets that were owned by the trust or even still owned in the name of the decedent themselves and so all of this is you know a timec consuming process and you know it's best to have someone who's gone through that process before helping guide you through it so that you can make sure to dot all eyes cross all teas you know I also find that now I've in California I've been a fiduciary for certain clients and I also work with attorneys like you who do trust Administration and one thing I find is there are certain kind of common vendors you need from time to time that when you've done it a few times you have those already in your Rolodex when you're trying to find for the first time ever a cleanout company the estate sell company different Specialists it's you know it's work it you're getting paid true but it's work versus like any professional who's good at this has good vendors who know who they are who give them better service maybe better rates or better results as a results so that's why trust Administration is a big component let's talk a little bit about Medicaid planning now I'm in California we have in United States we have two types of Federal programs for medical care we have Medicare which everybody gets really automatically now when you're 65 when I was 65 I had good private insurance but at 65 the company could not write me because I had to go onto the United States Medicare program which by the way actually is very generous I have to say I pay less and get as good benefits as

12:24 My private medical care Medicaid is the means tested which means generally low income in California it's called medical that's what Medicaid is in the state of California is medical so in Florida Medicaid can you talk a little bit about Medicaid planning as a component of an estate plan absolutely and so just to Echo of what you were saying right you know Medicaid is needs based right so typically the standard the threshold before you can qualify is you have to have a certain amount of assets or rather you can't have more than a certain amount of assets and can't have a certain amount of income coming in right and so part and all of this is generally provided by the federal law right and what federal law says is that you are able to still qualify for Medicaid if you shift your assets a certain way right and how you shift those assets are also afforded for provided for it under federal law and so essentially there are different estate planning strategies that we can use to help people qualify for Medicaid right so let's say you make too much income per month to qualify well there's a special type of trust that we can use to kind of filter out the excess income so that now you can still qualify and there could be some sort of benefit on the back end with that extra in income as well and also you know for instance if your assets are too high or too many assets right we can create another type of special kind of trust to shelter those from being CED towards you know your limits to qualify for Medicaid right and now we this is all done under the purview federal law under purview of Florida law and all of this is disclosed to the Medicaid office of course but it's just a way that we can make sure

14:30 That our clients can qualify for these important benefits and some the benefits that you might not need but become extraordinarily expensive like you know end of life care and things like that and you know when I first heard about it I often thought it seemed unfair or somehow dishonest but you know as just to emphasize what Jamy said you're talking about this is complying with the law this is disclosing according to the law this is playing by the rules of the law and frankly most of us with money are the ones who pay the taxes to begin with and so to feel that as long as we follow proper legal procedure procedures and do it in an honest ethical way this is how the law was written for us to have the benefit of these services that we've paid for through taxes overall life and I think there's a lot of you know the lack of planning you know can be a very expensive decision I think that I'd rather have the opportunity to get those benefits and maybe turn them down if you don't need them versus not plan a real realize you have like lifechanging financial decisions that you may not like absolutely let's talk a little bit about the VA planning as a piece of estate planning now I'm not a vet but we are very vet friendly my wife's father was a retired military and my one of my partners in crime is retired from the naval service and so we really want to help where we can talk a little bit about how proper planning allows veterans to maximize the benefits they've earned while serving country well you know I think about it in a similar vein to the Medicaid planning right there are certain things that we can do to make sure that your assets are organized in such way that you could take advantage of whatever military benefits you might be coming your way and so what I typically tell folks is you know let's have a look at what your assets look like and let's have a look at you know what benefits you might be able to take advantage of and how can we make sure that you're employes in the proper position to take advantage of

16:34 Those yeah same thing I think and then lastly special East planning course there's a wide variety but it seems that this is becoming an explosive growth area I know here in California the number of children who have these needs I think relying on government programs is increasingly challenging and I think the tax laws and the planning laws have become more appropriate to allow families to make these kinds of plans I know one my best friends is a special needs attorney here in Los Angeles and they've found a way to invest into like a living facility that's like the first floor is commercial retail for anybody and the living above is just for special needs so it's amazing what people are able to do talk a little bit about special needs planning what are some of the kind of common use cases that come up in the process well probably the most common that I see is where my cents have a loved one whether that be their child or a family member or a friend that they want to benefit from their estate plan but the concern is that any inheritance is going to throw off whatever benefits they get in terms of their as related to their special needs and so what we can do in the estate planning world is create for instance a supplemental Needs Trust right here in Florida and what that trust will do is it'll make sure to essentially legally keep that inheritance separate from that third party that U special needs individual so that they can reap the benefits as a supplement to their benefits that they're receiving from the government so you know a lot of ways that we do that like I mentioned having that supplemental needs trust but what the benefit of that is right let's say the parent set that up for their child well now they can go and tell their family members and friends like hey if you want to leave a gift or inheritance to our child please just

18:39 Direct that to we've already set up a supplemental me trust just direct it there and now we can further Safeguard any benefits that child may get in the future so two of the kind of customer service questions I always ask which to me are the basics of blocking and tackling in your business on estate plans Maybe because I get involved in these areas the most as a real estate agent number one is the funding of the trust I don't know the exact stats I want to say I heard trust and ws.com only 20% of their plans ever get funded and I think nationally there's a number that's similar like 70 only 30% get funded 70% never get funded meaning it's like buying a safe deposit box and you'll put your assets in the Box you wonder why your house gets robbed you lose everything talk a little bit about the importance of funding the plan and then what if anything do you do to help maybe follow up with customers and make sure they effectuate the plan that you help them put together yes so you know you hit the nail in the head right so what I typically tell the clients is hey you know you came to me for a trust we built you out this amazing trust based estate plan but now we have to fund it right and it's simply because a trust can only control what it owns right so I think of it this way you came to me the trust I built you a car but now it's time for you to put the gas in that car right without the gas you're not going anywhere and so I do provide guidance to my clients when it comes to funding the trust but now you know there are there are certain you know Federal rules regulations what have you that make it a little difficult for attorneys to specifically go in and make the necessary funding changes right I can only do it up to a certain limit so I definitely give the clients guidance as much as I can on how to fund those trusts and also with any real estate we handle

20:44 Inhouse transferring real estate to that trust through a deed that's a big one I can't tell you any trust I've seen where the customer pulls out the fancy notebook with all the trust documents and there's the grant deed the attorney prepared for them and gave to them and just sitting like I is this a copy well no this is what he gave me well it's good that you have it but it doesn't really do the job unless you record it at some point in time so yeah that's a that's a common problem we have in California now it I'm sorry I me interrupt you but that's just such a common mistake that we deal with all the time and then you do that in house and many attorneys don't I think that's one of the distinctions one things attract me to you right away was you know I imagine not all customers want you to right but you offer that service many attorneys don't I think that's an important distinction that often gets overlooked by customers is you the job isn't done until it's done and you got to get in particular real estate recorded in and documented in recording and I also urge people particularly now make sure you get your insurance with the additional insured in the name of the trust some companies charge $30 fee to do that some do it for free it eliminates just one question from the insurance company or one potential Avenue of Defense but I think it's really important to do and for the Realtors® on the call this is your chance to be a service to your customers if you know they did a plan go online it's public record and check and see if they actually did record it if they do give your customer copy of the recorded deed they would appreciate that or give it to the attorney and let them give it to the customer and if they didn't you might want to make a phone call and say Hey Jo notice you had this great plan you met with Jamy he's a great guy and a lot of fun but I noticed that the proper is still in your name what's going on can I help you with that and so these are things where I think are important distinctions that don't I don't think you get a lot degree over that but I do think this is the this could be the difference that makes the difference for people absolutely and you

22:48 Know I can't tell you how many folks have come to me hey Mom and Dad they set up this great trust and then I have to break the news to them unfortunately you know there's nothing we can do with this right now right so I've been in many situations where now I have to go to probate even though the person did set up a trust right so we got to really remember we can set up the trust but it's very important to transfer things to that trust one of the other important customer service distinctions is what happens with the actual documents does the customer keep the only copy you know I know there was a time my father was an attorney and he had a partner who did wills and trust and there was a time when all attorneys kept all the documents in a vault I remember at his law office they had this fireproof Vault like a bank almost and then there's a time when attorneys didn't want to keep them did not want to keep them for liability reasons I think now with U more Advanced Digital Technologies their attorneys they have more advanced strategies so how do you help customers in this regard and what is kind your customer service approach with your with your practice absolutely so at my firm we of course help the clients with the signing of the documents and then we package the original documents whether that be in one of our branded folders or a portfolio and we give we turn over the originals to the clients with a flash drive of digital copies we hold on to digital copies here in our system and we don't charge the clients for that service or of course or at least we don't charge them any extra for that and basically we instruct the clients keep your documents in a very safe place right so if you want to keep it at home we encourage them to use a fire proof safe I have had clients use safe deposit boxes but I encourage them to have more than one person on

24:50 That box and I also encourage them to let their important family members or people know the existence of the plan right and where they might be able to get that information if ever they need to use it but yeah we're of course you'll find firms that'll vary right some will say hey we'll hold on to the originals but us we turn over the originals to the client but we do hold on to a digital copy just in case and there are many firms that for whatever reason won't hold on digital copies on purpose by their decision and I can respect people's approaches but I also you know have you know my customers interests in mind and I think I have the feelings of my customers and I know you know I know what's best for them I think having mult you know digital copies with the attorney as well and expecting the attorney to be able to access I just think that's a reasonable standard that most my customers expect I know there's a there's reasons pros and cons don't mean to be in any way disrespectful but can just say for the people that I deal with I think that they all expect the attorney has a copy and if you don't meet your customers expectations I think you're not really delivering the highest level service and so those are the two points I try to focus in on actually three the website how do you fund and follow up on the funding and the copies and or the originals and like I said I met Jamy early on and realized he hit all three of those points and I feel very comfortable referring people with FL Florida needs to talk to him now licensing you're in Florida but I think you also serve as a couple other states don't you I do yes so my original state of practice is Florida but I am also licensed to practice in Washington DC in Minnesota and last year as of last year we opened up satellite offices in those States wow congratulations and so I think that's important that in Florida particular we have people moving

26:52 Having maybe property they move to Florida establish a new residence but they also have property Maybe they didn't sell or their old business in your case Minnesota or Washington DC to have an attorney this in both those areas I'm sure you can prer and find attorneys in other states as well if need be but that fact you're admitted both those bars I think makes it really good for your customers okay well look I sure appreciate your time today I know I'm coming up on the end and because of the incredible fee you're charging me for this I have to keep it I'm kidding you're very generous your time I do appreciate that in fact let's talk about that for one Split Second you know I appreciate you've been so generous when I've called to have you on my podcast previously in this one talk about how that figures into your business development like what why are you so generous of your time I appreciate it but may share with the other attorneys might be listening how has that affected you with your business or affected you with your practice overall yes well you know me I approach so apart from practicing law I do have the privilege of teaching as an adun professor and I approach my prac practice as an extension of my ability to teach folks right so being able to come to the public and share whatever information I can I think that it hits two spots for me right one I get to get additional information and clear up clear out the weed so to speak of all the misinformation that's out there but two I get to Showcase you know what I do and what services I can provide for the community so it's truly a pleasure to get to join you and chat with you and I'm you know it's certainly my honor to do so but I think it's just you know it serves you know the community at large really well good well I appreciate that I think that's kind of the old school my father was an old school attorney I think that's kind of the old school mentality that your service the public and as a result you get business and that pays the bills but if you focus on helping people your practice is going to flourish and I've

28:54 I've watched it happen with you I know we called you when you started and you were more of a professional and now you're more of a practicing attorney in fact you're opening satellite offices all around the country so it's been fun to watch you grow as you've helped people on my channel and other people as well so Jamy thank you so much and just a again a reminder barel Lego is Bel legal for florida.com is the website if you go on there you'll see a phone number tollfree number as well as a button you can click to get more information about him and then obviously describes the details he's also very active on link in so you can find him there if you want more information this podcast is the Estate Planning Podcast I'm Bill Gross out Bill Gross probate feel free to join us we release new episodes every week but more importantly our Facebook group go there with questions referrals different states different Realtors® are TR in other states as well as post your estate planning related content there we'd love to have you there and support your business Jimmie thank you so much as always it's been a pleasure and look forward to talking to you again soon thank you for having me thanks everybody have a great week